Does everyone have a few friends like this?

[Dizzy]

Harro,

I've had some pretty sad things come up in conversation with my friends and I don't know how to approach it. Some examples:

Last night I was at a campfire with a few of my best friends from high school and somehow they got onto the topic of Thomas on Oprah. Somebody says "Speaking of pregnant they had that pregnant guy on Oprah" then my totally ignorant and sheltered friend says "Uhg I hate how everyone is calling it a "he" its not a he its a she; all she did was cut off her boobs. Ect. Ect." My other friends who know all too well his crap said "Yeah, yeah yeah" with me to get him to leave it alone. But this isn't the first time stuff like this comes up. Its so hard to keep my mouth shut because if I were to say, no, HE is a HE and HE worked very hard for it against people like you then my friends will know somethings up you know?

Its not the first time either, my friend that was going into the services came to me and said "I don't want to go into the Navy. What if I get put on a submarine and I'm stuck there with a GAY person." I just stared at him and said "You really need to knock that crap off if you're going to make it anywhere in the world. Someday you're going to say that to the wrong person and get the crap beat out of you." Little did he know he was talking to the wrong person :p

I have a hundred more examples! I live in a small community but this stuff even happens with my friends in the city. Do you all have or did have problems with friends like this as you were going through your journey? I know my therapist says there will be a "weeding out" of my friends, those who stay and are true and those who don't. But I want to keep the weeds!! They're still good people! They just have some some bad world views...

Whatcha think? o_o

Dee.

[LynnER]

I had a friend sort of like this...  Its taken a long time, and a lot of work, and its still going to take more time and a lot more work to get it through his thick skull...    But you do have to remember to pick your battles...  Some people are thick as a brick and getting them to learn anything is pretty much impossible.

You can cure ignorance... but you cant cure stupidity... If hes just ignorant... work with him...  But then again you have to be willing to be out inorder to do this properly...  Sometimes it takes adding a human face to the "Its", "Things", "Freaks" and so on... But if there just willingly stupid... theres nothing you can do so just drop him as a friend... and avoid him.  Hope this helps even just a little.

[Laura91]

I only had a couple of longtime friends so I do not worry about things like that. We ended up losing touch since they got families, jobs, etc, just the usual stuff. Although one of them knows about my transition now since I spoke to him around a year ago and he said that he was okay with it. However, if he ever actually comes by to visit me again that is another story. I ran into him recently at the grocery store but we didn't talk too much since we were both busy. It was just the usual 'hey, how ya doing?' kind of stuff. The other friend I haven't seen in a quite awhile so I am not sure what he would say about all of this. But, if I do run into him and we end up talking about things (i.e.: catching up) I will bring it up since...well,  it IS noticeable that something is going on at this point. But whatever happens is what happens.

[Elincubus]

I haven't really got this problem with actual friends, but with lots of acquaintances and class mates.

I would definitely correct them if they said something really insulting or stupid like in your example, but it's more the casual, mostly unconscious stuff that really bugs me.
Like the 'That's soo gay!' every other minute. I just don't want to correct them all day long--doesn't work anyway. I once told a girl in my class (that is otherwise so very PC) how hypocritic she was. She said she agreed with me, but five minutes later something was 'sooo gay!' again...

Transexuals aren't really that much of a topic...they even almost behaved okay, as an (obvious) MtF studednt visited our school once because she and some other students were doing a query about some topic.

[Dizzy]

Sometimes it takes adding a human face to the "Its", "Things", "Freaks" and so on...

Totally, I'm kind of counting on that. I don't want to be that person in the corner that makes everyone afraid to speak, walking on eggshells because they might offend but... if they knew that they knew a trans gendered person I think that will bring things into perspective. I'm hoping they'll all go oh.. I'm ignorant.. now i'm curious haha.

Like the 'That's soo gay!' every other minute.

