Suddenly feel at home

[Calyx]

Hello everyone,

I recently discovered this forum and was amazed to discover
that you discuss so many of the feelings I have also experienced.

Born male and mostly hated it all my life, I've found that I'm
not happy with the idea of changing completely to female.

I just want to be "ME", whatever that entails - a blending of
gender, depending upon my shifting moods.

Have you found that there is a pattern that leads ultimately
to acceptance that you are an Androgyne?

My heart really aches for all the confused people seeking an
explanation for the way they feel, neither male nor female,
and hesitant to express themselves.

Thank you for being here.

Calyx

[Emerald]

Hello everyone,

I recently discovered this forum and was amazed to discover
that you discuss so many of the feelings I have also experienced.

Born male and mostly hated it all my life, I've found that I'm
not happy with the idea of changing completely to female.

I just want to be "ME", whatever that entails - a blending of
gender, depending upon my shifting moods.

Have you found that there is a pattern that leads ultimately
to acceptance that you are an Androgyne?

My heart really aches for all the confused people seeking an
explanation for the way they feel, neither male nor female,
and hesitant to express themselves.

Thank you for being here.

Calyx

Hi Calyx and welcome! 

I'm not confused. I've never had a problem accepting that I'm an Androgyne.
Are you sure you know what an Androgyne is?
Community terms and definitions can be found here:
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Terms_and_definitions

Your first post...
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?&topic=25668.msg196173#msg196173
...describes a classic progression of a Crossdresser with strong but changing transsexual and transvestic inclinations. You wrote that currently, "I do really wish my breasts were a little larger and that I had long hair, but I have no desire to be totally female any longer. Quite honestly, most of the time I wish I no longer had any male sexual organs."

Have you seen a qualified gender therapist yet? 

-Emerald 

[Seshatneferw]

I'm not confused. I've never had a problem accepting that I'm an Androgyne.
Are you sure you know what an Androgyne is?

Your first post...
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?&topic=25668.msg196173#msg196173
...describes a classic progression of a Crossdresser with strong but changing transsexual and transvestic inclinations.

Indeed. Then again, that does not rule out androgyne -- it's more an indication of how the modern Western society really doesn't give people the mental background to consider non-binary genders, or even gender as separate from sex. It is useful to keep in mind that transsexuality is ultimately about one's sex (even though gender is pretty closely involved in both the diagnosis and treatment), while being androgyne is just about purely a matter of gender.

Have you seen a qualified gender therapist yet? 

If not, it's time to.

  Nfr

[Shana A]

Welcome Calyx, glad you've found us here. There are many ways of being androgyne, sit back and read through the archives to see what resonates for you... I'll warn you though, we're a wordy bunch 

y2g

[NickSister]

Hi Calyx,

I'm glad you found some measure of peace and self acceptance.

I was confused for a long time too and have occasional times of re-reflection. I don't think there is a pattern. Some view things very black and white in their grey world and expect others to view it the same. Somehow they know it, but I think they are rare. Many of us take time to understand and to comprehend and accept ourselves as something which goes against what we are taught all our lives that people are only male and female. Either way the realisation and acceptance is your own.

And I don't think you need a gender therapist to tell you what you know to be true. At best the can help diagnose you as having GID. Apart from that they can't really tell you who you are, that comes from within. All they can do is help you come to your own realisation, and it sounds like you already have it.

don't listen to anyone that tries to diagnose you on the internet, you fit where you feel you do.

[Calyx]

Nfr and Emerald,

In the past I have consulted both a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist, both
supposedly experienced with gender issues like mine. The psychologist wanted to
focus upon my strained relationship with my father. The psychiatrist was mainly
concerned with how my wife dealt with our situation and prescribed medications
that had no noticable effect.

Neither seemed able to address my concerns. Most of my knowledge regarding
transgenderism has come from research in libraries and on the internet. I no
longer really care to understand why I am the way I am. I just want to be
able to comfortably express myself as my moods dictate.

I recognize several distinct phases in my  own "evolution" and was hoping the
scholars among you might have noticed similar patterns in your own lives.

I exist through my feelings and instincts. My nature resists the overly clinical
or rational approaches to understanding and problem solving. 

I really appreciate your comments and will re-examine my situation in light of
your comments.

