Restroom discussion

[Rachael]

i dont see whats wrong with that view
i mean, in a transwomans mind, shes never been male, just female. so she was raised in a male body as a male.... what is trans about a woman now in a womans body?

agreed transphobia is bloody rich coming from her...
R >

[mickiejr1815]

maybe she's not trans at all and just can't figure it out on her own, maybe she is IS or androgyne and just can't figure it out and needs someone to push her in the right direction.......


Mickie

[Rachael]

nope, she was born a guy, and wont identify as trans. although i admit i hold a similar view, im not a transsexual, iim a girl, i just transitioned to one. does that make me as big an arse as her? dunno. but its not that point thats the main contention, its the fact that thier being transphobic, and as they transitioned (FACT) its a bit hypocritical.
R >

[Hypatia]

im not a transsexual, iim a girl, i just transitioned to one.

Uh huh. So how do you define the term "transsexual"?

[NicholeW.]

She just was raised male and used to have a male body... It's a sad case, really. She needs help.

She denies a bit more than that, Hypatia. She denies she was raised male back in the 1950s.

Says she was always raised as a girl.

I spoz it might be true, but I rather have my doubts.

N~

[buttercup]

im not a transsexual, iim a girl, i just transitioned to one.

Uh huh. So how do you define the term "transsexual"?

Just had a deja vu moment! 

[Schala]

She just was raised male and used to have a male body... It's a sad case, really. She needs help.

She denies a bit more than that, Hypatia. She denies she was raised male back in the 1950s.

Says she was always raised as a girl.

I spoz it might be true, but I rather have my doubts.

N~

I spoke to someone who told me she had been treated as a girl by everyone from 1955 to 1961...then it all went down to hell (7 years old to 13 years old). I take her at her word. She's a TG fiction author, it definitely has a flavor of the 50-60s in her stories, and most is rather plausible.

As for Rainsong, she's not against early transitioners, but is against older ones, and is spotted almost instantly with references such as "husbands and fathers". She argues from a social constructionist stance and says that anyone who lived 40-some years as male can't ever 'undo' it. I don't think it stands to reason as much as she thinks it does.

[Keira]

Her argument is flawed because maybe you've never really "lived as a man",
I certainly didn't. One girlfriend in 40 years is certainly not a typical male
and I've got plenty of non male moments around. In fact I felt
I belonged to no gender male or female all my life till transition.

[buttercup]

Her argument is flawed because maybe you've never really "lived as a man",
I certainly didn't. One girlfriend in 40 years is certainly not a typical male
and I've got plenty of non male moments around. In fact I felt
I belonged to no gender male or female all my life till transition.

I feel this way too Keira. 

[Berliegh]

Her argument is flawed because maybe you've never really "lived as a man",
I certainly didn't. One girlfriend in 40 years is certainly not a typical male
and I've got plenty of non male moments around. In fact I felt
I belonged to no gender male or female all my life till transition.

Your old male pre - transition short haired photographs you posted in other thread would suggest otherwise and you looked fairly standard male to me in those........

[Rachael]

looked like, and lived like, arnt the same thing....
there are certain things one must do to 'live like a man or woman'
looking like one helps, but isnt part of that.
R >

[Berliegh]

looked like, and lived like, arnt the same thing....
there are certain things one must do to 'live like a man or woman'
looking like one helps, but isnt part of that.
R >

I see...so a man living as a man is not really a man.....

I personally didn't ever want to do that and preferrred to look and dress feminine and have long hair from about the age of 12 onwards .....maybe I was trying to be a man?

[Keira]

Having short hair doesn't mean your a man, or
your living your life as a man.
Some people said I looked like a butch lesbian prior to
transition.
In my 20's people didn't know what sex I was (even If I measured 6 foot).

I had long hair, mid back from 21-30, and took HRT by forging prescriptions and stealing meds for 6 years in my 20's. Had breasts from 21 onward even though I was always slim.

Anyway,
You confound looking like man with living as a man.
When your diagnosed as having no defined identity (by a team
of psychologists, in your 20's) I'm guessing you can't
say your a man or women.

If your having no success in what defines a man, well your
not living successfully as a man. That you've got a men's
body is incidental and didn't care much for putting it
in valor. Dressed like crap even though I've always
had a good body since I loved individial sports, especially
cycling  (so I had
a good body for functional reasons rather than
for the look).

[Berliegh]

Having short hair doesn't mean your a man, or
your living your life as a man.
Some people said I looked like a butch lesbian prior to
transition.

I was just going by the picture's of you I saw in the 'before and after' thread where to me you looked like a regular guy in those early pics.....I don't think they would confuse anyone about your gender..

I agree with you about long hair not necessarily being feminine but that wasn't my point..

[Rachael]

well she did say in her 20s
R >

[buttercup]

Having short hair doesn't mean your a man, or
your living your life as a man.
Some people said I looked like a butch lesbian prior to
transition.

I was just going by the picture's of you I saw in the 'before and after' thread where to me you looked like a regular guy in those early pics.....I don't think they would confuse anyone about your gender..

I agree with you about long hair not necessarily being feminine but that wasn't my point..

What is your point Berleigh?  I am at a loss as to some of your comments.

[Keira]

We're talking about living as a man.
Looking like a man doesn't mean your living successfully as a man.
How did you live before transition, as a man, a women, a something else.

For most of my 20's looked like something else, not male or female.

The photos you saw were at almost 39 and since I was
able to pass near 100% at 4 months HRT and at 80% by
2 month (I was entering women's restroom by month 2-3),
I must have been pretty ambiguous even at that age hey.
With longer hair and not as monstruously big clothing, I probably
would have passed 50% of the time even pre HRT. I had
electrolysis 10 years earlier and have a very small frame which
undoubtably helps.

But, even if I looked like Clooney, still didn't mean I would
be successfull as a man. Looks has nothing to do with
living a man's life instead of just threading water and
surviving.

[Rachael]

berleigh likes to be the only girl who looked like one pretransition.... woe betide you if you try and look feminine too!
R >

[Berliegh]

berleigh likes to be the only girl who looked like one pretransition.... woe betide you if you try and look feminine too!
R >

That's not true at all. I know one or two people who were extreamely female looking pre - transition. Blew the whasit out of me.....

[Hypatia]

This discussion has taken a questionable turn. Rainsong's hangup is about people who have lived a life in two genders (to borrow Jennifer Finney Boylan's phrase). In her worldview, it's extremely evil to cross the gender boundary which is why she fights so hard to claim she was raised female, not very convincingly. I hope no one here is endorsing that belief. Rainsong is a sick individual and I would not want to lend her ravings any validity. We have all had to cross that boundary whether we admit it or not.