My Interpretation of Why Jesus was sent to Die on earth....

[Jordan]

So there god was chillin right...

He had already made his angels, then a few angels tried to overthrow him right, he banished them including lucifer right.

Then he was all like well I'm gonna remake that creation but put them on another plane of existence right.

So humans were made right...

Then Humans messed up because the banished angels decieved them, And this pissed God off, but God was all like well it really was the humans fault so now I'm gonna selectively choose whether or not certain ones deserve to come to heaven.

what he ended up doing was the ones that he deemed "not good" enough were being taken in by the fallen angels, and more evil was developing and affecting more and more of the world.  He was like enough..

After a while he realized that it was truly his fault because he created us in the first place so he was like OK I'm gonna send a piece of me to thier plane Try my best to teach them about how to live better in life, but Ultimatly I am gonna let them all back into heaven.

So here we are today,

It is of my opinion that EVEN ADOLF HITLER is in heaven, he may have been a muderous tryant here but I believe that God loves all his children above and beyond what they did on earth, and that it only goes to show you once in heaven how amazing of God we have that he even loves his children who are the most sickly ravaged people here on earth....



My basis for this post is alright then why did God send Jesus???

I mean is religion trying to tell me that no one before Jesus came and died on the cross for our sins went to heaven???

That would mean Adam and Eve went to Hell,

What is your basis behind the words "Jesus died for my Sins" What are you trying to say that means, I mean in more than one way that has become Cristains catch phrase.... Do they even know what it really means...??

[lisagurl]

The placebo effect?

[cindianna_jones]

Please don't take offense, I just want to join in on the conversation.....

- Do you believe that your loving God, who can forgive a tyrant like Hitler, would get "pissed off"? 

- According to the gospels, Jesus suffered for the sins of humanity in the garden of Gethsemane the night before his crucifixion in prayer.  The pain was such that he "bled from every pore". No other mortal man could suffer this pain and thus, Christ was offered up to do so. This is where he "died for our sins". His corporal death came later on the cross. I think that Christians sort of lump the events of those few days all together to call them the "death" of Christ.  Hence we get the phrase "died for our sins".

Where does our resident pastor weigh in on this?

Cindi

[Jordan]

Do you ever get pissed off?? Do you ever forgive someone?


And Yes he died but WHY???
For our sins OK?? What was accomplished by dieing for our SINS???

[cindianna_jones]

Mara,

As I stated above, Christ physically suffered for the sins of humanity in Gethsamane prior to his crucifixion. His death was necessary so that he could be resurrected and thereby providing the path for those to follow.

FWIW, I am not really into religion these days. I know these things from a past life as a person I would not want to be friends with.  It might be said that I am much more a follower of Christ's teachings these days though.... hmmm. I'm simply trying to answer a sincere question about doctrine which I happen to know something about from years of study.

Cindi

[Jordan]

As I stated above, Christ physically suffered for the sins of humanity in Gethsamane prior to his crucifixion. His death was necessary so that he could be resurrected and thereby providing the path for those to follow.

That makes NO SENSE???

Regardless of Whether he DIED two day later or not, MY QUESTION IS what was accomplished by IT???\

your answer is so he could be resurected, and provide a path for others to follow???
rather empty answer....

[Lisbeth]

Anyone who pretends to know the answer to "why" is only fooling you.  Human cannot even begin to comprehend what motivates god.

[Jordan]

As I further agree, I am just looking for anybody who has a more practical view regarding this, rather than just accepting what was taught to them...

I just spoke with my mother who is a devout Christain and Minister/Missionairy, her view is that one must be a believer and accept God into thier heart to go to Heavan.

I call rubbish, I though God loved all his children, love that ultimatley will send someone to hell???

Further more the current theory is based on people having a "choice" of accepting god, further rubbish, there still exists people in the world who are isolated and have never met another than those in thier tribes, do they go to "hell"

I stand by the point that everyone regardless of actions goes to heaven should it exist.

BTW I am not religous, I do not consider myself Christain, I just was forced to go to church for 18 years of my life, and my mother is a Minister...

But it has always appaled me that there are such discrepencies in the bible context of religion that I seek to fill those holes while still preserving the Christain message.. Which ultimatly I feel is a good thing..

