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Is it perhaps time for humankind to bow out gracefully?

Started by lady amarant, February 15, 2008, 03:56:05 AM

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cindianna_jones

If it's a viral infection, I'll agree with you Tekla.  But if it is man caused, I think that there will be a good share of intellectuals who will bunker in to those places which keep out the brutes.  For it will be the intellectuals who have the most resources and biggest guns at their control.

But who really knows.  It's fun to speculate.

Cindi
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tekla

In any deal like that hunkering down in one place will be a death sentence.  Mobility is everything.  And, given that, a lot of their high tech toys are not going to be of any use.  Like old Albert Einstein quote "I do not know how the third world war will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the fourth... rocks."  So, who throws the best rock?  And real basic, who is better at hand to hand combat? 

Moreover, I would think that in any deal of social breakdown things like unit cohesion (the most basic standard combat effectiveness), the ability to move as a unit, to respond as a unit, command and control and the like would carry the day.  Ever try to organize intellectuals?  You see the problem there.  Also there is a huge skill set deal, as physics is of less use than basic mechanics. Bankers are of less use than a person who can fix the water pump.

But what is most likely going to happen is Industrial Collapse.  That is the fake system, propped up on an energy source that is rapidly being used up, with no replacement in sight. So, those that are the best at getting by with the least - those who have been walking not driving, those who garden rather than shop, those who do not need industrial process drugs to stay alive and those who can work as part of a small group are going to do the best.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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lady amarant

Quote from: tekla on February 16, 2008, 01:19:01 PM
...who do not need industrial process drugs to stay alive...

Well then, I suppose my little potted organic veggie garden is kinda superfluous... unless I learn quick-like how to process soy into usable oestrogen! and yams into progesterone! It can be done, I'm sure! Anybody know how?  :icon_confused2:
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lisagurl

QuoteAnyone who trys to say we are better than animals is a hypocrite, and delusional


The description of a poet. ;D
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lady amarant

Quote from: lisagurl on February 16, 2008, 02:45:52 PM
QuoteAnyone who trys to say we are better than animals is a hypocrite, and delusional


The description of a poet. ;D

Hey, we're usually worse!  :icon_2gun:

We can choose to be 'better' though.  :angel:
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Ell

i can honestly say that i have made so much progress psychologically that i am now on a par with every other animal on the planet, maybe.

prior to that, i was just a regular human, i.e., emotional and destructive, and sub-par to most other animals.

however, i am not going to try and change the world.

i prefer to just accept the fact that i am mortal, and try not to be afraid of that.

-ellie
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lady amarant

Quote from: ell on February 16, 2008, 03:19:38 PM
i can honestly say that i have made so much progress psychologically that i am now on a par with every other animal on the planet, maybe.

;D ;D ;D

I love the 'maybe'!
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Chaunte

Cindi brings up several good points. 

The Permian extiction was caused by Great Siberian Basalt Flows and the subsequent release of CO2 and CH4 (methane).  90 to 95% of all life perished.

The KT extinction (Cretaceous & Tertiary) 65 million years ago was caused by an asteroid impact in the Gulf of Mexico.  The dust gave us a mini ice-age followed by runaway greenhouse warming.  (The rock struck the limestone beds, vaporized them and released CO2.)  70% of all life was killed off.

The Eocene 52 million years ago had as much CO2 as what is projected to be in our atmosphere by the end of this century.  Approximately 1000 ppm.  We are presently at approximately 350 ppm.  Wyoming was tropical as a result.

All of these are natural events.  Humanity is creating another such extinction event by the release of CO2 at record levels.  Since markers that tag the beginning and end of an Era are based on mass extinctions, a few geologists/biologists are suggesting that we are entering the next Era even as we speak.

And as the planet warms, the climate is changing.  Just look at the droughts around the world.  Lake systems drying up.  We are probably seeing only the start of worldwide desertification.

In regards to oil, we don't have a hundred years.  We have about 20.  Evidence is building that just about every tapped oil field is reaching or has reached maximum possible production.  The only major exception is Iraq.  The oil fields that have not been tapped, such as ANWAR, are so remote as to make the oil inaccessable at any price.

Then there is the spectre of war.  And there will be war - over oil and over water.

Humanity will probably survive, just as we have survived the ice ages that came before. 

However, what we call civilization - all of it - is in serious jeopardy.

The exception is if we resort to nuclear or biological war.  If that happens, then the game is probably up.

Chaunte
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cindianna_jones

Once we can all see the futility of treading down the current road with fossil fuels, we'll finally agree to look into some promising nuclear technologies. Right now, you mention the word "nuclear" and people go postal.  It's going to take a decade of research (probably more) to get these things from the drawing board to implementation.  The good news is that at least one design can burn the waste we are stockpiling.  It would be nice to get rid of that mess.  You know there's enough untapped energy in that waste to power our country for over 200 years?  And if we burned it, we wouldn't have to worry about how to store it anymore.

