Applying for a job

[Terra]

Ok, subway is nice and all, but I gotta move on. I have a lead on another job, one that works with troubled youth. It would probably pay more, look great on my resume, and be more fun. Problem is, My legal name is still a boy's name, but the name I gave the guy was my female name. I can't get the legal name changed for a few more months.

So here is my problem, how should I handle the legal aspect of my application? I feel I should put my female name on the resume and application, and come out in the interview if there is one. But is there a better way?

[lisagurl]

You SS# is also a give away. They can match sex and name and number.

[Terra]

The reason I can't change my name yet is the state's laws. It has a statuate of 2 years residency before I can petition for my name change. Longest limit in the entire US, but I might be able to use my parents for one year, with the other being up in June.

You SS# is also a give away. They can match sex and name and number.

So any job I get I will have to come out to even after my name change?

[tekla]

If you know the code (and its all over the net) the SS# will also tell you where and when it was issued.

You could use initials and put your other name in parenthesis.

A.B.(Mary) Jones -- something like that.

[SusanK]

So here is my problem, how should I handle the legal aspect of my application? I feel I should put my female name on the resume and application, and come out in the interview if there is one. But is there a better way?

Does the application have a place, usually at the end, where you sign to verify the information is complete and correct? If so, you should use your legal name or else face the possibility of not being considered, or being fired later for lying on your application, and you won't have grounds to appeal or sue.

I guess I would ask if you were hired as female, pending your name change, are willing to face the reality when the facts come out about your past and legal status? It's not likely an if but a when. If the HR folks are supportive, then why not ask them in the interview? You will have to come clean because they'll find out with a background check and the SSN name/sex mismatch. And you'll know in the first minute or so if they'll be supportive or not.

Just my thoughts. Good luck and give it a shot. You never know.

--Susan--

[Terra]

And I don't know about you Angel, but for me, with an hour long face-to-face interview
I think that they'd have a pretty good idea of my birth gender.

I just hope that their jaws don't drop within the first few seconds!

Renate

I pass, apparently quite well. My friends keep assuring me, along with things people do. For instance, I was out drinking with a friend, who had her friends with us. These other friends didn't know about me. They consistently referred to me as a girl, and one stopped me from going in the men's restroom, and told me I had the wrong one. So I know I pass, but that might be a problem in itself.

I think it will shock them more to find out my birth sex then my gender. But the biggest problem is I will be working with youth. So I need to make sure I approach this with caution. This could very well blow up in my face if I'm not careful. I can live, for the most part, in stealth. I want to keep it that way for now.

[Hypatia]

I have an interview with a temp agency tomorrow morning. I just got my hair done today and feel like I can take on the world. So that's my advice for right before the interview. Newly styled hair=self-empowerment.

[Ember Lewis]

I have a similar situation coming up soon too. I have to go do my internship before I graduate but don't have my name changed legally yet due to lack of funds. In one month I will have money to do my application and in 6-8 weeks I get my new birth certificate etc. So that should be just in time. I honestly don't know myself what to write on a resume if you haven't changed your name yet. But I do know working in the social service field most places do criminal checks etc. So they have to have your legal name, and what about references?. I plan to send a letter to the references I use to let them know of the legal change of name. But you kinda need that first to do anything. Working with youths is a social service sector job and all SSW learn about trans people as part of there curriculum to earn there diploma. So best advice I can give is to use your preferred name but mention in the interview that your legal name is whatever. They should understand, you don't want to lie or be misleading as they will probably check your background. I know it's not what you want to hear but it's all you can do till you get a legal change of name done.

[SusanK]

I think it will shock them more to find out my birth sex then my gender. But the biggest problem is I will be working with youth. So I need to make sure I approach this with caution. This could very well blow up in my face if I'm not careful. I can live, for the most part, in stealth. I want to keep it that way for now.

Somehow if you are hired, working with youth will cause problems when they do find out. It will only be a matter of time, and lying, especially signing the application, from the beginning won't help your cause. And while your immediate supervisor and likely the kids won't mind, going up the levels of management will mind.

Think about the situation if you're a higner level manager and you were just informed a woman working for your organization is physically a man (woman in transistion), and she lied about it on her application and in her interview. While your supervisor may want to keep you and may support you, they have to answer to their bosses and the organization.

It's a risk, and especially with all the concern working with youth, it's a bigger risk. Just be prepared and maybe be ready to approach the subject in the interview. If it's clear they're hesitant about your skills, then you have nothing to lose to test their reaction. You have the opportunity to learn how to approach employers. If it's clear they like you, then it's a choice, but one to tread lightly then and in the future.

Good luck and I hope you succeed and have a good job.

--Susan--

[gothique11]

*shrugs* before changing my name (due to lack of funds) I just explained to my employer what was going on. My employer respected me, and my name badge had "Natalie" on it. Just for legal stuff was my old name on stuff. I then changed it a couple of months after working, which changed without any issue.

