Seeking advice

[daywalker]

hi all

I'm new to this forum and have come here seeking some advice. I really don't mean to offend anyone, so apologies in advance if I do. I don't quite know where to begin...right. Basically, I'm a straight guy as far as I'm concerned, but ever since I've been sexually active, I have had an attraction to pre-op TS/TGs. I've sought advice on a few other places, but most of them have been very quick to pigeon-hole me as "gay" and so on, some even going to the extent of saying I'm a self-hating homosexual while also being homophobic (simply not true, I have many gay friends for one thing).

For me, it is quite clear: I'm attracted to girls who have, shall we say, something extra. I've never dated a Tgirl (really don't want to offend anyone with this term, please forgive any ignorance on my behalf), or slept with one, but I am strongly sexually attracted to them. I've looked high and low for people who are in a similar situation, but there seem to be none out there. I haven't "come out" as such, because I don't know how to identify myself. In some ways, I don't want to fit into a box someone else has made and put a label on, but at the same time, I do, because at least then I would feel I have something to identify with. I hope some of you can relate to this.

Do any of you know someone in a similar situation? Also, I should probably add that as far as I'm concerned, Tgirls (again, sorry, please correct me), are women, not men, not confused, and not anything else that people tend to dismiss them as, other than highly attractive and erotic to me personally. I guess what I'm asking is, is there a "label" for feeling this way, other than "gay" which nearly everyone on the internet has suggested, because that just doesn't fit for me. And finally, I have a girlfriend, who I'm in love with, but has no idea about this attraction. I'm not entirely sure her views on these kind of things, but I'm worried she may be a little conservative and quite possibly freak out if I was to tell her.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, please, fire away

thanks

[Osiris]

First off, there are a lot of guys like you. There's an entire genre in the porn industry dedicated to straight guys who are into pre-op transsexuals. So you're not alone or weird. That being said there's a difference between a fantasy and a fetish and if you continue to obsess over this it could become a fetish, if it's not already.

Do you really need to have a label for this attraction? Are you that insecure about your sexuality that you have to over analyze this to death?

Just relax and stop obsessing dude.

[Sandy]

Not to get too deep in this, but, if you expect to have a long term relationship with a pre-op woman, then you may have your hopes dashed.  Or at least have to go on an extended search.

Many if not most transsexual women who have extensively feminized their bodies (and aren't in the porn industry) consider themselves in a transitory/temporary state and will eventually have GRS.

How will you feel about this person when they no longer have that "something extra"?  Will the thrill go out of the relationship?  Will you continue to stand by her?

Yes there are women who intend to stay pre-op and have no intension of having GRS.  But is that your opening line to them?  "Hi! Can I buy you a drink?  Do you intend to stay pre-op?"

I don't mean to be short with you, but many trans women have had their hearts broken by people who were infatuated with a womans body more than they were interested with their soul.

Also I don't mean to say that your particular interest is wrong or somehow immoral.  All I am saying is that in searching for a relationship, having good communication with the person on the inside is probably one of the first things you should look for.

As far as your "gayness" quotient, I wouldn't worry about it.  You sound respectful and forthright about your opinion of pre-op women and women in general.  And if you have no attraction to even effeminate males, then you are probably not "gay".

That being said, if you are wanting to look for pre-op trans women, you will more than likely find them on the LGBT dating services.  Eharmony and other "straight" sites probably don't get many women who label themselves as transgender.  I've never used either so I can't really say for sure though.

Your girlfriend will most definitely freak out.  But probably not from what you think.  No matter how you describe it she would think that you would be asking her for permission to sleep with another woman.  I cannot see anything good coming from that.  However having open and honest communication about how both of you *feel* is generally good for a relationship.  But acting on those fantasies could end the relationship.  Tread very carefully.

To my knowledge there is no clinical definition of men with an attraction to pre-op trans women.  There is a term that is considered by many to be derogatory.  That term is ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-.

-Sandy(I moonlight as Ann Landers on weekends)

[cindianna_jones]

It is very difficult to use labels to paint a complete picture.  We often have discussions concerning the labels already defined. In fact, I just started a thread about a new label.  See:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,35493.0.html

How bout if we just call you "Daywalker"?

Are you attracted to the person or their body?  Will the physical contact or having a soul mate ultimately make you more happy?  Only you will be able to resolve the questions you pose. 

Understand that many of us here have had similar feelings and are struggling to find the best direction we should pursue.  In your quest, make sure that you direct your actions in a positive manner.  Don't do anything that is self destructive (having two relationships at once for example). It's also very important to be completely open with your partner.

Learn to understand the difference between lust and love.  Go for the love and keep it safe. 

Good luck to you.

- Cindi  (I am Ann Landers during the week... thanks for filling in on weekends Sandy)

[Lokaeign]

Mmm... the label I would use, were I looking for a label, would be fetishism.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a fetish; many people do, and as long as the fetishistic attraction forms part of a healthy emotional landscape there's nothing at all to be worried about.

My concern would be that you seem to be fetishising a particular physical configuration here.  Now, there is nothing bad about being attracted to that physical configuration, anymore than it's bad to like big-bodied women or tall women or redheaded women.  The  thing to be careful of is that you don't lose sight of the fact that there's a woman inside that attractive body with her own emotions and needs--perhaps even more vulnerable and sensitive than the average woman.  If you're just with her for that "something extra," will you treat her with the respect and affection she deserves?  As Kassandra has already said, pre-operative implies that there's a post-operative stage in the future.  Bluntly, it's not okay to get your ya-yas at the expense of someone's broken heart.  If you're likely to be less attracted to a woman when she doesn't have that physical configuration anymore, you should probably be thinking about escorts rather than dates. 


