Genitals - To Hate or Not To Hate?

[Annwyn]

I was full time stealth from 13-16, on HRT till my rents retracted their consent to the therapy.  I've lived about two years of my life in various mental hospitals, had stitches all up in my wrists and still don't have full feeling in my lift wrist from cutting myself so deeply.  Honestly, I've had a completely different perspective than most of the people on here, from transitioning at such a young age, being outed in a highly social setting by an entire school district and still have my name discussed in the hallways even so far as 150 miles away here in Beaufort, when I went to school in Columbia, I mean middle/highschool.
I have a unique experience of being forced off therapy and making something of my life without relying on gender crap, forcing myself to think, "well, even if this is the way things are I'll make the best of it all."



So when I express a rough opinion, it's not to bring someone down.  It's simply that there are a lot of people that look for excuses to not deal with their issues head on and I will not give them that excuse.  I am not trying to bring people down.  In fact, I am extending the invitation to contact me over any form of communication of your liking if you want an honest, caring, but no bull->-bleeped-<- person to talk to, just PM me.  I am extending that invitation and I am letting it stand as well, I'm here for you guys and girls to serve with the best of my ability.

I'm also a transsexual supremist.  That means that I view any transsexual in high regards simply because that individual has the highest capability known to human kind, and that is to dream and dream WELL.  It is in my personal belief that imagination is the measuring tape to the depth of the soul and the potential of one's fate.  This place is so full of potential.  Everyone on here that can work against society, their own bodies and minds, and their families, and everything else to reach their dreams have my deepest respect and deserve anything I can do to help.  I also don't tolerate pollution in this society, and therefore owe it to everyone to be as honest as I can on these forums.  Considering so many great people on here already have most things covered, the things that aren't addressed on here are the whiny little, 'poor poor me cuz I'm TS' attitudes that well, I can't stand, so I take a stand against it vehemently.

Open your eyes to a greater life folks, it's a beautiful world, no matter where you're looking at it from.

[jenny_]

Annwyn,

I shouldn't speak for everyone else here, but I think it would suffice if you simply didn't criticize people for their thoughts and possible actions in a situation you have never been in.  I think Susan's has always been a place you can speak your mind, but also a place where everyone respects everyone else's thoughts, feelings, and opinions.

Again, my apologies if I have read things incorrectly.  I don't mean to offend you.

Amy

Completely agree with you.

Annwyn, everybody has been through different experiences, everybody copes differently.  Making assumptions about people, and putting them in categories, when you don't know everything about them is insane.
Some of us struggle, and may not cope as wonderfully as you have.  but that's no reason to judge, and speak so harshly.  A little sympathy and consideration wouldn't go amiss.

i have anxiety disorder which is a lot down to GID, and used to self-harm.  and yeah, i have tough days and whine. but i am happy with who i am (minus a few body parts that'll be gone someday), and am quite aware how beautiful the world is.

jenny
x x

[Alyssa M.]

Annwyn -

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. It seems a bit selfcontradictory to me:

They point their fingers at their gender issues and psyche themselves up over it so much that they attribute a two year, character building journey to changing genders when for the most part it's just growing up.  People say that the more GID you are, the more you hate your life and your genitals.  No, that's just depression and lack of coping skills.  GID is simply wanting to be the opposite gender.
...
I'm transsexual, and I'm NOT depressed and suicidal, I don't have a desire to self mutilate my genitals even if I do dislike them at the moment WITH A PASSION. and I'm not using GID as a scapegoat for all my other issues and I never have and I never will.

I was full time stealth from 13-16, on HRT till my rents retracted their consent to the therapy.  I've lived about two years of my life in various mental hospitals, had stitches all up in my wrists and still don't have full feeling in my lift wrist from cutting myself so deeply.
...
I have a unique experience of being forced off therapy and making something of my life without relying on gender crap, forcing myself to think, "well, even if this is the way things are I'll make the best of it all."

Was there some reason other that being TS that you were depressed? It seems to me GID causes depression, so it's not exactly scapegoating, just facing the facts.

I've suffered from depression that started between maybe age 5 and 10 ramping slowly up, and persisted through maybe 23 or 24 before I started making progress against it, and still isn't exactly gone. There are a few causes other than GID -- minorly disfunctional family and bad reactions to the darkness of winter to be specific -- but most of it has to do with gender. So yes, I'm going to point my finger.