--natalie

PS my resume has my female name on it, but the actual legal stuff, I had to put what was legally my name. For my last couple of jobs, I of course put my new legal name, but I also marked off the F on my applications -- although, technically I'm supposed to put M. Yet, my healthcare card says F, but drivers ID and birth certificate say M, sadly. Here, you can change your healthcare card with a doctors note that you're trans; but you have to wait until SRS to change the rest into an F (yet, if you're sneaky, you can lie and get your drivers gender turned into an F... I know a few who've done this, yet, most places are aware now that they can't change it without the SRS papers, cause the gov wasn't liking it, yet I don't know anyone who's been charged for getting their gender changed, although technically, it's fraud. *shrugs*)

The ironic thing is that with my legal government ID, I'm both genders, since my healthcare card is legal government ID. I *think* my SIN card (SSN in the states) has me down as Female as well -- when I went into the office, they had no clue what gender to put me at, and I believe they actually changed it to an F, yet the card has no actual gender marker on it. Just a set of numbers, and my name. The first number is where it was issued, and the rest is random based on an arthrogram.

Anyway, you may just have to tell your employer what is up. I know that it's not easy, but if your employer is decent, your employer will be glad that you are honest. Rather than them doing a check and finding out later that there's a discrepancy with your name and your legal name, and getting angry with you or thinking that you have a stolen identity and calling the police, etc.

--natalie

[TreeFlower]

The name they have in payroll has to match what Social Security has on record.  If they don't match you may have tax or pay problems.

I would think you are particularly well suited to work with troubled youth.  Unless all those youth are all one race and gender.  i.e. clones.  If you decide to come out during the interview and they hesitate I would mention that diversity in this job is important.

Id mention my legal name in an off hand way.  "By the way, Blarg Honk Honk isn't my legal name yet.  It takes a long time to for a name change to go through and I didn't want to miss this job opportunity.  Betcha they think you just got married.

Personally, I wouldn't tell them during the interview.  I'd wait until I had to fill out the payroll forms and then tell only my manager.

[Terra]

The name they have in payroll has to match what Social Security has on record.  If they don't match you may have tax or pay problems.

I would think you are particularly well suited to work with troubled youth.  Unless all those youth are all one race and gender.  i.e. clones.  If you decide to come out during the interview and they hesitate I would mention that diversity in this job is important.

Id mention my legal name in an off hand way.  "By the way, Blarg Honk Honk isn't my legal name yet.  It takes a long time to for a name change to go through and I didn't want to miss this job opportunity.  Betcha they think you just got married.

Personally, I wouldn't tell them during the interview.  I'd wait until I had to fill out the payroll forms and then tell only my manager.

I hadn't thought about the diversity for the youth aspect. That actually is a good idea, thank you.

But the only problem is that ALL my ID's are male and male names. If my male name was a unisex one, it would be different. This means my payroll forms will be with my male name along with my signature. I want to walk into this as a female, but I also want to do it in a manner that has the least chance of biting me later. Thus, I think the best course would be to come out to one or two people in the interview. Considering I know how paranoid employers can be that work with children, putting my cards on the table and being honest is probably my best chance. I think it would impress them, especially if they saw me as a female and I explain whats going on. The honesty might be the points I need to score this job.

So now the question is, how do I go about explaining this to them? Is there a point in the interview you all would suggest?

[HelenW]

I've been unwillingly thrust into the role of job seeker recently but my dilemma is a bit different.  My legal name has been changed, my DL has an "F" on it.  But, as far as I know, the SSA has me as male, still, and while I'm going to try, I don't think they will change it on the basis of my having had an orchiectomy.  But that can be dealt with after I get a job offer.

The thing that concerns me is this: How far back in my references should I go with copies of my name change to insure they don't out me?  The two employers before the last one have gone out of business so I don't think they will be a problem.  The one before that was where I worked before I got my university degree, I left them 18+ years ago.  I normally wouldn't worry about them but I think someone might call them since the others are unavailable.

Any help at all on this will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

[TreeFlower]

I would explain the name/gender thing towards the end.  That way I would have time to get a feel for the interviewer.

Interviewing is an art.  Back in the day when I was a consultant I was quite good at it. I was the interviewee for consulting jobs and interviewer for my consulting firm.   You can't plan how an interview is going to go.  You have to wing it.  Best thing is to present an air of confidence.  Like "I don't need this job.  I can have any job I want. I do this stuff in my sleep" ... and "if you don't hire me your really missing out on a great opportunity."

One guy I knew liked to think of the interview as meeting his new friends for the first time.

You are getting hit with stress multiple times, Once for the interview, once for the name, and once for passing.  Unless you are really comfortable with passing. Oh, and the stress of finding the place, worrying about being late, worrying about hitting the interviewers car on the way in (that happened to someone I knew),  the list goes on.  LMAO I just remembered one interview I had. It was over lunch.  I ate the interviewers lunch.  ooops  I got the job though.  We became friends and told the story for years.  Relax, most important thing is how confident and friendly you are. You can overcome a lot of negatives that way.

