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Question about the order of surgeries

Started by Anne_lifetrip, June 10, 2025, 09:04:14 AM

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Susan_Rose, Tills (+ 1 Hidden) and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Anne_lifetrip

Dear all,

I have been asking myself why is the genital surgery the last one. Please bear with me my thoughts, as this is a brainstorm...

From my point of view, no one else sees my genitals other than me, or whoever I let. For me, they are my main dysphoria element.
But to be able to reach this surgery, I have to go through other surgeries or more evident changes. But why?.

The reasons I get to identify are:
1. Once the genitals are removed, I will need HRT (for whatever gender I would go for, in my case, Femenine) for the rest of my life, so, no real reason why I can't start there.

2. I believe this might be the key reason...legally?. If unconscious, my ID gender is determined by my ID documents...but, once again, I can change my legal gender, but still have my genitals in place.

3. By medical transition protocol I understand that you need at least one year living with your selected gender, and have a medical professional certify it before having access to the Gender Reaffirming Surgery. I understand it as a failsafe so as to avoid regret after surgery and to make sure you are sure about what you want...but, once again, the justification is bleak.

So...Is there something else I am not reaching to understand?

Please, once again, this is just a thought that I have been having for some time now and I can't get it off my mind.
As you may understand...I am really looking forward to that surgery, but the time will come. In the meantime, I enjoy the process.

Thank you all.
Love :-*

Tills

Hi Anne,

Great post and questions!

There's a balance in this process between affirming one's own journey and not being encouraged into something self-harming. At times gender services have veered too far down the latter and have ended up as gatekeepers over something which it is not their right to control. On the other hand, and this is important, nor does any medic wish to encourage behaviour that is dangerous to a patient. This website would concur with that, strongly.

Now I'm not a medic and it's important from the above that you do have a properly qualified physician whom you can also trust to have your best interests at heart, which includes your gender transition.

With all of those caveats in place I don't see any reason why genital surgery should not come early on in the process, once you're sure this is the right step. What you would want to avoid in my opinion is a sudden crash out from testosterone, which you will lose with the operation, and into estrogen. That part of the change really does take a little while as these hormones are powerful things. Your body does also take time to feminise from estrogen but I too cannot see in principle why the genital surgery couldn't be earlier in the process.

Others may disagree and it's good to listen to their experiences on here.

Good luck with your journey!

xx
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Devlyn

Some of your statements run against the current protocols. Have a good read of the Standards of Care.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Anne_lifetrip

Quote from: Devlyn on June 10, 2025, 09:37:35 AMSome of your statements run against the current protocols. Have a good read of the Standards of Care.  :)

I am aware, which is why I have shared this post with all the respect and just as a brainstorm, not making any suggestion that it would be this way.
As I said in my introduction, I am a medical staff and am aware of the Standards of care...but as a medical staff I am also aware that coffee for all is not always THE solution, but the best solution to create protocols and standardization of procedures, which make treatments replicable and able to be followed.

Quote from: Tills on June 10, 2025, 09:21:06 AMNow I'm not a medic and it's important from the above that you do have a properly qualified physician whom you can also trust to have your best interests at heart, which includes your gender transition.

I believe this is the key to my answer.
 
Thank you very much!
Xxx

Devlyn

Ok, just making sure. The "one year in gender" thing stood out to me. Definitely no longer a requirement.  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

Allie Jayne

Anne, surgeries are a deeply personal consideration, and the order of surgeries is entirely up to your needs in terms of dysphoria disruption and other life considerations. The current WPATH Standards do not prescribe a year of real life experience, but there are still doctors and surgeons who haven't caught up. There is still a requirement for a show of commitment, and I believe this includes 6 months of hormones.

Honestly, I believe I could have avoided social transition and all the problems that caused if I could have had genital surgery to alleviate my key dysphoria trigger, but my surgeon followed the old requirements. Needing hormone medication for the rest of my life was a significant concern for me, and remains so given the global shortages we have seen.

You need to assess what is important for you, and how it may affect your life, and proceed guided by those considerations. Surgeries are a serious undertaking, and are not without risk, and I know a few transpeople who have had complications which have left them with lifelong disabilities, so surgeries should be something you need, not something you want.