Thank you,

Calyx 

[Seshatneferw]

In the past I have consulted both a clinical psychologist and a psychiatrist, both
supposedly experienced with gender issues like mine. The psychologist wanted to
focus upon my strained relationship with my father. The psychiatrist was mainly
concerned with how my wife dealt with our situation and prescribed medications
that had no noticable effect.

Oh my. Neither sounds like a very useful approach; but then, 'experienced' is not the same as 'skilled'.

I recognize several distinct phases in my  own "evolution" and was hoping the
scholars among you might have noticed similar patterns in your own lives.

I'm not really a scholar (of gender issues, anyway), but yes: it's possible to see different phases in my past too. I think this is mostly because our culture as a whole is so geared towards having just two genders (and sexes) that it takes time to get over it and start thinking outside the box. For me, the first phases were 'a boy' (well, duh, just look down -- and of course every boy in my sample of one wants to be a girl, so that's normal too), then 'a not-so-masculine man', then 'not really a man after all', which obviously leads to 'a woman'. But that didn't fit very well either.

Interestingly, my gender dysphoria hit its peak at the time I thought I was a woman. After realising I'm somewhere in between, the anatomy doesn't matter nearly as much, although I'd still like to get rid of some of the most obviously visible male features.

I exist through my feelings and instincts. My nature resists the overly clinical
or rational approaches to understanding and problem solving.

Then your feelings and instincts are what you should concentrate on. Do what seems right, but be ready to change what you do when it feels wrong. And keep in touch with your feelings.

This, in fact, is where I am at the moment: a rational approach is well and good for figuring out what's going on, but it doesn't really help all that much in trying to decide what I ought to do. And for me, unlearning to suppress my feelings has proven to be an experience.

  Nfr

[Emerald]

My gender identification is stable Cylax. It never changes. Nor did it evolve, so to speak.
The only thing that changed was my understanding.
I'm neither a man nor a woman beyond my biological sex. I have felt this way all my life.
I happen to be in a female body and I'm content and comfortable within it. I have no body dysphoria issues. I believe I would have been equally content in a differently sexed body. This healthy body will do just fine. I look female because I am a female. Clothing doesn't have a gender to me, I'll wear nearly anything as long as it comfortable, practical, and suits the occasion. (There is nothing practical about high heel shoes.) I strongly prefer colorful but gender neutral clothing. Half my wardrobe came from the mens department in part because I'm broad shouldered and long limbed. I have no clothing fetishes. I do not try to pass as the opposite sex. I always present as naturally human. I do not have GID. I am what I am... and I like who and what I am. I see my lack of gender as a very positive thing. It allows me to be myself... not a gender. It enables me to look at the world without gender tinted glasses.

Most male-bodied Androgynes go through a relatively short MtF exploration period before coming to the conclusion that they are neither gender. Tragically, some medically transition to the opposite sex before realizing that being on the opposite side of the fence feels no different than being on the original side. Most female-bodied Androgynes never realize they are Androgyne, they just assume that other females are more feminine than they are. Those who do become self-aware also go through a period of crossgender exploration. (I went through a time period when I explained my gender experience as having a male mind instead of a female mind before I realized I didn't think like the other gender either.) Homosexual orientation muddies the waters for many Androgynes. A surprising number of Androgynes are asexual or pansexual. Many are contentedly heterosexual. Most Androgynes resent being expected to wear stereotypical clothing of their natal sex. Few male-bodied Androgynes are full-blown crossdressers unless there is a fetishistic element present, or they are naturally androgynous to begin with and thus crossdress en femme because they can - not because they identify as being of female psychological gender. Most Androgynes prefer gender neutral clothing or wear the casual clothing of their natal sex.

On these forums, people who describe their gender as a 'changing mood' usually identify as Gender Fluid or Transgender. Others, who experience an alternating male/female gender, identify as Bigender. Those who have a strong crossgender identification identify as Transsexual men and women. Still others, who feel devoid of gender and desire to surgically eliminate their body's sex markers identify as Neutrois. Crossdressers generally identify as members of their own sex's gender but frequently take on a temporary female persona while crossdressed which, over time, may take on a life of its own. Some individuals are one-of-a-kind Genderqueer and defy even their own earnest attempts to understand who or what they are.

