Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

Applying for a job

Started by Terra, January 21, 2008, 01:02:41 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Berliegh

Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2008, 05:27:01 PM
Well, because a) the name she wants to use does not legally exist, it does not match any established IDs (and she would have to produce two to be employed, and b) any job working with youth is going to do a background check.  But, any non-truth on an employment application is taken as a reason not to hire, or, when found out, to fire.

In the U.K it's very easy to change your name and you can do it in an afternoon with a solicitor and not from my doctor. I did it very quickly and all my ID, driving licence and records were changed in a matter of days.
  •  

tekla

In the U.K it's very easy to change your name and you can do it in an afternoon with a solicitor and not from my doctor. I did it very quickly and all my ID, driving licence and records were changed in a matter of days.

Well, assuming that she in the UK, she should have, or should, do - or have done - that.  Its not all that easy in the US.  Depends on the state.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Terra

Quote from: tekla on January 22, 2008, 08:34:31 PM
In the U.K it's very easy to change your name and you can do it in an afternoon with a solicitor and not from my doctor. I did it very quickly and all my ID, driving licence and records were changed in a matter of days.

Well, assuming that she in the UK, she should have, or should, do - or have done - that.  Its not all that easy in the US.  Depends on the state.

Sorry, trapped here in this small Wyoming college town.  ;)
"If you quit before you try, you don't deserve to dream." -grandmother
  •  

tekla

So I thought (well not Wild, Wonderful Wyoming) when you wrote that.  Please tell the truth.  After all, if they don't want that, they don't want you.  And do what you must to change that stuff.  But remember, in this age, no records are 'private.'  Its time for everyone to come clean.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Terra

I found out another tip for the trans job seekers out there. Always know how far you have to walk to get to your interviews. Sometimes its just a little bit farther then you would have thought. ;)

Discovered my job prospect is about 4 miles out of town, plus the 2 miles it takes to get to the road out of town. On the downside, they didn't have any applications for me when I got there. The bright side is I got my exercise. :D
"If you quit before you try, you don't deserve to dream." -grandmother
  •  

Rachael

When i got my last job, I just applyed, went to interview, got the job, been working there since. never mentioned trans, never asked, so never told. People care less than you think.
R >:D
  •  

Audrey

Angel, where in wyoming are u?
Audrey
  •  

Terra

Quote from: Audrey on January 23, 2008, 02:24:30 AM
Angel, where in wyoming are u?
Audrey

Well I mentioned I go to the university, and there is only one in Wyoming. ;)

I go to school at the University of Wyoming, which has the infamous reputation of the Matthew Shepard incident. Btw, this year is the 10 year anniversary. This is one of the reasons i'm kinda nervous on how I apply for jobs.
"If you quit before you try, you don't deserve to dream." -grandmother
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Rachael on January 23, 2008, 02:12:00 AM
When i got my last job, I just applyed, went to interview, got the job, been working there since. never mentioned trans, never asked, so never told. People care less than you think.
R >:D

Exactely my point Rachael. From my own experiences of job interviews no one has ever asked me either. Besides how would they know?
  •  

HelenW

Quote from: Berliegh on January 23, 2008, 08:55:01 AM
From my own experiences of job interviews no one has ever asked me either. Besides how would they know?

If you pass, which all of us are not so lucky to achieve, the interview stage while being fraught with stress, can be navigated.  The problem then comes after you have begun your new job.

If one has not yet had vaginoplasty, the federal government, and many other state governments, in the United States will not grant a gender change in their records.  If you get a job identifying as female and the government has you listed as male, your employer is told of the discrepancy, outing you.  That's how they know.

Many companies will then sack you for lying when you applied.

Sitting on the horns of that dilemma,
Emelye
FKA: Emelye

Pronouns: she/her

My rarely updated blog: http://emelyes-kitchen.blogspot.com

Southwestern New York trans support: http://www.southerntiertrans.org/
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Emelye on January 23, 2008, 09:36:35 AM
Quote from: Berliegh on January 23, 2008, 08:55:01 AM
From my own experiences of job interviews no one has ever asked me either. Besides how would they know?

If you pass, which all of us are not so lucky to achieve, the interview stage while being fraught with stress, can be navigated.  The problem then comes after you have begun your new job.

If one has not yet had vaginoplasty, the federal government, and many other state governments, in the United States will not grant a gender change in their records.  If you get a job identifying as female and the government has you listed as male, your employer is told of the discrepancy, outing you.  That's how they know.

Many companies will then sack you for lying when you applied.

Sitting on the horns of that dilemma,
Emelye

It seems a very negative attitude in America and there seems a lot of emphasis on outing people. We don't have those kind of problems in the U.K and no one is interested. If I went for a job as a bloke they would think I was kidding them. It doesn't make any difference if you have had SRS or not (we don't have to have a strip down medical examination to apply for a job) and I am not listed anywhere as male. So again how would they know?
  •  

Rachael

Do you want to be female or a transsexual? Sort it aaaarrrrtttt!!

Its not the uk with  the atttiude, it just seems less of us are happy with being ->-bleeped-<-s....
and recruiters dont need to be deaf or blind... i went stealth at work, inc when i go the job, without trying.... i havent 'tried' yet...
the emphasis isnt on stealth, or deception, or passing, its living your life, and not being sattisfied till you live YOUR life, not some halfway  house....
Nothing less than victory :D
R :police:
  •  

Schala

You'd be surprised how many of those opinions when not being passable, judge someone as androgynous (ie, they don't know), and in many cases, that's why they stare. Gendering people is something people do automatically, at-a-glance, not something people have to think about consciously most of the time.

