What is it with teenagers and clocking?

[Hypatia]

What is it about teenagers that makes them clock us so easily when adults don't? I wouldn't mind so much, except for the immature attitudes about anyone who is different, the outright cruelty and intense pressure toward absolute conformity.

I've noticed that clocking happens in inverse proportion to the observer's age. The first time I passed perfectly, I was sitting at a table with three women in their 70s who never suspected in the slightest. From then on, I tracked the improvement in my passing skills through successively lower ages. When I got down to 30s, I figured that was good enough and I was ready for prime time. Nowadays, I definitely pass with anyone 20 and up--but teenagers! Bloody hell! It's like they were sent just to punish us.

[Annwyn]

Teenagers have more open minds to the unusual and are more receptive to picking up on things like that.
Not only that but hell, they'll call a muscular woman a a guy made up and a guy with large hips a lesbian.

There's a lady at my gym that even I personally can't decide to clock or not.  Beautiful but not exactly feminine in the face, but very big frame, ginormous boobs and all.  Cept she's got a daughter a few years younger than me, doesn't look much like her though..
Either way, she's been the joke of being a TG many a time just in my presence, even though none of us know for sure.
BUT.  More than likely she used to be a competitive bodybuilder or athlete of some type, mixed up w/ steroids and got a manface along with bigger bones.
I'm sure it could happen with anyone.  And the more you respond to it, the worse it'll get.

[NicholeW.]

I don't think it has anything to do with 'open minds,' I find that teenagers are probably less 'open' than any other age-group of human beings.

In fact they are so closed minded because what becomes premium during those years is a very deep sense of 'wanting to fit in.' They do these analyses to see what fits and what doesn't fit. And they, obviously, want to be in the 'fit in' for their preferred groups.

Thus, they analyze closely and are always surveying others to discover how well they 'fit in.'

I always found that the worst group of 'teenagers' are those under 18, more or less. After high school and as they move toward and into adult occupations and college, trade school, etc, I have found them less and less prone to analyzing everyone else and themselves in relation to everyone else.

That, that lack of close analysis in favor of pursuing one's own interest exclusively seems to me to be the major marker for 'official' adulthood. Things that once I noticed minutely do not matter so much once I start finding that I do 'fit in' somewhere.

Nichole

[Annwyn]

Wow.  Strong blanket statements.  Not all of us are all about fitting in.

Teenagers are kids who've been locked up their entire lives, start looking like adults, and there's this big clash between autonomy and still being dependent on the parents.  It's a tough time of finding one's identity.  On top of that, they're in a highly social setting, one that adults set them up in.  What do you think happens when you get 1000+ people under one roof, all trying to find their identities and desperate to get out and get started w/ an adult life?

So please, please don't go bashing teens for trying to grow up and be assertive.  And please don't group all of us into one group either, that's not fair.

[Schala]

What is it about teenagers that makes them clock us so easily when adults don't? I wouldn't mind so much, except for the immature attitudes about anyone who is different, the outright cruelty and intense pressure toward absolute conformity.

I've noticed that clocking happens in inverse proportion to the observer's age. The first time I passed perfectly, I was sitting at a table with three women in their 70s who never suspected in the slightest. From then on, I tracked the improvement in my passing skills through successively lower ages. When I got down to 30s, I figured that was good enough and I was ready for prime time. Nowadays, I definitely pass with anyone 20 and up--but teenagers! Bloody hell! It's like they were sent just to punish us.

I passed with an 80 years old lady 10 months before taking hormones, 9 months before going full-time and I didn't even try to, she just started talking to me and assumed I was female.

I passed with 35-50 years old 2 weeks full-time, still pre-hormones.

I passed with 20-30 years old 3 months hormones, 4 months full-time.

I passed with everyone (even kids and teens) 5-6 months hormones 6-7 months full-time.

I agree teens, and kids, tend to perceive the difference more easily. Within the teen group, girls are more perceptive.

While nearly no boys noticed I was wearing girl's jeans, girls did notice and comment on it, about 10 months pre full-time.

[tekla]

I'm going to vote for the 'more attention to detail' option.  Burdened less with things like health issues, car payments, fights with their bosses and wives, house payments, and all that stuff, it leaves a lot of room to notice and think about other things.

And, if its all about 'fitting in' - you begin to notice right away what does not.

[Keira]

While boys may notice less, they're more inclined to point it out to everyone like a
badge of honor.

[Sarah]

I don't think it has anything to do with 'open minds,' I find that teenagers are probably less 'open' than any other age-group of human beings.

In fact they are so closed minded because what becomes premium during those years is a very deep sense of 'wanting to fit in.' They do these analyses to see what fits and what doesn't fit. And they, obviously, want to be in the 'fit in' for their preferred groups.

Thus, they analyze closely and are always surveying others to discover how well they 'fit in.'