Hugs,

Allie
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KathyLauren

In my case, genital surgery was the last one because it was my first and only one.  I needed it.  I didn't need or want the other possible surgeries.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate

Anne_lifetrip

Quote from: Allie Jayne on June 10, 2025, 05:12:00 PMHonestly, I believe I could have avoided social transition and all the problems that caused if I could have had genital surgery to alleviate my key dysphoria trigger, but my surgeon followed the old requirements. Needing hormone medication for the rest of my life was a significant concern for me, and remains so given the global shortages we have seen.

I believe I might be going through something similar in the social transitioning and it would be way easier if that surgery was solved. I have no problem with the 6 month HRT, but the requirements I have been told seem to be following the old protocol.

I an following @Tills recommendation and am currently looking for a practitioner that adapts to me. (I started after reading her post...I hadn't even thought about that option).

Thank you!  :-*
Love
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Anne_lifetrip

Sooo, update.  :)
Found another doctor and confirmed that it is not necessary and that those are the old recommendations, such as you told me, and that we can meet to review my situation and needs.
The only issue is that he is fully booked and we might be able to meet by September or so...but it is a complete change of relationship with the practitioner that is managing my case.
I am both excited, thrilled and scared...

Once again, thank you all so much!  :-*
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KathyLauren

Quote from: Anne_lifetrip on June 13, 2025, 05:41:25 AMFound another doctor and confirmed that it is not necessary and that those are the old recommendations, such as you told me, and that we can meet to review my situation and needs.

I am delighted that you were able to find a better doctor!  I hope it all works out for you.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate

CosmicJoke

I guess it's last for me because I found the social transition to be more important. I'm going to be brutally honest and even say that I don't know how I would feel about being a woman with a vagina that can't pass as a woman.

I think it's a personal thing for everyone but that's just my take on it.

Lori Dee

Quote from: CosmicJoke on Yesterday at 11:34:24 AMI don't know how I would feel about being a woman with a vagina that can't pass as a woman.

I think that if you are doing it for others, you are doing it for the wrong reason. In my case, I doubt anyone is going to see it but me (and my doctors), so whether I pass or not isn't relevant to that. I would like clothing to be more comfortable, and from a safety issue, I would prefer my anatomy to match my identification documents.

But from a general "passing" perspective, I refuse to alter my body just to please the public and ease their discomfort with me. If they have a problem with my looks, that is their problem. Something as serious as surgery must be done to please yourself. Everything else is secondary.
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete

Tills

Quote from: Lori Dee on Yesterday at 01:05:00 PMI think that if you are doing it for others, you are doing it for the wrong reason. In my case, I doubt anyone is going to see it but me (and my doctors), so whether I pass or not isn't relevant to that. I would like clothing to be more comfortable, and from a safety issue, I would prefer my anatomy to match my identification documents.

But from a general "passing" perspective, I refuse to alter my body just to please the public and ease their discomfort with me. If they have a problem with my looks, that is their problem. Something as serious as surgery must be done to please yourself. Everything else is secondary.

There's such wisdom in your response Lori-Dee. I hope many people will find encouragement now and in the future from such an important post.
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CosmicJoke

I think there's still a Standards of Care we have to follow to some extent. It's not as strict as the old one, but I think that exists more for the doctors providing hormone therapies and surgeries rather than the patients themselves.

Michelle_K

It was my understanding that the certificates are more for the insurance companies. Some even requiring two for each procedure.
That said, the surgeon doing breast augmentation may require a certificate that you have been on estrogen long enough to have full breast growth.
In my case, medicare considers the surgeries to be cosmetic, and will not cover any.

In a magazine long ago, a woman stated that her boyfriend doesn't mind her small breasts. She stuffs her bra to make herself feel better and her clothes fit better.
Michelle

Sarah B

Hi Anne

Your questions are solid and you are correct that nobody but you and your partner will ever see your genitals so public visibility is not a barrier.