Now someone who's androgynous throws a wrench in those gears, they don't know, they're not sure. It could be a lack of clues either way, or heavily contradicting ones, clothes notwithstanding. Clothes can lead to confusion sometimes, but they're a smaller factor in the balance, because you can change clothes any time, and people know that (even if it's harder to visualize).

Hence why some pass easily in t-shirts and pants, while others can't pass in high heels and a skirt. Clothes are secondary in passing, they're the cherry on top, and its optional (not optional not to wear any, but to wear very-gendered clothes, like a dress or a skirt or a cute top is optional).

My point is, what people think when they stare is not necessarily "Ah, it's a man!", but "Is it a man or a woman?" most of the time, morbid curiosity (like an accident on the roadside draws) because it goes out of their experience, or they notice it for the first time.

Some decide either way, male or female, and some remain indecisive after watching longer. I caused indecision in people when I presented as a guy.

Some cues pointed to mostly female:
small frame
very long hair
soft features (soft skin, no roughness)
lack of body hair
lack of muscle
lack of a stuble (if I shave every day I look normal)

Some cues pointed to mostly male:
non-high-pitched voice, especially coupled with such a youthful-looking body (androgynous voice, who could pass as more mature and still female, or as male but young)
masculine clothes (very baggy t-shirts and pants, always in sneakers 'of boyish colors')
lack of much attention to hair-grooming

and that's at-a-glance, they didn't have a long conversation with me, they might have seen me walking down the street, or overheard me order something at a restaurant they're sitting at, or something

That was pre-transition.

Since starting full-time there was even more confusion, more staring...but over time it faded, after six months I fit in as just any girl, physically, no one could pick me out of a crowd, no one would stare. I 'lost' my physical androgeny.

Remember though, that confidence is one of the better things of passing. If you're confident, you'll pass better. Being scared or nervous/anxious draws attention to you and more scrutiny is applied. Such things easily overlooked otherwisely.
  •  

carol_w

When I applied for a job recently, and they called me for an interview, I was totally up front with them.  I told them that I was transitioning and asked if they would have a problem.  I was told emphatically, "No!".  In fact, the interviewer asked me "Why should it make a difference to anyone?".  Bear in mind, I'm not that passable at all (6'2", 50+ years old - the only thing going for me is that I'm a size 12). 

Anyway, I went for the interview in a nice top, skirt, and boots, with appropriate makeup.  I just presented myself the way that I am, and for the most part, I wasn't nervous.  No one gave me a second look - just lots of smiles and polite conversation.  (And my voice is BAD - all I can do right now is raise the pitch some...)

They called me back for a second interview, so I know that I "passed".  I had already decided to not pursue it any longer, but I have no doubt that I could have started that job as a transitioning woman - not a man.

I'm trying to make the point that, as long you're honest and display confidence in your presentation and at least make an effort to pass and "dress for success", that many will not have a problem.  I'm in a VERY conservative part of the U.S., too, in the heart of the "Bible belt". 

YMMV, though... but it wasn't a problem for me.

Carol
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Rachael on January 23, 2008, 11:11:50 AM
Do you want to be female or a transsexual? Sort it aaaarrrrtttt!!

Its not the uk with  the atttiude, it just seems less of us are happy with being ->-bleeped-<-s....
and recruiters dont need to be deaf or blind... i went stealth at work, inc when i go the job, without trying.... i havent 'tried' yet...
the emphasis isnt on stealth, or deception, or passing, its living your life, and not being sattisfied till you live YOUR life, not some halfway  house....
Nothing less than victory :D
R :police:

I completely agree Rachael. Nothing happens overnight and you have to work at it. I've been FT for quite a few years now and I would never mention to a future employer that I was TS. I doubt they would believe me anyway if I did.....

The whole point of a transition is to transition from one gender to another (othewise it's not a transition), not stay in some halfway house and be separate creature who is neither male or female. It takes work to get it right and if you want to succeed you have to keep working on the bad points you might have until they are eventually eradicated.

  •  

Rachael

EVEYONE can get it right... EVERYONE can pass iirc... ive yet to see someone who couldnt without either ffs, a new haircut, better clothing choice, or maybe makeup....
im not unsympathetic Renate, i just dont settle for less that perfect when it comes to my life.
R :police:
  •  

Berliegh

Quote from: Rachael on January 23, 2008, 06:12:30 PM
EVEYONE can get it right... EVERYONE can pass iirc... ive yet to see someone who couldnt without either ffs, a new haircut, better clothing choice, or maybe makeup....
im not unsympathetic Renate, i just dont settle for less that perfect when it comes to my life.
R :police:

Exactely, you have to work at it to get it right. I've also seen folk I thought who couldn't ever pull it off and then a few years down the line they have done it. As Rachael says it takes work and effort...
  •  

Rachael

hell, you've seen what i used to look like... if i can do it, ANYONE can
R >:D
  •  

carol_w

Renate and everyone,

I just was upfront with the employer because of the ID (name discrepancy) issue.  Because it was a bank, I just didn't want any problems to arise where they could accuse me of something.  So I decided to address the issue up front (why I would want to be called Carol on the job yet my legal ID would be <boy name>).

If I were post SRS and had already done the name change thing, TS would not be mentioned, other than that pesky line on the application "Names formerly used" or similar lingo.

Carol
  •  

Rachael

why couldnt you change your name PRE srs?
its only Gender you cant change in some places....
:P
R >:D
  •