Can you date before surgery?

[amy2003]

This subject is usually beat to death around here, and I believe I have even brought it up myself, but I need some opinions anyway...

I met this guy at work a few weeks ago.  He only has reason to come to my office once or twice a week.  When I met him I didn't think much of him.  Just another guy.  Then he started flirting with me last week.  Then I had to call him for something work related and he started talking about how beautiful I was.  Then he came in one day to get me to go to lunch with him.  (About at this point I'm thinking he's actually pretty nice, and kinda cute, too.)  So he came in today and there was nobody there but me.  So he sat down and hung out with me for while.  I developed those oh-so-familiar butterflies in the stomach as he charms me.  He asked me out many times in this conversation, in many different ways, and I just kept putting him off with things like, "Well, how about you come see me again?"

If I was post-op I would go out with him.  If he turned out to be a sleezeball, well, that's the breaks.  But I would give him a chance.  But I'm not post-op.  So I tell myself I can't go out with him.  But my question for the girls who have been through this horrible part of transition is can't I?  Did you ever go out with guys pre-op, and if so how did it work out?  I should mention that I am still functional, meaning on a first date if I like what I am experiencing I won't be able to get up from the table.  And there does not have to be any touching, either.  Oh, and I am stealth at work and I need to remain so.

Can a girl out with a guy, let him pay for whatever, all the while having no intentions of ever getting physical?  Or would that be considered leading him on?  To me I think it would be, but some friends of mine don't seem to think so.

I need some opinions here, girls!

Thanks,

Amy

[TamTam]

You could always just tell him that for religious or personal reasons, you don't 'put out' on a first date.. it's perfectly acceptable, and to be honest, if it bothers him that much that you won't be having sex right now, then he's not that great, heh.  He should be willing to wait, no matter how much he buys you.

It's one of the first things my mom told me.. "If he's not willing to wait, don't do it!"

[Kt]

I've found it's worth it to be upfront with people about one's status, that way you'll never dig yourself into a deeper hole.
Besides, who knows, maybe he'll say "You know I've heard about transsexuals, and I don't think it's a problem for me." or something to that tune.
If it puts him off, no big loss.
I think it's best to try and find the person who accepts you for who you are, rather than stress out about hiding one's past and/or anatomy.

[deniz]

it is a risk.However, it is a risk, i have many times experienced.In your shoes i would jeopardize my stealth status( cause if you go out with him, you might have the need to tell him), in order to have a wonderful man-to-woman-experience(wine,food,music).These things are great, and being able to date with whom you desire is also one of the reasons of my transition.Go for it.Good luck,keep your secrets to your self and try not to be completely alone(eg in his house))Best of luck.and update plz

[amy2003]

This is the point in the morning where I remind myself that I am just fooling myself if I think I can date right now, unless I want to give up my job as I know it, and most likely have to stop saving for surgery. 

Telling him right now is not an option, especially upfront.  As someone harped on in another thread, there ARE a lot of bigots where I live, and while not everyone is, I have to assume he would be, because if I told him and he was, there goes my job, because he would no doubt tell everyone where I work and they would fire me or I would have to quit.  And there goes money for surgery.

Some people ask what difference it will make to tell a guy my history post-op rather than pre-op?  To me actually having a penis would scare most guys a lot more than previously having one.  And I could first date him for a few weeks without having to worry about getting a &#*@ing erection.

I suppose the only way I could "safely" date before surgery would be if I met a guy away from work and could start dating him.  That way if he didn't approve and decided to be mouthy about it he wouldn't actually know everyone I work with.

Just thinking out loud, here.

Amy

[Lisbeth]

The first thing you need to do is get over this idea that having sex with your date is payment for taking you out.  Drop it in the ash can!  Giving your body to a guy is a gift, not payment.  It has to be your choice to offer sex, not obligation.

As to whether you date or not, that's a function of whether you feel comfortable doing that and whether you feel safe with the gentleman. 