Why is genital surgery the last one?
Genital surgery is not automatically at the end.  The current WPATH Standards of Care Version 8 lists six readiness points: documented gender incongruence, informed consent, discussion of fertility, mental and physical health review, about six months of stable hormones when hormones are desired, plus at least one surgery letter with many surgeons still requiring two.  They set no fixed order of operations, so once these points are met a person can move directly from hormones to vaginoplasty or phalloplasty without earlier face, chest or orchiectomy procedures.  This is basically what happened to me.

My genitals are my main dysphoria element
That priority is perfectly valid.  Guidelines allow you to resolve your most distressing feature first once the readiness checklist is satisfied.

I have to go through other surgeries or more evident changes.  But why?
No rule requires earlier cosmetic or gonadal operations.  The deciding parties are the surgeon, hospital and any insurer.  Surgeons usually want at least one surgery letter that confirms persistent gender incongruence and decision making capacity plus basic health requirements.  When those items have been satisfied, then a date can be offered even if you have not altered face, chest or legal documents.

HRT is lifelong after the gonads are removed so why not start with surgery?
Removal of testes or ovaries leaves the body unable to make enough hormones.  The body needs sex hormones regardless of whether they are testosterone or estrogen.  Starting HRT before surgery shows that you tolerate the medication and that risks such as clotting or bone loss are controlled before replacement becomes absolutely necessary.

Legal ID seems to dictate everything
Legal gender markers can be changed before or after surgery in many jurisdictions and hospitals rarely treat them as medical prerequisites.  Surgeons focus on clinical readiness not passport letters.

One year living in your gender role and professional certification
The old twelve-month real-life rule disappeared in SOC 8.  Some insurers or doctors still like evidence of social adaptation yet it is no longer universal.  What matters most is informed consent, surgery letters and hormone stability.

Is there something else I am missing?
Three practical items remain: at least one surgery letter (two if your surgeon or insurer insists); about six months of stable hormones, suggested unless medically exempt and control of modifiable risks such as smoking or uncontrolled illness.

I hope these points clarify in your mind what to expect or need to follow
The pathway is simpler than it used to be and you can tailor the sequence to your needs.

Looking forward to surgery while enjoying the process
I am Australian and my surgery was nearly thirty five years ago.  When I arrived in Sydney I would have booked the operation straight away but I did not have the money and the requirements at the time mandated a two year wait.  I had three surgery letters.  I changed my life around without realising I was completing the real life rule, passed immediately with foam breasts and by the time surgery came around, my own breasts had grown.

No other surgery was ever considered.  Once the calendar hurdle and finances were settled the operation went ahead and I have never regretted it.  Your timeline can be shorter now that SOC 8 has trimmed requirements.  Work with a doctor who follows the updated standards, obtain the letter or letters and genital surgery can be your first and only operation if that is what you want.

Ultimately it is up to the surgeon you choose who will tell you what you need to do before surgery can go ahead.

Update from your side
I am thrilled you have located a new doctor who follows the current guidelines and can review your needs even though the first opening is in September.  Feeling excited thrilled and a little scared is perfectly normal.  The detailed guidance above may seem redundant for your own path now, yet it remains useful for readers whose surgeons still work from the older protocol so I have left it in place for anyone who might need it.

Best Wishes Always
Sarah B
Global Moderator
@Anne_lifetrip
@Tills
Be who you want to be.
Sarah's Story
Feb 1989 Living my life as Sarah.
Feb 1989 Legally changed my name.
Mar 1989 Started hormones.
May 1990 Three surgery letters.
Feb 1991 Surgery.
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Gina P

Hi Anne,
  I totally get what you are saying. I always wanted to go to Thailand and get bottom surgery without anyone knowing. I could continue living stealth or at that point I could say, guess what and come out. Living as the desired gender for a full year allows one to get used to how society treats us and learn the subtle nuances of presenting as the desired gender. As someone who has done this, I now agree with it. You must develop a bit of an IDGAF attitude and be happy with yourself. Of course professional counseling is a great help. I had bottom surgery before any other surgery as this was my biggest trigger. The reward was well worth the wait. Be strong sister. A better life awaits.
Hugs Gina
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