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Who are you?

Started by Leigh, October 23, 2005, 01:05:08 PM

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Leigh

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for
and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool
for love
for your dream
for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon...
I want to know if you have touched the centre of your own sorrow
if you have been opened by life's betrayals
or have become shrivelled and closed
from fear of further pain.

I want to know if you can sit with pain
mine or your own
without moving to hide it
or fade it
or fix it.

I want to know if you can be with joy
mine or your own
if you can dance with wildness
and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes
without cautioning us to
be careful
be realistic
remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me
is true.
I want to know if you can
disappoint another
to be true to yourself.
If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.
If you can be faithless
and therefore trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see Beauty
even when it is not pretty
every day.
And if you can source your own life
from its presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure
yours and mine
and still stand at the edge of the lake
and shout to the silver of the full moon,
"Yes."

It doesn't interest me
to know where you live or how much money you have.
I want to know if you can get up
after the night of grief and despair
weary and bruised to the bone
and do what needs to be done
to feed the children.

It doesn't interest me who you know
or how you came to be here.
I want to know if you will stand
in the centre of the fire
with me
and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom
you have studied.
I want to know what sustains you
from the inside
when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone
with yourself
and if you truly like the company you keep
in the empty moments.



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Valerie

This is beautiful, Leigh...  It brought the slightest hint of a tear to me eye. It left me speechless...breathless even, with a strange fluttering in my chest such as what happens when I come face to face with Truth, Beauty, or the Divine.  Thank you for sharing this.... 
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beth

Beautiful Leigh,

                 I'm afraid I dont pass all the tests.

Who is the author, you?
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Leigh

I wish that I was talented enough to have put those words together.

I found it at a lesbian owned coffee house.  No one was given credit for authorship.

I never saw it as a test, just something to aspire to which I am sure no person can attain.

Edited to attribute authorship:

A high placed informant gave me the clue to find the author  http://www.oriahmountaindreamer.com/


  •  

Valerie

QuoteA high placed informant gave me the clue to find the author  http://www.oriahmountaindreamer.com/

Aw, damn! Someone's a better detective than moi ?   :o   (Tee-hee... :D)

Oh yeah...
QuoteI never saw it as a test, just something to aspire to which I am sure no person can attain.
I don't see it as a test, either...but it reminds me of who I want to be...



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unicorn

Thanks Leigh, for finding this... (I too thought you wrote this....)
it's a very worthy goal to aspire to... i hope I can achieve half of that...
will stick this one on my fridge...
thanks again
Alex
  •  

Debtv

What a lovely poem......it says "tell me who you are....not what others think...but the truth about youself?"

A poem that demands honesty.....right on!

Love
DebTV



  •  

Jessica

Leigh wrote the following:
Quote
I want to know if you can
disappoint another
to be true to yourself.
If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.
If you can be faithless
and therefore trustworthy.
...
I want to know if you can be alone
with yourself
and if you truly like the company you keep
in the empty moments.

This is sort of a merging of thoughts.

I have been thinking a lot about this particular poem ever since she wrote it.  There are a few key verses that I can relate to almost directly and I am not sure if it is good or bad or neither.

Good general definitions of the following (in my own words) are:
Selfish: Primarily Concerned with ones' Self.
Selfless: Primarily Concerned with Others.

Assumptions are:
Selfish is a bad moral / karmic value.
Selfless is a good moral / karmic value.

My analysis of these verses goes something like this.

If we create two laws from the verses listed above:
1.   Be true to yourself no matter what, even if it means betrayal of another.
2.   Be able to truly like yourself

Is it fair to betray someone even if it means not betraying yourself?  Does that make me selfish if I choose to betray another to be true to myself?

If you betray another person to be true to yourself are you still a good person?

If you do not betray another but are not being true to yourself have you done a good thing?  Would this be the selfless thing to do?

If you can be alone with yourself and you do not like the person you are.  Do you betray another person to be true to yourself?  If you do betray another person, will that betrayal cause you to not like the person you have become?

If you are faithless, meaning you have faith in nothing, what do you hold on to?  The obvious answer is yourself, your own confidence, but what if you don't have that confidence?  What if you can't gain that confidence without being true to yourself, but to be true to yourself, you have to betray another, and if you betray another then you won't like yourself for it, and therefore, you do not like yourself for what you have done, and then you do not gain the confidence to hold on to yourself.

Can you betray another and still be trusted?