Best thing for you to do is to sit down with a friend and go through a mock interview or two. Maybe five or six. Take the interviewer and interviewees side.  I didn't get really good at interviewing until I sat on both sides of the desk.

Wear a business outfit, take a breath mint and talk loud and clearly.  I interviewed a guy once who whispered and had bad breath. I had to lean in close to hear him but his breath stunk so bad I couldn't.  It was a short interview.  Above all be confident, be comfortable with yourself and be yourself.

Oh yea!  Let us know how it goes.

Posted on: January 22, 2008, 12:38:23 PM

I've been unwillingly thrust into the role of job seeker recently but my dilemma is a bit different.  My legal name has been changed, my DL has an "F" on it.  But, as far as I know, the SSA has me as male, still, and while I'm going to try, I don't think they will change it on the basis of my having had an orchiectomy.  But that can be dealt with after I get a job offer.

The thing that concerns me is this: How far back in my references should I go with copies of my name change to insure they don't out me?  The two employers before the last one have gone out of business so I don't think they will be a problem.  The one before that was where I worked before I got my university degree, I left them 18+ years ago.  I normally wouldn't worry about them but I think someone might call them since the others are unavailable.

Any help at all on this will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

I've always provided names and numbers of people I've worked with as my references.  Of course, its common courtesy to call your references first to make sure its ok.  All you have to do is tell your references that you changed your name.  If its a problem for them then don't list them. Remind them to use the right gender when referring to you

[tekla]

As much as it sucks, it's always best to tell the truth, up front and from the start.  If all your legal documents say your name is X, then you have to go with X, and just tell them you prefer to be called Y.

As was said above, if this stuff does not match up, you can find yourself in some pretty bad situations with SS and IRS.  Also, in signing the job ap you are testifying that all the information is true, any finding that it was not is grounds for termination, and no unemployment or 'discrimination' suits on that one.  Its been upheld way too many times on the grounds that you never really got the job in the first place because of fraud.

Most companies, due to lawsuits they lost, will do no more than verify dates of employment, and maybe - maybe, salary.  So most references are personal, not corporate.  And if you don't know exactly what someone will say about you when called, for the love of god do not use them.

Also, any job that would put you in contact with children (under 18) is going to do a full criminal background check.  Many states require it, and if not a state law, I'm pretty sure their insurance carrier would insist.  The liability exposure is just too great as some cases have been settled in the millions and millions of dollars.  Ask the Catholic Church in SF and Boston where they are busy selling off churches to pay the settlements.  Any background check is going to find out all this stuff.

[cindianna_jones]

You need to be totally open and honest with them.  You may not get the job.  But there will be other jobs.  Unfortunately, this thing will follow us throughout our lives.

Take that box on many applications "Other names you have used."  That's a tough one.  If you haven't had all of your records changed for some time, you might want to be truthful and fill it in correctly.

Cindi

[Hypatia]

Oh, yeah, and I had to go and buy a Skype In telephone number so that they can call me.

Now that's clever. All phone interviews should be with Skype.

[Berliegh]

Ok, subway is nice and all, but I gotta move on. I have a lead on another job, one that works with troubled youth. It would probably pay more, look great on my resume, and be more fun. Problem is, My legal name is still a boy's name, but the name I gave the guy was my female name. I can't get the legal name changed for a few more months.

So here is my problem, how should I handle the legal aspect of my application? I feel I should put my female name on the resume and application, and come out in the interview if there is one. But is there a better way?

Print your female name on your CV when you apply for the job. Why do you need to tell anyone you have another name?

[tekla]

Well, because a) the name she wants to use does not legally exist, it does not match any established IDs (and she would have to produce two to be employed, and b) any job working with youth is going to do a background check.  But, any non-truth on an employment application is taken as a reason not to hire, or, when found out, to fire.

[SusanK]

Angel, there's a chorus to be honest up front, but also to maybe think it through where both sides can win, they get a great employee and you can get on with your life in the job. Ok? I was reading the responses and was reminded about the advice they give men with beards interviewing for a good job. Which is, shave the beard. You can also grow it back once you have proved your worth and show them a bearded man isn't a bad employee.

My point? As said, since all your official names and sex are in your male name, use that. Go through the interview as you are (female) but not as the name you will use. Let them ask about your appearance so you can judge what their view about you at that time, and then you can judge if you want to say this is and will be your appearance. If they're open, then you can judge if you want to be honest then or later if you get the job let them know you are transistioning.

If you get the job, this way they will have an investment they may not want to lose and you have a future job and life where both sides understand the situation. If they're uncomfortable in the interview, you can sense it or they will let you know with their words or lack of them. You can politely thank them and know you did the right thing. This way you show you're not confusing or lying to them and you are doing your best to be who you are.

I spent 14 years in senior (local) management of a large organization, 7 as a supervisor. Honesty always won my respect because I can judge with good information. And I learned to trust the employee and they learned to trust me to represent them fairly and honestly. And I always supported a good and honest employee through anything. If they can't do that, they're not worth working for.

Just a thought. Let us know what you decide and how it goes. Good luck.

--Susan--