Oh my god, you hit it right on the head. I can let this stuff slide a lot but with some groups of guys its every other sentence "thats so gay, know how I know you're gay? gayer than.. blah blah". I told one group of my friends that I had a BF... since he was moving in and for like the first week it was awkward but when they realized I hadn't actually changed... it was all back to normal, gay this, gay that x)

Then one drunken card night my friend got onto this tirade about "we've been friends too long for me to care. We're still cool that you're gay.." and when I told them "I'm not gay." you should have seen their confusion haha.



Posted on: April 06, 2008, 02:27:37 PM

[21:39] him: I don't understand why any of those things matter. They're superficialities, and I think you're using this as a cover for a deepr problem.
[21:39] Me: Haha
[21:40] Me: You're so wrong its not funny :3
[21:40] Me: but I did laugh
[21:42] him: Tell me, what changes? You'll never actually be a woman. You'll never bear children, have a period, lactate, go through menopause, or any of the other things that an actual woman goes through. You're insecure with some other part of you.
[21:42] Me: I think you have a problem defining what a woman is.
[21:42] Me: Many women never bear children, have a period, lactate...
[21:43] him: Boys have penises, girls have vagina. Mutiliate your penis all you want, you'll never have a vagina.
[21:43] Me: Haha
[21:43] Me: the things that seperate men and women aren't purely physical
[21:43] Me: I guess you have to figure that out yet
[21:44] him: To me, that's all that seperates them. I treat them both equally-I've known strong women and submissive men. Nothing surprises me when it comes to gender anymore, and I have no notion of what a gender role should entail.
[21:45] Me: Then I guess you're the confused one.
[21:51] him: There is a difference. I am bisexual. I do find both sexual and emotional gratification in both sexes. You will never be a woman. It is impossible. You're merely giving into what you perceive to be society's expectations of you.
[21:52] Me: I'll be dressing the way society wants to see me for sure but to say I'll never be a woman is extremely ignorant. I may never have all the physical things a woman has but then you will never have some of the things I consider a man to have.
[21:52] Me: Thats doesn't mean you're not a man.
[21:53] him: Regardless, the fact is I am a man, and so are you. There is nothing wrong with your body, and I don't see why you're rejecting it. It's not only adequate but it is beautiful.
[21:54] Me: How is that a fact? :p
[21:54] him: I am a man, and so are you. Ask any doctor.
[21:54] Me: I did.
[21:54] Me: And they prescribed me estrogen.
[21:54] Me: Smarta-- :p
[21:55] him: I'm guessing it wasn't a medical doctor, but some form of psychiatrist.
[21:56] Me: Your ignorance is shining. Via the standards I need to see a psychiatrist for at least 6 months before I can be prescribed hormones. Not only does the psychiatrist hold a doctorate but they can't prescribe me anything. They referr me to a medical doctor who did my blood work, prescribed me medication and is watching over me.
[21:57] Me: So actually, by two doctors.
[21:57] Me: Three if you count the other doctor that wanted to treat me.
[21:57] Me: M.D.

Thats one of my friends over AIM. How do I deal with people like this? Sheesh :/

[Krisstina]

You know just because a person or persons goes alone with the group and talks bad about a group of people or a person who is different doesn't really indicate how they might really think deep down about the subject.

I know this because I myself have said things while under peer  pressure I did not mean!! I know I didn't mean it cause I was speaking of myself.

Don't judge people so fast you might be surprised at how much the will or are willing to understand. Also always remember everyone is entitled to their reaction and everyone has a right to say what they feel just as you have a right to be who you are. No one is required to like you because it is politically correct or politically incorrect.

I think if you have expectations that are the same as any normal red blooded human you might find life lives up to that and you will live a relatively normal social life with normal ups and downs go as far as what is  expected of people in general. This is regardless of who you are.

Well I am an optimistic person and always have been so hope this helps.


Kristina

[Pica Pica]

Of course calling things 'gay' is not really anything to do with 'gayness'. The word has acquired yet another meaning, if they actually saw something they wanted to decribe as homosexual they'd probably call it '->-bleeped-<-' something or 'homo' - or whatever. Indeed, classroom research has found out that gay is one of the words least used to actually describe something considered homosexual.