On the other hand, I realize that pointing the finger doesn't do any good, and that once your life is as screwed up by depression as mine was -- never mind GID -- that transitioning won't solve your problems. In order to get by from day to day I've had to learn what makes life worth living for me as an individual, not as a woman or a man or in relation to anyone else's expectations. So I guess my experience is similar to yours in that way.

I think it's good advice to recommend working on the non-gender-related problems in your life before or at least while transitioning, and not to assume that somehow transitioning is going to make everything peachy keen. But it's just advice based solely on what's worked for me (sort of, so far) and (maybe) common sense.

(But hey, I get it, it was a rant. It's cool.)

-A.

[Annwyn]

I think what I said was pretty right wing guys.

I know that there's a bit of truth in what I said.  But I was out of line to push it as far as I did.

So yeah, I was wrong, and I'm just here telling everyone that.

I KNOW that depression can be seperated from GID and then eliminated all together whilst still keeping one's dream.  But, I was ignoring the fact our of spite that the two always seem bundled together, that everyone isn't the same, and that I especially am a one of a kind on these forums.

I hope you'll forgive me.

[lady amarant]

Creepy yet fascinating. Will never forget the time my gyno put her hand up there and touched my uterus. I was in awe that she could actually reach my insides. And somehow through her hand, I could feel my own uterus. It felt like a jellyfish (or rather what I imagine a jellyfish to feel like). It was wild and awesome and it took my breath away.

Thanks for the very graphically vivid yet strangely compelling description... I too would love to have a uterus. I don't think I'd actually tell people about it though... 

[Butterfly]

I abhor them.  If I could have GRS today, I would.  Unluckily I've got to wait one more year for the blasted bits to be history. 

[ambientdischord]

annwyn, I just wish you hadn't made so many hasty judgments about me, such as my self-harm history.  I wish it was as simple as depression as a result of being transgendered, but I have a lot of other psychological issues as well.  Chronic bipolar I illness is very serious and isn't just some whiny clique to be relegated to feeling sorry for oneself.  If it was that simple, then my life journey would have been much easier- I could have faced things on my own terms and not on the terms of a mind detached completely from reality.  Instead I've had to have mood stabilizers, anti-psychotic medications, etc.  just to see that the way I have perceived the world in the past has been so irrational and literally crazy that I could not function as other people have.  Just like you, I've been institutionalized several times in my life, but I'd be the last person to say that I have life hard.  So I refuse to judge those who live in a world of self-pity. 

As far as transitioning goes, I know that self-mutilating my own genitals is completely unnecessary and damaging to myself, but it doesn't mean I don't think about it.  I am dealing with my issues of transition as best I can, and for you to put me down for it is just plain mean.  Some of the others here might be more forgiving, but I'm going to remember your words for a long time.  We as sisters (and brothers) need to support each other to the fullest extent regardless of where we are in our transition, and your lack of respect towards me has been both hurtful and completely out of line. 

To be exact, while bipolar and therefore experiencing my share of depression, it was never depression that caused me problems.  Depression is easy to deal with; you get off your butt and go share experience with the world until you forget you're depressed.  Mania is a totally different monster that has nothing to do with GID.  Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned my experience with self-mutilation, but I thought it pertinent to the discussion.  Don't assume I did this out of depression.  Not all of us equate our transgendered experience with depression and a separation from society.  Some of us see ourselves as a gateway for social action. 

You talk about working against society, well, how many groups are you involved in that are actively doing this?  Will you be at the local protest against the HRC dinner in your community?  Will you be there to lobby for a revised version of a new ENDA bill?  If you really want to work against society, it takes more than simply "passing" in the world.  It takes getting out there and fighting for the right to say you're proud of who you are.  It takes getting involved with people who are actively fighting the hatred and oppression we face on a daily basis.  It takes getting past your personal issues and saying to the world "We are here, and we're not going away.  We demand equality". 

Don't you dare EVER use my words to tell anyone on here that I'm here for self pity.  I'm one of the most active members of the protest movement in the Atlanta area, and I'm slowly getting the connections to be involved with the entire Southeast action movement.  I'm not here to whine, I'm here to know myself.  And I'm living a life that is worth a lot more than simply whining about depression over GID on the internet.

[kirakero]

Vivian~  Thanks for your contributions to the community.  Taking action in some way: attending events, educating people, being there for people~  Makes all the difference in world.  Improving the quality of life for one person, or for many, helps us put things into the perspective that it isn't just about 'me', but about everyone a whole instead.