I always found that the worst group of 'teenagers' are those under 18, more or less. After high school and as they move toward and into adult occupations and college, trade school, etc, I have found them less and less prone to analyzing everyone else and themselves in relation to everyone else.

That, that lack of close analysis in favor of pursuing one's own interest exclusively seems to me to be the major marker for 'official' adulthood. Things that once I noticed minutely do not matter so much once I start finding that I do 'fit in' somewhere.

Nichole

Actually you know, If I can speak for my generation, which these teens are appart of,
Most of us are far more accepting than those of previous generations.
It's a halmarck of our generation to be more accepting of people who are different.
There are some that don't , and teenagers who are bigoted tend to be far more vocal than adults, but still.

Good things to come.

As far as clocking, a lot of the pictures here of those who people said passed, I could tell.
A lot of it has to do I think that we are aware of glbt issues and so don't just write somthing off as the first impression.

That is another hallmarck of our generation; we just don't take things for granted. We don't just take things for face value. We almost inuitively start looking for what's underneath.

I don't know why we do this, but almost everyone of my generation I've ever met has been like this.

My friend's mom said the reason why we are called Generation Y is because we are always asking "why?".
Apparently teachers all over the county have noticed it.

That seems to be a trait. We just don't go with the status quo without questioning the basis for it.
And without getting a good reason for that basis.
Sara

[Audrey]

I tend to agree with you Sarah.  I do believe that the teenagers of today are more accepting than people give them credit for.  In a world with "emos", "goths", and all those other "different" people, we aren't that different.

And it does seem that teenage girls are more perceptive.  I was in the mall one day when a teenage girl walking with her two guy friends totally clocked me.  She then whispered to her buddies who immediately spun around and were looking around.  The funny part is that she looked right at me, but her friends were looking around and didn't even notice me.  I just went on my merry way at that point so maybe eventually they figured it out but who cares anyway.

A friends little brother came over once (15) to my friends house when we were just hanging out.  He figured it out after a little while, but wasn't fazed.  It just wasn't a big deal to him.  Also my little brother is 16 and when I originally told my he was like "um whatever go for it.  Do what you feel and screw the rest."

So in reality there is going to be people that accept it and others that don't, regardless of age group.

Audrey

[Steph]

Personally I don't think that they clock us any easier than anyone else.  They are not born with any special perceptive qualities that anyone else.  Generally adults are often too polite to make any comments towards a TS person who they have clocked, and if they are with someone else they more often than not will simply say something under their breath to the person they are with.

Teens on the other hand have different values, values they are developing, teens need to interact with their peers, they need to be apart of the group they identify with and be accepted.  Consequently, these busy lives usually don't have the time to analyze those who don't fit into their idea of what is acceptable, allowable, cool for the group they associate with.

A number of years ago I had an encounter on a school bus where a lot of the students know me and about me.  On this occasion three new students happened to be going home on the bus I had to drive as the driver had called in sick at the last minute, usually no big deal.  Now one of the rules that I teach all new bus drivers is that they will be privy to many conversations between students, and they will here some things that they may find questionable, funny, or even somewhat rude, therefore they should ensure that while they must listen they shouldn't "Hear" everything.

The three new students sat at the back of the bus (The Cool Section, the place where the coolest kids get to sit).  from their conversation it was obvious that one of the new students had clocked me as we're in pretty close quarters and immediately started to throw insults my way.  I didn't hear everything, but I did catch the odd "He must be a ->-bleeped-<-", "What a pervert", and even a "Hey 'It' !".  Not nice stuff, but I ignored it as I overheard other students rebuking them, and they eventually stopped.  Now had one of these new students gotten on the bus by themselves, then I doubt that they would have said anything but being with a peer group, and needing to fit in, it was almost required that they say something.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

[tinkerbell]

I don't think it has anything to do with 'open minds,' I find that teenagers are probably less 'open' than any other age-group of human beings.

In fact they are so closed minded because what becomes premium during those years is a very deep sense of 'wanting to fit in.' They do these analyses to see what fits and what doesn't fit. And they, obviously, want to be in the 'fit in' for their preferred groups.

Thus, they analyze closely and are always surveying others to discover how well they 'fit in.'

I always found that the worst group of 'teenagers' are those under 18, more or less. After high school and as they move toward and into adult occupations and college, trade school, etc, I have found them less and less prone to analyzing everyone else and themselves in relation to everyone else.

That, that lack of close analysis in favor of pursuing one's own interest exclusively seems to me to be the major marker for 'official' adulthood. Things that once I noticed minutely do not matter so much once I start finding that I do 'fit in' somewhere.

Nichole

I totally concur with you, Nichole.  I don't have any children, but I have literally seen my youngest sister transform into the beautiful young lady she has become.  She's twenty now, and boy, she used to (when she was younger) look at everything and everyone on the street, what other girls are wearing, how they talk, how they move, how they walk, what kind of makeup they have on their faces, their nail color, shoes, hair styles,  etc, etc, etc.  Teenagers are very perceptive, for they are trying to learn and fit in society; there is way too much competition out there, especially for girls, so it's only "normal" teenage behavior.  Also, like I said on this post, if you can survive a bus or a train full of teenagers, right after they are leaving school, then you DO pass!