.... your solar powered tree hugger,

Cindi
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lady amarant

Quote from: Chaunte on February 23, 2008, 09:18:50 PM
Then there is the spectre of war.  And there will be war - over oil and over water.

Hell, the "resource wars" have started already - Afghanistan, Iraq, The Nigerian oilfields ...

It'll only get worse.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 24, 2008, 02:30:08 AM
... your solar powered tree hugger,

Solar powered tree huggers rock in my book.

Posted on: 24 February 2008, 03:00:23
VNV Nation - The Farthest Star...

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Chaunte

Quote from: Cindi Jones on February 24, 2008, 02:30:08 AM
Once we can all see the futility of treading down the current road with fossil fuels, we'll finally agree to look into some promising nuclear technologies. Right now, you mention the word "nuclear" and people go postal.  It's going to take a decade of research (probably more) to get these things from the drawing board to implementation.  The good news is that at least one design can burn the waste we are stockpiling.  It would be nice to get rid of that mess.  You know there's enough untapped energy in that waste to power our country for over 200 years?  And if we burned it, we wouldn't have to worry about how to store it anymore.

.... your solar powered tree hugger,

Cindi

We will probably see a large resurgence in nuke plants.  Not only will these generate electricity, but we will probably see nuke plants dedicated to producing hydrogen for transportation.  It's the only way to manufacture enough H2 to be a viable fuel source.

We will probably see a small nuke plant set up to finish cooking the shale oil and convert it into usable petrolium.  Share oil reserves need to be heated to about 500C for a number of years to finish the conversion process.

TANSTAAFL.

Chaunte

TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.  From Heinlein's The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress.
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Pica Pica

It'd be wrong to bow out, we should fight to the bitter end like everything else.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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lisagurl

QuoteWe will probably see a large resurgence in nuke plants.  Not only will these generate electricity, but we will probably see nuke plants dedicated to producing hydrogen for transportation.  It's the only way to manufacture enough H2 to be a viable fuel source.

We will probably see a small nuke plant set up to finish cooking the shale oil and convert it into usable petrolium.  Share oil reserves need to be heated to about 500C for a number of years to finish the conversion process.

TANSTAAFL.

That is the most probable  thought hear. Fusion is still at least a century away.
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Annwyn

Quote from: lady amarant on February 15, 2008, 03:56:05 AM
With a damning report out this morning on the damage we've done to the oceans of the world, yet another school shooting, our assorted little wars and exploitations, I sometimes wonder if we haven't maybe had our time. The very real possiblity of global disaster looms between religious fundamentalists with nukes and global warming and, and, and ... Is our species worth saving, and if so, why?

Cuz...

Ima surviva I ain't gon give up

:-p

BESIDES.

There's an infitnate amount of other planets for us to scour and ruin.

Posted on: February 26, 2008, 10:26:38 AM
Quote from: lady amarant on February 24, 2008, 07:48:53 AM
-VNV Nation - The Farthest Star...



That sounds exactly like The Cruxshadows...
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lady amarant

Quote from: Annwyn on February 26, 2008, 10:26:38 AM
Cuz...

Ima surviva I ain't gon give up

:-p

BESIDES.

There's an infitnate amount of other planets for us to scour and ruin.

Ah, now there's that indominable, all-conquering Western spirit we love sooooooo much!
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Annwyn

Quote from: lady amarant on February 26, 2008, 10:33:05 AM


Ah, now there's that indominable, all-conquering Western spirit we love sooooooo much!
Mmhmm.

And hopefully thousands of civilizations to scour and ruin:-)

I wanna blow up some UFOs!  Just like a video game!
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Rowan_Danielle

Ah!  TANSTAAFL.

If only politicians, engineers and business people would consider such a concept when making decisions that affect all of us.

That 'free lunch' can often cost more than it derives in benefits, especially when long term costs of pollution and disposal are considered.
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Annwyn

Pollution?

LOL.

If any of us really cared about that we wouldn't drive cars, use computers, or realyl have any part of the modern technological world.

I care enough to pick up some trash now and then and toss it in a nearby disposal unit, which will prolly get torn open by alley cats anyways.

:-)

We just need to keep our eyes open for a new planet is all.
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lady amarant

Quote from: Annwyn on February 26, 2008, 12:04:13 PM
Pollution?

LOL.

If any of us really cared about that we wouldn't drive cars, use computers, or realyl have any part of the modern technological world.

I care enough to pick up some trash now and then and toss it in a nearby disposal unit, which will prolly get torn open by alley cats anyways.

:-)

We just need to keep our eyes open for a new planet is all.

Gee. And I thought I was the depressing one. You're just a ray of sunshine and innocent hope, aren't you.
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