Leslie~  I wish you a speedy SRS.

Annwyn~  I understand your position.  It is a very hard position when you have had something taken away from you.  Please stay strong, and let happiness for a better future dictate your life, rather then sadness for the present.

[ambientdischord]

p.s. sorry for being so negative last night everyone and especially Annwyn.  The last thing I want to do hear is stir up drama!  So, I've reached my drama-stirring quota for the year  -_-

Anyways.  Thanks Kirakero for your words (also your beautiful, beautiful hair).  Activism isn't for everyone, but for those of us who can, we're doing our best to try to change the world we live in.

[deviousxen]

Creepy yet fascinating. Will never forget the time my gyno put her hand up there and touched my uterus. I was in awe that she could actually reach my insides. And somehow through her hand, I could feel my own uterus. It felt like a jellyfish (or rather what I imagine a jellyfish to feel like). It was wild and awesome and it took my breath away.

Thanks for the very graphically vivid yet strangely compelling description... I too would love to have a uterus. I don't think I'd actually tell people about it though... 

Thats an interesting description. Its really rare someone would actually give anyone a clue on how it  *feels. Thats usually the kind of thing you can't exactly ask, but with a mind that doesn't shut up, it crosses it. Learning something new or interesting helps me sleep... Thanks.

And Annwyn looks pretty damned Irish.O_o

[Blanche]

I abhor them.  If I could have GRS today, I would.  Unluckily I've got to wait one more year for the blasted bits to be history. 

I have the same feelings Leslie.  Four more months and these feelings of inadequacy will be over.

[Kate]

I don't hate 'em. I generally don't pay any attention to them. But I know they're there. When living as a male, that didn't really bother me (unless they were aroused, which was insanely humiliating, but I still didn't hate THEM for it).

But living as a woman, it's a constant, nagging embarrassment. Not hatred, just embarassing. And not that the genitals THEMSELVES are embarrassing, but the fact that I, as a woman, HAVE them is. I'm correcting an inappropriate situation, a cirumstance... not attacking a body part with a homocidal vengence.

~Kate~

[Annwyn]

Thx Kate, you summed it up pretty well.  Being transgender does not indicate a homocidal vengeance towards the genitals, just a dislike of them, IMHO.

But it's just an opinion of course.

[Kimberly Kilpatrick]

Its actually kind of funny in a twisted sort of way to look in the mirror.  Almost like WHAT THE F$#@ IS THAT.  Most days I just kind of don't think about it too much and get on with my day.  It will probably be a year or two until I can get rid of it, but oh well not much I can do about it at the moment.

Audrey

So true. Why worry about something at the moment I have little control over. Maybe in the future will be different is the only thing that gives me comfort.

[Patroklos]

I'm relatively okay with having a vagina. I enjoy it for sexual purposes. However, I do hate the rest of the connected plumbing. It bothers me more that I don't have a penis than it does that I do have a vagina. I'd actually be very okay with both organs.

[pretty pauline]

I can't say I honestly hated that thing, but I couldn'd relax with a guy, when it was finally gone I could finally be intimate with guys, my plumbing (meow) matching my gender, just being a complete woman.

[Annwyn]

I'm relatively okay with having a vagina. I enjoy it for sexual purposes. However, I do hate the rest of the connected plumbing. It bothers me more that I don't have a penis than it does that I do have a vagina. I'd actually be very okay with both organs.

Yeah, honestly when I compare my genitals to a body that I have to try hard to make look female, I despair more over my body, my flat chest, and my lack of hips more than I could ever despair over those things down there.

In short:

The plumbing shouldn't even be a concern if the house ain't even built.

[deviousxen]

I used to care more about having a vagina, and then I went through puberty and I kinda got distracted by how much I hated my body as a whole instead.

I agree with the above statement. Haha.

[Maddie Secutura]

Wow, the house reference a good analogy.  I choose to not hate because hate really is a strong word.  I strongly dislike my junk, but looking at it as donor material is a way to take the edge off.  However, once the house gets built (starting in September I hope), the plumbing will become an issue.

[ambientdischord]

When you build a house, you make a foundation (HRT), install plumbing through the foundation, then build a house, and finish up the plumbing and do electricity, drywalling, etc. 

Ok, so I ruined that.  But the point is, I don't think that's necessarily true, or that it "should be" true for everyone.  My genitals (and the changing thereof) are more important to me than anything else, as far as transition goes. 

on another note, I'm getting really sick of tucking!