I have an experiment that people could do when they are ready, of course.

Get on a bus or train full of teenagers (when they are leaving school).  If no one takes a second glance at you, laughs or mocks you, then you definitely pass.  Teenagers tend to be extremely perceptive, and most of the time, if someone reads you, it is more likely to be a teenager.

tink

tink

[Purple Pimp]

While boys may notice less, they're more inclined to point it out to everyone like a
badge of honor.

How true.  I think there are two factors going on with clocking by younger people: first, they are still heavily socializing, and therefore noticing EVERYTHING.  Second, because they are less socialized, they are more apt to stare or even call you straight out on your gender.

Lia

[Sheila]

I drive teens everyday. I don't think that anyone has ever said anything about me. Steph is right, we are privey to a lot of talk and our ears must be open but our mouths closed, unless it is something that people could get hurt over. On my bus, all my kids know that talking trash about another person or groups of people are not allowed. I will tell them and if they continue they will get a bus ticket. So, I don't think that they will talk about anyone on my bus, cause if I do hear them I will write them up. This is standard practice in my district. I have made friends with some and they either don't know or they are very accepting. Either way, I live my life in peace. As far as going to the mall, I have no problems there either. It has been a long time since I have gotten a bad look and that was when I first started full time.
Sheila

[Ember Lewis]

It's like that scene from Trans America, when she's crying on the phone cuz a little girl just asked her if she was a girl or boy. I had a little boy stare at me on the bus the other day...and stare...and stare.

[Hypatia]

It's like that scene from Trans America, when she's crying on the phone cuz a little girl just asked her if she was a girl or boy. I had a little boy stare at me on the bus the other day...and stare...and stare.

Jessica, looking at your totally girly picture all I can think is the only reason anyone would stare at you is cause you're such a beautiful babe.

[Maddie Secutura]

It must be a thing with fitting in.  By pointing out someone who deviates farther than the standard than oneself, that person has established the fact that they fit in.  I think it only really occurs in groups.  There is no benefit in outing someone if there is no one to talk to about it.

[Wing Walker]

I believe that I pass with everyone, everywhere, so I don't have any concern over being "clocked."

On the other hand, I couldn't care any less about passing with anyone.  I am happy with me and after a life of living it for others' approval I say pits on anyone who has a problem with my gender or appearance.

Wing Walker

[Beyond]

I totally concur with you, Nichole.  I don't have any children, but I have literally seen my youngest sister transform into the beautiful young lady she has become.  She's twenty now, and boy, she used to (when she was younger) look at everything and everyone on the street, what other girls are wearing, how they talk, how they move, how they walk, what kind of makeup they have on their faces, their nail color, shoes, hair styles,  etc, etc, etc.  Teenagers are very perceptive, for they are trying to learn and fit in society; there is way too much competition out there, especially for girls, so it's only "normal" teenage behavior.  Also, like I said on this post, if you can survive a bus or a train full of teenagers, right after they are leaving school, then you DO pass!

I totally agree with this.  Teen girls are incredibly perceptive.  They are constantly checking everybody and everything out.  Just watch them in a mall sometime.

[Suzy]

Well, my experience with teens is just a little different.  I have one myself, and we have had a lot of talks about it.  They might, in the long run, be accepting, but in the short term, the peer pressure they feel to fit in causes them to be a lot more observant.  This does not make them more perceptive, but it does make them more likely to point out differences to their friends.  They just want to be part of the crowd so badly that sometimes they feel it necessary to bring down anyone unlike them.  In fact, the only time I have ever been pointed at and publicly ridiculed was by one teenage girl trying to show off for her friend.  In a word, it is all about teenage insecurity.  As we grow older we just become more comfortable with ourselves.  We actually may notice more, but it matters less.

Kristi

[Berliegh]

I totally concur with you, Nichole.  I don't have any children, but I have literally seen my youngest sister transform into the beautiful young lady she has become.  She's twenty now, and boy, she used to (when she was younger) look at everything and everyone on the street, what other girls are wearing, how they talk, how they move, how they walk, what kind of makeup they have on their faces, their nail color, shoes, hair styles,  etc, etc, etc.  Teenagers are very perceptive, for they are trying to learn and fit in society; there is way too much competition out there, especially for girls, so it's only "normal" teenage behavior.  Also, like I said on this post, if you can survive a bus or a train full of teenagers, right after they are leaving school, then you DO pass!

I totally agree with this.  Teen girls are incredibly perceptive.  They are constantly checking everybody and everything out.  Just watch them in a mall sometime.

It's never a problem for me and they never take any notice of me...