[JENNIFER]

I have not come into this situation in terms of dating, BUT, there is this chap at the theatre where I do volunteer work and although he probably knows what I am ( he says 'sir' and 'mate' a lot and then corrects himself apologetically ) he continually treats me as a lady of a certain age.  He is a Gentleman at heart being in his '70s, a lovely man and I guess he seeks female company rather than any sexual dalliances.

Added to this, there is a young chappie among the technical backstage crew, he could be a TS himself given his demeanour and feminine looks. He hasnt spoken to me yet but I am aware of his interest.  Now, I am not a functional being, my male bits have never functioned in anger and simply only do the liquid waste disposal thing. I cannot be aroused in a male sexual context no matter what stimulus is applied yet I could never allow myself to get into a situation where sex might become an item upon the agenda.  I am not prepared to take the risk in case the man involved suddenly becomes hostile due to his raised ardour and thus not getting his satisfaction. 

To be brutally honest with you all, I have trod a path of transition based upon being a 'lesbian', in that if any relationship was to develop, it would be with a female be it genetic or transsexual in nature. If in time I find myself able in my own mind, maybe I might finally be able to function as a female in all respects with the sad exception of child rearing 

[Nero]

I agree with what Lisbeth and others have said here about worrying about sex on the first or second, or third date. If he's expecting that, he's not the kind of a guy you want to see anyhow.
Believe it or not, there are still men out there who'd woo you slowly and gently.

If you go out and he expects it - get insulted like a lot of women would.

[lisagurl]

Dating people at work can be a problem especially when things do not work out. It would be nice for you to offer to pay your half. I doubt he would let you.

[amy2003]

The first thing you need to do is get over this idea that having sex with your date is payment for taking you out.  Drop it in the ash can!  Giving your body to a guy is a gift, not payment.  It has to be your choice to offer sex, not obligation.

As to whether you date or not, that's a function of whether you feel comfortable doing that and whether you feel safe with the gentleman. 

Lisbeth, your post is the one that stuck in my mind.  This guy has called me several times since then, and I have to admit, when the phone rings I hope it is him.  He lives in Atlanta, so the distance will probably help us from getting too close to get physical.  He "says" he just wants to take me out and he's not asking me to marry him or even kiss him if I don't want to.  "It's just a movie" is what he said.  So it looks like I will go out with him   I've never been on a date with a guy before.  I have no worries of passing, it's just weird, you know?  I am starting to see that it's not that big of a deal to go out with a guy a few times, as long as his hands don't wander.  Maybe a kiss.  I just hope I don't get too attached and then have to rip my own heart out by having to stop seeing him.

Amy

[deniz]

amy when do you plan surgery.distance can make him wait for 8-12 months.take advantage of that.My ex bf went to the army.so for 12 months he will be off.i am saving like crazy and although i have the money, i still have doubts whether i will have grs for me or for the fear of losing him for ever.so i just wait......

[amy2003]

Well, I told my boss I was going to go out with this guy and now my boss is jealous.  Great!  He said, "You won't go out to lunch with me!"  Well, he's 52 years old.  He claims he just wants a lunch partner, not a date.  I believed that until he obviously got frazzled over this.

I guess this isn't really a frustration that just women have to deal with.  A woman would get jealous if she asked a guy out, he kept saying no, and then he went out with another female co-worker.

[gothique11]

I've dated several people and I'm pre-op. Some of the people I dated didn't know, but I usually told people. it can be difficult, because you feel as if you don't know how they will react, etc.

[amy2003]

I've dated several people and I'm pre-op. Some of the people I dated didn't know, but I usually told people. it can be difficult, because you feel as if you don't know how they will react, etc.

Thanks for the reply Gothique.  It's nice to know that some people do it that way.

He and I have begun talking a couple times a day, and we've talked about sex, kissing, etc.  Not too happy about how fast it is progressing.  I feel like by the time we finally go out (he won't be in town until next week) he's going to feel comfortable enough to get physical.  But at the same time I really enjoy talking to him, and enjoy the thought of getting pysical with him.