[bethzerosix]

ok... ill give it a go..

to get some understanding we first have to look at who god is.... or how god is. on the surface god is the creator of heaven and earth... but what are his quality's.. the bible says that god IS love. that god is holy, just and righteous.

lets start with holy.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holy
1: exalted or worthy of complete devotion as one perfect in goodness and righteousness.

the key is the ''perfect'' part. gods goodness/holiness is prefect.... without blemish, without sin. imagine an expensive white dress shirt.
now take sin(what sin is, is a topic for a different discussion, but in this example we will say sin is spaghetti sauce )
it only takes a small drop of sauce on the expensive shirt to ruin it. god can not take sin onto himself without compromising his holiness. even a very small amount. perfect = 100% not 99.99999999999999%

when adam and eve sinned in the garden they lost the ability to be with god. before, they would walk and talk with him in the garden. after, the were kept at a distance. (they were now dripping with spaghetti sauce.) lol

now lets look at justice. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/justice

in order to maintain justice, when a wrong is committed, there needs to be a punishment. gods punishment for ALL sin was/is spiritual/physical death. (we were originally intended to be immortal)

god didnt like that sin had separated us from him.... and he had a plan to do away with sin altogether.

ok... imagine a child is playing baseball in the street and hits a ball through a large picture window of his house. the child has no money to replace the window. maybe his parents make him work off the damage, but in the end it is the parents who will foot the bill because the price is too high for the child.

in the case of sin.. god decided to foot the bill because he knew that the price was too high for us. god had a rule(more like loophole) that said that one's sin could be transferred onto an innocent. this is displayed in the old testament sin offerings. god didnt think any amount of bulls of sheep or birds could equal a man in importance... so all the OT sin offerings were just a kind of credit until the ''final, complete'' sin offering was made. this offering had to be perfect... with out sin or blemish...  only jesus christ fulfilled this requirement. he kinda had the upper hand because he was god... so he was able to resist all temptation. he also had to fulfill the jewish law.. he said" i have come not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it". 

jesus became the sin offering for the whole world... for all time.   justice was fulfilled in jesus. through jesus taking our punishment and sins we can now approach god again... not as sinful but as clean... for he sees christ when he looks at us... but, and this is the most important part, only if we accept what christ has done for us.  thats the accepting jesus christ as savior... it is a free gift to us (but it cost god a lot) but it must be received.






Posted on: February 10, 2008, 05:54:50 PMalso... if one wants to have their life weighed in the balance then they have the best judge ever when it comes to god... but all of everyones faults were taken care of in christ.. so it is in everyones best interests to accept his gift...

[bethzerosix]

WOW... my weak post wanted to be like that!

exactly my views... well done ashley!

[Jordan]

I asked for an answer and i got a sermon, typical of most I guess...

[Suzy]

Beth and Ashley, that's some good stuff, thanks!

But I have a much simpler take on things.  Why was Jesus sent to die on earth?  To show us what a truly radical loving God we have.

Just think about it.  Who would want their worst enemy to be the one who saved them?  No one!  But that's the essence of Christianity.  It is not that we loved God, but that God loved us and sent His Son to die in our place, to be the means by which our sins are forgiven.  (see 1 John 4:10)

Think of it like this:  Suppose a redneck, homophobic, gun-toting Klan member is in an accident.  Along comes Rev. Bubba, who pretends to take a call on his cell phone and not notice him.  Then came Duke who just thunders by in his monster 4x4, his Confederate flag whipping in the breeze from his pickup's antenna.  In his heart, he gives up.  But then comes the epitome of what he hates.  A black guy comes along.  He has effeminate mannerisms, a guy who has done well, a metro-sexual, in a low riding Cadillac, hip hop blaring from the speakers with the Bass audible from 10 miles away.  The bling is so bright when he hops out of the car that the redneck has to shield his eyes.  Joe Klan can't stand the guy!   He can't stand even being touched by this guy!  But he is nearly unconscious.  The last thing he remembers is seeing the flash of a smile with a gold grille as he is loaded into the car.  Later on he wakes up in the hospital.  He finds out that he had made it to the hospital just in time to be revived, and that his bill has been paid by the very one he has spent his life hating.  It is totally scandalous.  He is dumbfounded!

If you understand this story, and the audacity of the black guy saving this white guy, then you perhaps get a glimpse of the parable Jesus tells in Luke 10:30-37, often called the Good Samaritan.  The point is that the one we totally hated loved us anyway.  And still does.  He became one of us and stepped into our totally screwed up world.  He gave his life to prove it.   He paid our bill.   Some things don't change.  Most of the world still hates him.  But it won't change his love and commitment to us.  Yes, his love is that radical. 

And being a Christian is just that:  Pass it on.

Peace,
Kristi

[Ell]

Mara,

i also have difficulty dealing with alot of things biblical.

however, some very sweet people on this site are rather devout, and i feel just awful saying things that make them feel badly.

i am not religious, but i care deeply about other people's feelings. i have hurt people's feelings in the past, and i sincerely regret having done so. not because i have failed in a religious way, but because that just isn't the kind of person i want to be.

i think you may have offended Cindi, Beth06, Kristi, and Ashley Michelle, and, i dunno, it might be well if you apologized.

also, fyi, it's not exactly kosher to rebel against Christianity on the Spirituality boards. (try the Philosophy section!!)