With me, the two laws will always conflict
If I betray someone, I will not like myself for it.
If I don't I will never be able to be true to myself.

The only way they would ever be in harmony is if one of the following occurred:
1.   Betrayal was not selfish
2.   Selfish was not 'bad'

My personal take on things.
I was honest with my wife from the beginning, before we were married.  I told her about my issues with gender.  But I feel like that is just a defense I am using.  I can't help but feel like I would be betraying her because I did marry her. 

Marriage is a binding promise.  Intentionally doing something that I know would cause our divorce would be intentionally breaking that promise.  Intentionally breaking that promise would be betrayal.  Betrayal is selfish.  I would not be happy with myself for that action. 

I can't stay the same and be true to myself.  Any steps I take to be true to myself would lead to divorce, she has made that clear.  Therefore, any steps I take to be true to myself would knowingly lead to divorce and thereby be betrayal. 

There is no compromise between these two points.  Our two views are diametrically opposed.

So one of them has to be broken
Either I betray to be true to myself ... which would be selfish?
Or I do not betray and am not true to myself... which would be selfless?

I can not keep both laws, it isn't possible, only one of them.
  •  

Dennis

I think the poem said "accusations of betrayal". It doesn't follow that because you are accused of betrayal, you are guilty of it.

I disagree that selflessness at the expense of yourself is a thing to be valued. If you don't take care of yourself, nobody else will. You have to be able to distinguish needs from wants to avoid being truly selfish, though.

If you are looking after your needs, you are not being selfish. You are being sane. If someone accuses you of betrayal for doing that, then they are putting their wants above your needs. If it is your wants versus their wants, it's still not selfish to want to take care of yourself, but compromise would be more warranted in my opinion.

Dennis
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Jessica

I guess I am looking at it as:  I made a promise and breaking that promise *would be* betrayal, not just an accusation of betrayal.

Selflessness at the expense of yourself isn't valued?  Why?  I mean, that is the definition of selfless isn't it?  Putting someone's needs / wants ahead of your own.  To say that selflessness at the expense of yourself isn't valued is the same as saying selflessness isn't valued.
  •  

Dennis

I don't think it's a particularly useful social value, selflessness at your own expense. Even Mother Teresa kept herself alive by eating and THEN caring for others. Again, it's a needs/wants thing. If you destroy yourself in helping others, what have you achieved? Martyrdom?

Each of us needs different things. I need a lot of downtime where I'm not working in order to be most effective at helping people at work. If I don't service that need, then I can't help others, or I burn out quickly. I'm more useful to others if I care for myself first.

It seems awfully black and white to say 'I made a promise and now I must stick to it, no matter what.' People's circumstances change. One should avoid breaking promises, for sure, but if keeping a promise means that you die in the process or become a shell of yourself, then what good have you done by keeping that promise?

Betrayal would be breaking a promise for selfish reasons. I promised to take my child to the movie. I decided to go out for drinks instead. That's betrayal.

I promised to take my child to the movie. My car broke down and I got stuck on the highway. That's unfortunate, but it's not betrayal. That's when you negotiate a change to the promise. Something beyond your control has made it difficult or impossible to fulfill the promise. Sure, you could leave your car by the side of the road, possibly in a place where it's not safe, and use your credit card to take a taxi and incur debt that you can't afford, but isn't it more sensible to talk to the child and say something happened, my car broke down, can we go to the movies another time?

As humans, I don't think rigid rules for behaviour always give the best result. I think a principled approach to analysis (which, hopefully does not slide over into rationalizing poor behaviour) yields a more consistently just and good result.

Dennis
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Bmore

Thanks Leigh, righteous poem.
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Debtv

lovely poem.....as we only can be honest...............

  •  

Terri-Gene

All this talk of betrayal, selfishness, and self worth over the poem.  It is hard for me to think that far when all I see is a question.  "Will you stand with me and by me for what I believe?".

Its all as simple as that.  If one encounters problems for doing what they believe is correct, will you brave the fire they are stepping into?  For me, I find it beautiful, as it is a description of love and commitment to another.

For the right person, I would, all of it.

I can remember Leigh quoting this to me in an IM one night almost a year ago.  I did not know if she had wrote it or not, but the meaning of it touched me at my bottom nerve. 

Note that the poem did not forcast any attempt at actual denial or sensless betrayal, only asking if you could stand with the one you were allied with.

Terri
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