I had an interesting (although far-fetched) idea this morning.  His voice is very high.  In fact, because my voice is low and his is high, I think he has the higher voice.  Very strange.  But then it occured to me that perhaps he is FtM?  Then I dismissed that as dumb.  But then I remembered that he said when he was married that they couldn't have kids and had adopted two boys instead.  Hmmm.  Would be interesting.  Might explain why he is so determined to go out with me, if he read me.  Wouldn't bother me if he did.  I can tell other TS's in a heartbeat.

[NicholeW.]

Can a girl out with a guy, let him pay for whatever, all the while having no intentions of ever getting physical?  Or would that be considered leading him on?  To me I think it would be, but some friends of mine don't seem to think so.

You think of a date as something that's quid pro quo? He pays for dinner and you take care of his sexual urges?

My goodness! Where did you learn that?

Women always seem to be given the "responsibility" for men's sexual urges. If they are attracted its 'her that made him that way." If they cat-call "she shouldn't be provocative." He wants to get bedded so he pays for dinner "she has an obligation to put out. " How lame.

He invites you out. You want to go. Agree about payment beforehand and make it clear you don't want sexual contact. And be firm on it.

You are hardly responsible for his agenda and seeing it through to whatever completion he may have decided on. If you feel you may be inclined to give it up ... then I would make sure he knows about your pre-op status and that you talk to him in a very public space and have an independent exit plan. 

N~

[Melissa]

I feel I can chime in here since I have been dating quite a while and am still pre-op.  The simple answer is yes, you can date.  However, if you wish to pursue an intimate relationship, I have found through experience that when a person knows you are pre-op TS from the onset, the relationship works out MUCH better.  I've tried the get to know each other route first and that seems to have a much lower chance of success due to the lack of honesty on your part, which is a key element in a good relationship.  Just so you know, I have been dating both men and women for about the past 5 months and currently have a boyfriend.

Important points to tell are:
- You are TS
- You are pre-op
- You are planning on surgery
- How long you have known you were female

Those are generally the questions that come up first with people.  People also tend to be fascinated by the details.  Also, if it helps, in my experience, guys have tended to be more accepting than women.  IMO, the best approach is to not advertise you are TS so you can avoid ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s, but also come out almost immediately to the person if you like them.  You will never be able to relax until you do.  Many times you will get comments like "I would have never known" or "But you are so naturally female", which can be a big self esteem booster.

Another important point is to not let guys go past a point where you don't feel comfortable.  If he is decent (and many seem to be), he will back off so that you are feeling more comfortable.

[amy2003]

You think of a date as something that's quid pro quo? He pays for dinner and you take care of his sexual urges?

My goodness! Where did you learn that?

No, I don't.  I didn't mean on the first date.  I meant in general.  To me it seems like the natural progression of dating.  It's like going to a theme park... you stand in enough lines, you expect to at least ride a rollercoaster at some point in time.

I feel I can chime in here since I have been dating quite a while and am still pre-op.  The simple answer is yes, you can date.  However, if you wish to pursue an intimate relationship, I have found through experience that when a person knows you are pre-op TS from the onset, the relationship works out MUCH better.  I've tried the get to know each other route first and that seems to have a much lower chance of success due to the lack of honesty on your part, which is a key element in a good relationship.  Just so you know, I have been dating both men and women for about the past 5 months and currently have a boyfriend.

Important points to tell are:
- You are TS
- You are pre-op
- You are planning on surgery
- How long you have known you were female

Those are generally the questions that come up first with people.  People also tend to be fascinated by the details.  Also, if it helps, in my experience, guys have tended to be more accepting than women.  IMO, the best approach is to not advertise you are TS so you can avoid ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s, but also come out almost immediately to the person if you like them.  You will never be able to relax until you do.  Many times you will get comments like "I would have never known" or "But you are so naturally female", which can be a big self esteem booster.

