Herbal use for HRT known to cause Heart attacks, and stroke.

[Sarah]

I will post this from my blog here:
http://opensourcegender.blogspot.com/2008/02/dangers-of-herbal-use-for-transgender.html

I got a mesage from someone who can confirm that not only her, but others she knows of have experienced Heart Attacks and Strokes related to the use of Herbal HRT.
My guess is that most likely it stems from the presence of Black Cohosh, a blood thinner, that is present in most brands.
Either way, there can be no doubt as to the saftey of the current brands on the market.

Sara

[LynnER]

The levels of herbal HRT a person would need to take inorder to have any reasonable physical results would be toxic and possably even leathel.

Many people mistake herbal supliments as safe, but they are just as serious as any other medication...  People need to realize this...  Herbal supliments are just as likely if not more so to cause serious health problems <damage the liver and kidnies for example> because people dont monitor there use and think that because what there taking is "Natural" that it is safe...

[Sarah]

One of the problems with the use in our community is that there has been a real lack of information about the subject.
People just don't talk about it, and so there are many that do it and not realize the risks or dangers, because there simply isn't information regarding about it.
Now there is.
We know for sure that people in our community have used them and gotten serious ill side effects from them.
I would certainly not ban all herbals for all things, but to use it for HRT sems to be quite dangerous demonstratedly.

Now we can tell people why they are dangerous. Not just tell them that they are "Unregulated". That doesn't deter them. People who use herbals know that they are unregulated.  All Herbals are unregulated. That doesn't say anything about the side effects.
Now we can tell people what the side effects actually are;
Not just a lack of information.

Sara

[LynnER]

In chat we go into the details...  But your right, there should be a forum topic and some information pages on the subject.

[Sarah]

Perhaps a section under the Wiki?

[Chaunte]

There is a great book out there that is a fairly simple read.  It's titled Feminizing Hormonal Therapy for the Transgendered by Sheila Kirk, MD.

It goes in to good detail about what hormones are, how they work and the risks involved.  Better still is that it  is written so that you do not need a PhD in biochemistry to understand the material.

I read this book several times before going to see my physician to start HRT.  It allowed us to discuss a risk-benefit analysis without having to educate me ahead of time.

Chaunte

[Sarah]

Does it include herbals?

[Chaunte]

Does it include herbals?

What it does say is that herbals are a waste of time and money.  That the concentration of estrogen in herbs are nowhere near sufficient levels to cause changes.

The only way to cause a change is to use real chemisty, and use it at a substantially higher level than what a genetic female has in her bloodstream.

Regardless of the promises on the herbal bottle, it is snake oil.

Chaunte

[Sarah]

One of the problems is that they do cause some degree of breast growth.
However they also cause stroke, heart attack, and possibly severe metal poisoning, and death.
One of the reasons for the post on this and for the article was that everyone has been basically saying that.
And not any science to demonstrate the real side effects.

To get any effect, one has to take massively high dossages at one time, which is Realy, REaly Dangerous, as it increases the levels of all the other elements in the capsules too.
Some of which have life-threatening side effects.

It's important to present all of the infromation about this and not just dismiss it without explaining why.
People keep taking these without any kind of information on the side effects and toxic lethality.

Sara

[nickie]

I am glad that you all are exposing the scam called "Natural" and "Herbal". They are not regulated anyplace except in Germany, and I wouldn't trust any of them here. Before I was a nurse, and living as a stupid male, I almost lost a leg trying to treat a bad burn with "Herbals". The only thing that healed it was Silvadene and antibiotics. I think that people that insist on trying to induce breast growth with these things are uneducated, naive, unsophisticated, and just plain taking an unnecessary risk with their health. 

[Sarah]

Hi Nickie,
I wanted to take a moment to respond to you about this thread of herbals and herbal use for HRT.

Like you, I once tried to do somthing realy stupid with herbals.

I had a bad arm infection once, A serious one, life threatening, that I got from a cat bite.
Like you I tried to use herbals to clear it up. I attempted to use wheatgrass juice for the infection rather than antibiotics. It didn't work. It took more than three weeks on some realy powerful antibiotics to clear up the infection. I made a lot of people who realy cared about me realy worried, scared and angry at me for being so stupid. I realy didn't know any better either.

That's the things.
These things are meant as supplements.
And as supplements, they do work generaly.
They are meant for general, overall health and well being.
Not major medicine for major trauma or injury.
Not for diseases that are serious.
Or conditions that need real help and care.

These are meant for use for safe things, like overall health and well being.
Not for major issues.
Valerian root is great for use if you've got a minor cold.
But for the flu, or any major disease taht needed real treatment, I would go see my doctor.
That's what they are there for.
These things are not meant for the way people are misusing them.
I mean of you've got a minor sunburn, using Aloe Vera works great!
But for a second and third degree burn, you should see a doctor or an emergency room.
And not fool arround with it like I did on my arm.
I could have been killed.

There are real uses for these things that work and are effective.
But to use them for major trauma is not.

I just wanted tosay that, because I don't think it's fair to ostracise the use of the whole industry just because of my misuse and foolishness and stupidity.

I appreceiate your thoughts and caring.

Sara

[samanthawhalen]

Does it include herbals?

What it does say is that herbals are a waste of time and money.  That the concentration of estrogen in herbs are nowhere near sufficient levels to cause changes.

The only way to cause a change is to use real chemisty, and use it at a substantially higher level than what a genetic female has in her bloodstream.

Regardless of the promises on the herbal bottle, it is snake oil.

Chaunte

Yeah?  And, what "they" DON'T tell you is that NO hormones (herbal or prescription) will be effective without first knocking the Testosterone counts way down.  When the "T" counts are low, ANY form of estrogen-producing hormonal product is going to work.

Oh, and the whole "they cause heart attacks" mantra is pure crap.  It's being repeated on website after website after website, without any real proof.  It's such a blanket accusation it's not even funny.  Most of these accusations are coming from people that really have something at stake.  No, not your health.  Or, their health.  YOUR MONEY.  That's right, the businesses that produce these "prescription hormones" are raking in serious dough. 

Before you go off repeating something someone else is saying, check ALL the sources and all of THEIR sources.  Repeating something doesn't make it any more right.