Kind Regards, & i hope i haven't lectured ya

-ellie

[Suzy]

I'm certainly not offended. 

You just have no idea how much ink has been spilled over past centuries trying to explain just this question.  So just don't expect quick answers.  And of course you don't have to agree.  No problem there, just be aware of the complexity of the question.  I answered you with a parable.  That's the same way Jesus answered it, by the way.

Kristi

[Ell]

I'm certainly not offended. 

ok, scratch Kristi from that list.

(no really, Mara, if i had said anything like that they'd have been all over me like white on rice, and would have sent me back to my little corner)

[Ell]

and ell, you and i have a truce!   

yes, and we had to hammer it out with much heart pain on both sides!

why does Mara get off so easy?

-ellie

[cindianna_jones]

As I stated above, Christ physically suffered for the sins of humanity in Gethsamane prior to his crucifixion. His death was necessary so that he could be resurrected and thereby providing the path for those to follow.

That makes NO SENSE???

Regardless of Whether he DIED two day later or not, MY QUESTION IS what was accomplished by IT???\

your answer is so he could be resurected, and provide a path for others to follow???
rather empty answer....

Hey, I didn't say that it made sense.  That's the doctrine that they have given us.  I'm not defending or pushing it.  I'm only trying to answer the question posed.  Doctrinally, Christ as a god, could have just gone on a cruise or spelunking in Brazil rather than take the afternoon baking in the sun.  But again according to the doctrine, for the resurrection to be possible for all mankind, he had to die.  If he didn't die, he could not have resurrected himself ... and by God's decree, he had to be the first.  He had to voluntarily give up his own life for resurrection to work.  Again.... this is the doctrine.  This is the very basis of Christianity.... not Cindi's beliefs.  If you want to see what I believe, check out my Chronicles here on the site.

I try to find reasonable explanations for things rather than to believe something that has been passed down for generations.  I've been given an inquisitive mind.  I want to use it before I die.  Religion is adequate for my dear mother to answer all of the two questions she's had during her existence concerning the meaning of life.  Me..... I want more. That's why the study of cosmology and related sciences has been so interesting to me.  Give me some data points, a hypothesis, and a good theory and I'm much more satisfied with the potential answers.

Cindi

[bethzerosix]

i think you may have offended Cindi, Beth06, Kristi, and Ashley Michelle, and, i dunno, it might be well if you apologized.

also, fyi, it's not exactly kosher to rebel against Christianity on the Spirituality boards. (try the Philosophy section!!)

Kind Regards, & i hope i haven't lectured ya

-ellie

im all good too. no hard feelings at all.. and ell.. i think you are awesome.  you too mara ... much love

i think that all the answers were very good... and a little short from my understanding.

[Jordan]

Apoligies***

Cindy I see what you have written here:

"Hey, I didn't say that it made sense.  That's the doctrine that they have given us.  I'm not defending or pushing it.  I'm only trying to answer the question posed.  Doctrinally, Christ as a god, could have just gone on a cruise or spelunking in Brazil rather than take the afternoon baking in the sun.  But again according to the doctrine, for the resurrection to be possible for all mankind, he had to die.  If he didn't die, he could not have resurrected himself ... and by God's decree, he had to be the first.  He had to voluntarily give up his own life for resurrection to work.  Again.... this is the doctrine.  This is the very basis of Christianity.... not Cindi's beliefs.  If you want to see what I believe, check out my Chronicles here on the site."



Frankly I want to know your beliefs, I wrote this post asking others to display thier opinions of how things went down, not how they were taught they happened, beliefs dont need to be a mile long.  For example my beliefs that may not agree with the "BIBLE"

*All go to heaven
*The bible was not intended to accompany Christainity, merely books written thorugout time about the subject...
ect, ect, ect

Cindy you say "Hey, I didn't say that it made sense.  That's the doctrine that they have given us"  thats the last thing I want to hear here, I have heard nothing but pretense for 18 years of my life, I need opinions from true followers that stand up to reason and rationale.

[Jordan]

No worries Ash, I read it all and liked it...

Sorry i am coming off such a rebel here, the thing is I would like to say I am Christain, I just feel there are so many holes that inevitably my overactive brain cannot accept such, so it works to fill the holes it sees with short concise logical answers so that it can perfect it and therefore accept it.

And no this is as much your thread as it is mine..

BTW I especially like the part where you said.

Religion is about what you do, Christianity is about who you are.

I could not agree more...


Again to all sorry i am such a divert person in my words... Please bear with me, I am trying to grasp this concept...