[Jay]

Of course calling things 'gay' is not really anything to do with 'gayness'. The word has acquired yet another meaning, if they actually saw something they wanted to decribe as homosexual they'd probably call it '->-bleeped-<-' something or 'homo' - or whatever. Indeed, classroom research has found out that gay is one of the words least used to actually describe something considered homosexual.

Yes young children.. well.. 13 to 18 use it as a phrase now adays! (God I sound Old) 


I have lost one friend who was my closet friend for 8 years because he didn't support what I was doing. However many people see it as do what you have to do.. some people find it exciting.. strange.. intriging..

[Elincubus]

Don't judge people so fast you might be surprised at how much the will or are willing to understand. Also always remember everyone is entitled to their reaction and everyone has a right to say what they feel just as you have a right to be who you are. No one is required to like you because it is politically correct or politically incorrect.

I know this and I don't judge them because of things they obviously do because everybody else is doing it too. But I do correct them if they would say something really over the top, especially when they seem to actually believe it.
The reason (mean) jokes about gays or transexuals annoy me so much is not because I think it's only okay to make fun of something if I don't belong to that group, but because it's mostly about idiotic stereotypes a vast majority still believes in.
And it just annoys me a lot that everytime somebody calls something "gay" I'm reminded that we live in a society that is so ignorant that something like "gay" can still be a real insult.

Of course calling things 'gay' is not really anything to do with 'gayness'. The word has acquired yet another meaning, if they actually saw something they wanted to decribe as homosexual they'd probably call it '->-bleeped-<-' something or 'homo' - or whatever. Indeed, classroom research has found out that gay is one of the words least used to actually describe something considered homosexual.

Maybe this is so, maybe it isn't. but I've never been inside an classroom with English speaking students and "schwul" is definitely the the most common German word to describe a homosexual (and they use the German equivalent for "->-bleeped-<-" all the time, as well).

[Floating]

This reminds me of my oldest friend who has started to become very closed minded.

We were both Catholic when we were growing up, but we both quickly became athiest. About 6 years ago however he suddenly became very religious.  It was really right out of the blue and nobody was expecting it.  He's still my friend but I'm extremely hesitant about telling him about anything that's going on with me at the moment.

Anyway, some of his opinions on things startle me quite a bit, but he's my oldest friend, so while I really wish he'd change his opinions I usually find myself just nodding along when he comments on controversial subjects.  I don't verbally agree with him and at most I give him an apathetic response, a shrug of my shoulders or something.  But I usually succumb to the fear of loosing my friend and don't stick up for myself or my beliefs like I should.

[tekla]

Indeed, 'gay' has gone beyond an ID for people of the homosexual preference.  Its used as a pejorative in places where perhaps "lame," "crappy," "cheesey," were once used.  I know Gay People who use 'gay' in that way.

I did two shows with My Chemical Romance last week.  A less talented group of posers in clothes with guitars is pretty hard to find.  And a person on the staff, a gay man at that, reviewed the show to me thusly: "They were the gayest band I've ever seen.  They were gayer than the Pet Shop Boys, and the Pet Shop Boys were gay." 

[Dizzy]

I did two shows with My Chemical Romance last week.  A less talented group of posers in clothes with guitars is pretty hard to find.  And a person on the staff, a gay man at that, reviewed the show to me thusly: "They were the gayest band I've ever seen.  They were gayer than the Pet Shop Boys, and the Pet Shop Boys were gay."

Who's talking about MCR like that??  >:F  "Cemetery Drive" was my theme song forever... What do you mean you did two shows? Played with? Its a good thing the guy wasn't commenting on an AFI show. Davey Havok is way prettier

[gothique11]

yeah, people are like that. I've over heard conversations on the street, conversations at work, etc, etc. And some people mentioned it to me (not knowing my trans history). Previously, I've only occasionally ran into someone, or talked to someone at work who brought the trans issue  up. Like, for example, one girl who used to work at my work was complaining about people transitioning and how they aren't really women and have no idea, blah, blah, blah -- oh, and that she could spot trans people really easily (lol). Of course, she didn't know who she was talking to, but that's how thick some people can be at times.

As for friends, I generally don't hang around people that think that way.

--natalie