I'm acquainted with many hundreds of Transgender folks Calyx, but you are the first person I've met that seems to have all things transgender going on in their life! You are a bit of a puzzle to me. Quite interesting! What motivates your desire for sex nullification -aesthetics, lack of sex drive, moving closer to having a female body, or?? Were you diagnosed with any other disorders besides GID? What is your ideally sexed body? Your ideal gender situation? Do others see you as male or female, masculine or feminine? What do you wish you could change? Do you prefer using a masculine name, feminine name, or gender neutral name? Prefer to be referred to as he or she? And most importantly, what exactly is your internal gender identity - male, female, both, neither, it varies, I don't know but I want to find out, or none of the above?

"Everyone is kneaded out of the same dough but not baked in the same oven." -Yiddish Proverb

Be yourself... not a gender.
-Emerald

[Jaimey]

Hmmm...I don't think there is necessarily a "why" for being who we are, as far as gender is concerned.  When I read about "androgyne" as a gender identity, I just KNEW.  I had thought that I was ftm until that point, but I had never done anything about it.

As far as the evolution of self discovery...that's going to be different for each person, I would imagine.  A lot of it has to do with self suppression, emotional scars, and the lot.  And after getting through all that you have to find yourself, which can be pretty difficult.

Sorry if I wasn't any help...

[Calyx]

Emerald,

Thank you for the opportunity to be a puzzle. That is actually how I have felt most of my life.

My desire for sex nullification is derived from my natural submissiveness. I've never desired to be
dominant in any situation, which has cost me dearly socially, professionally, and emotionally. I've
hated my male parts since I first really became aware of them. I've always wanted to be smooth
like a girl, when I have actually considered it. Sex is something associated with performance that
I have never cared for. It can be pleasant, but I fear I've never measured up to my partner's
expectations, and I hate disappointing anyone.

Anxiety and depression have always been a problem for me. Prescription drugs did not seem to
help and I have always been too afraid to try recreational drugs because of what I might reveal
to others.

My ideal body would appear more female than male. I would love to try life without male
hormones or sex organs. My ideal gender situation would be ambiguous, but leaning towards
female. I am curious about what it would be like to have a relationship with a male, but I
really have no idea what it is like to be a woman, so gender neutral seems most logical if
I can wear what I want and be accepted.

Other people see me as a slim, balding, middle aged man who is curious, gentle and helpful
by nature. Definitely a nerd, not physically strong, who favors khacki slacks, flannel shirts
during the winter and Hawaiian shirts during the summer. They tend to think I should be a
teacher or librarian.  Many people remark about my outward calmness, and more than a few
over the years have been puzzled by my walk and obvious interest in things feminine.   

I wish I was thinner, had hair again so that I could wear it long, that I had no facial or
body hair, smaller ears and smaller feet, and that I had never started biting my nails
when I was young.

My father's middle name comes from the doctor who delivered him at home in 1926 -
Dr. Page. I was supposed to be a "junior", but my mother spelled my middle name
"Paige". Paige is the name I most identify with but not the one most people know
me by.

I would prefer to be known as simply Paige. Gender doesn't matter much to me.
I am always surprised when I see my reflection or a photo of myself. The face and
body never seem to fit what I feel inside.

I like to wear women's clothing (even high heels occasionally) because it is generally
more comfortable and the colors are more fun. I don't understand why I desire slightly
larger breasts or wider hips, I just have since I was 10 years old. I feel somehow more
at ease when "dressed".

I would like to try to live as a woman, but I am realistic enough to know that I could
never really know what that entails. I do know that I have never really liked, or felt
comfortable trying to be a man.

I just want to be me, whatever that is, even if it changes from one day to the next, and to
be accepted, and perhaps, loved for whoever/whatever I am.






Posted on: February 12, 2008, 12:28:36 AMSeshatneferw,

Thank you for your comments. I think you really come close to understanding
what I am trying to express. I look forward to your posts.


NickSister,

Your kind words renewed me like a gentle summer rain. I would hug you, if it
were possible.


y2gender,

The archives are fascinating, and I only wish I had found you all earlier. So
much to think about! So comforting to know I am not alone in my confusion.
Thak you for watching over us.


Jaimey,

One of the most important things I have learned is that "why" doesn't matter.

We are all on a journey of self discovery for as long as we breathe. The secret
seems to be to keep an open mind.

A hug for you also.

Calyx

[Constance]

Calyx, I'm glad you feel like you've found a home here.

So far, my experience has been positive. But, I'll reserve judgment for now. I'm used to not quite fitting in, even among others who don't quite fit it.

We'll see what happens.