Another important point is to not let guys go past a point where you don't feel comfortable.  If he is decent (and many seem to be), he will back off so that you are feeling more comfortable.

Melissa, when you tell these guys (or girls) and they react badly, do they go back and tell your boss where you work and are stealth?  I have yet to meet a guy that wasn't associated with work, which is a frustration of mine.  If I met someone away from work, I might try your approach.  However...

Even though I give you enormous credit because you actually have experience doing what you suggest and I do not, I can not imagine the majority of the guys hearing on the first date that I am a pre-op transexual and being only intrigued and continue to have a sexual relationship with me.  Maybe it's because I live in Alabama, though.  There are bigots out and about.  They drive trucks and tote guns.  Oh, and I work with some of them!

Amy

P.S. Again, thanks for the replies!  I appreciate all of them

[Melissa]

Melissa, when you tell these guys (or girls) and they react badly, do they go back and tell your boss where you work and are stealth?  I have yet to meet a guy that wasn't associated with work, which is a frustration of mine.  If I met someone away from work, I might try your approach.  However...

Even though I give you enormous credit because you actually have experience doing what you suggest and I do not, I can not imagine the majority of the guys hearing on the first date that I am a pre-op transexual and being only intrigued and continue to have a sexual relationship with me.  Maybe it's because I live in Alabama, though.  There are bigots out and about.  They drive trucks and tote guns.  Oh, and I work with some of them!

Amy

P.S. Again, thanks for the replies!  I appreciate all of them

I don't know.  I'm only semi-stealth at work (less than half know due to lots of turnover), I live in a more liberal area, and I've never had a "bad reaction" from a guy.  I would imagine your age and looks would also play a role in how well stuff went.  I wouldn't think a guy would suddenly do a 180 from falling for you to hating you if you were sincere and told him before you did anything physical with him.  Then again, I also wouldn't recommend dating at work if you are stealth.  I was just giving you my input to let you know that it IS possible to date while still being pre-op.  Perhaps you might consider "practicing" with guys outside of work via dating sites, etc.  Just a thought.  Good luck anyhow.

[amy2003]

An update...  I went to lunch with him Monday and it was great!  It felt like there was nobody outside of the booth we were sitting in, and I had a great time.  Tuesday night I left him a voice message telling him that I really thought it a good idea NOT for him to call me 3 or 4 times a day, just because it was scaring me how fast it things were moving.  We went out last night.  Casual dinner at Applebee's and then we just drove around town.  He put his hand on mine at the restauraunt and from that moment forward he was a different person, seemily only intent on seeing how much he could get.  He never tried anything below the neck, but he seemed obsessed with staring in my eyes like it was romantic or something... it wasn't.  We held hands a lot, and we kind of made-out when he was dropping me at my car.  That was nice, except for the massive erection tucked underneath me.  I told him I didn't need him to walk me to my car, so it never became obvious, but it hurt like a %$#@*!!!

All in all a good experience, if nothing else because I have more experience to draw from as a woman now.  I've been on what was obviously two dates with a guy.  That's still pretty cool to me.

I don't know.  I'm only semi-stealth at work (less than half know due to lots of turnover), I live in a more liberal area, and I've never had a "bad reaction" from a guy.  I would imagine your age and looks would also play a role in how well stuff went.  I wouldn't think a guy would suddenly do a 180 from falling for you to hating you if you were sincere and told him before you did anything physical with him.  Then again, I also wouldn't recommend dating at work if you are stealth.  I was just giving you my input to let you know that it IS possible to date while still being pre-op.  Perhaps you might consider "practicing" with guys outside of work via dating sites, etc.  Just a thought.  Good luck anyhow.

I appreciate the input, Melissa, and hope I didn't come across as argumentative.  I appreciate the time anybody takes on a forum to post their opinion and experiences.