There's also the matter of your existing relationship.  Sooner or later you're going to either decide that you can put aside this attraction for the sake of your girlfriend's "conservative" veiws, or you're going to have to bite the bullet and tell her about it.  It would be seriously uncool to go behind her back.  Perhaps you'll find her less conservative than you expected.


Maybe instead of involving another woman with all the potential for heartache and damage to her and your girlfriend's self-esteem that this might entail, you could think about games and toys that would give your current SO that "something extra."  Again, respect for her own inclinations would be the key here.  Try broaching the subject in the abstract first to test the waters, and proceed with sensitivity and tact.

[feliciahawthorn]

Renee Reyes has a wonderful site for admirers and can be found at:

http://www.reneereyes.com/Webdocs/adm-1-00-mtintro.html

[Lutin]

Hey hon,

Don't stress. Zen...

I honestly have no idea about it (other than personally thinking that there's nothing wrong with it and from what I've read here you're not weird or anything at all), but I suggest you go into the Androgyne talk section and have a look at Pica Pica's thread and video "Labels" (it's about half-way down the page). Really, it's worth it. It a) talks about putting people in boxes, and b) should make you smile.

All the best,

Lutin

[NicholeW.]

You've gotten some really quite good responses here, Daywalker. Lokaeign, Osiris, Week-end Anne and Weekday Anne have just done excellent jobs.

I can only stress once more what all of them have said: just remember that you are dealing with real-live people who have hearts and feelings. Neither your current gf nor any possible trans woman who comes into your life are simply there as tools for you own satisfaction. They also need care and satisfaction in their relationships.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, make sure the heart is just as good. As I am hopeful that you will.

Nichole

[daywalker]

Thanks to all of you for the replies. They've been extremely helpful, and far more understanding than I've previously had. Thanks in particular to Feliciahawthorn for the link, it's very helpful indeed. I do feel less "alone" now.  And, I'd just like to stress it's not my plan to "break any hearts" or the like, I'm fully aware of peoples feelings and don't intend to carelessly use them for my own ends. I wouldn't of course involve "another woman", I care about my girlfriend far too much for that. I think it's more important to me that she just know so I don't feel like I'm lying to her so much. Maybe that's selfish. And, as someone else said, I'm very worried that once she knows she'll be paranoid about me sleeping with a tgirl, or that she'll never be able to sexually satisfy me because of my curiosity, and frankly I'm worried about this too.

[Nero]

Hi daywalker.

I'm wondering why you feel you have to tell your girlfriend about this? I don't tell my lovers all my fantasies. It will just make her feel insecure. If you're not going to cheat on her, maybe just enjoy this fantasy in your private time?

[NicholeW.]

Thanks to all of you for the replies. They've been extremely helpful, and far more understanding than I've previously had.

And, as someone else said, I'm very worried that once she knows she'll be paranoid about me sleeping with a tgirl, or that she'll never be able to sexually satisfy me because of my curiosity, and frankly I'm worried about this too.

O, you don't sound 'selfish.' Actually you sound really quite nice.

I think that you are absolutely spot-on about your gf and how she may very likely perceive this desire of yours. I would feel that way were I her anyhow. Talking about something I might view as 'exotic'  when I normally think of 'exotic' as a sexy gown from V(ictoria's) S(ecret) would pretty much throw me for a loop, and then some.

I know guys don't always realize this, but we women have 'adequacy' concerns in our relationships as well. I believe that any woman who choses to have a caring relationship with a guy wants to be able to 'please' him in all sorts of different ways, as well as wanting to be 'pleased' herself.

I wish you all the best, Daywalker. And will leave you with the 'real' experts above.

N~

Sometimes I think the ways we think of 'pleasing' are maybe just a bit different than one another and so are our feelings of being 'adequate.' 

[Kate]

Hi Daywalker...

As others have said, you're *definately* FAR from alone in your interests. There's a HUGE subculture of people out there sharing those same feelings, AND a subculture of people aimed at satisfying those urges.

What those interests "make you," I have no idea. I decided awhile ago that the whole straight/gay/bi thing is archaic and obsolete, IMHO. You are what you are, you like what you like... so as long as no one gets hurt in the process, enjoy it

I agree that your GF will most likely be upset and worried, simply because it's a desire she can't satisfy. *I* sure would be concerned, especially because from what I've seen, people generally eventually act on those urges... and doing it behind their wife's/GF's back if need be. I'm not saying you're like that, but that's been my experience when chatting with others who share your desires. The need to satiate that desire seems to grow until it's fulfilled somehow, some way.

~Kate~

[Sly]

Strictly by definition, gay sex is sex between two people with the same genitalia.  I am a TS and I have had sex with two men who said that they were straight but they just happen to like "chicks with dicks".  That is actually bi-sexual.  I consider myself to be lesbian, because other than two occasions that I did not like, I have only been with women.  They are either pre-op, post-op, biological, or intersexed.  As far as catagories go, I am actually considered bi-sexual by all standards.