Disturbing Piece

[Nero]

Has anyone read 3. The Development of Female Transsexuality, under "Psychological Issues" in our Reference Library?
I found this to be a disturbing piece.
If this is how "female transsexuality" develops, then I am not a "female transsexual".
Just one example:
A "true" female transsexual(I despise that term),places objects in her underwear or between her legs. - Never once have I done that, just as I don't pack now. Maybe I'm just more of a realist.
I had a touch of "penis envy", but only during puberty. I guess I just don't worship the almighty penis.

And there are many other statements spoken as "truth" in this delightful piece.
Supposedly, female transsexuality is really about the transsexual's mother and how if the girl only had a penis, she could save her mother from herself.

According to this article, to transition or to have phalloplasty is to be a narcissist.

Needless to say, this piece disturbs me.

Nero

[Melissa]

Sorry, I haven't.  Could you post an excerpt or is it too long?

Melissa

[Leigh]

Here ya go.

https://www.susans.org/reference/devfemts.html

[Dennis]

It is awful:

After studying 12 male and female transsexuals awaiting surgical change and hearing their dream reports, Volkan and Bhatti1 identified six themes characteristic of the female transsexual's psychology: (1) The mother has been martyred, depressed, and sexually hungry, and her child has developed intense rescue fantasies accordingly. (2) The female child has had unconscious fantasies that she could save her mother only if she herself were male. (3) She then begins to place something between her legs and these objects (a Qtip, a plastic bottle, for example) are precursors of the penis-she longs to have surgically made available, and link her to her mother like childhood fetishes8-10 that deal with her separation anxiety. (4) Contrariwise, as a symbolic penis the substitute object separates the girl from the depressed mother who lacks a penis. Thus such objects are used both to link and to unlink the child's self-representation from the mother's representation as an object. (5) When the girl arrives at the oedipal age, she yearns to escape from the troubled but intense relationship with her mother's representation by being loved by the father. When he fails to reassure her, she consoles herself by identifying with him, and this identification changes the dominant meaning of her inanimate object. It is then unconsciously experienced as the father's phallus.11 (6) During the adolescence passage, the girl gives up her inanimate object and now demands a penis to be constructed surgically.

These findings were examined further and refined; the presence of a depressed and sexually hungry mother seemed crucial at the start of a complicated road toward female transsexualism. Stoller12 has identified a similar family background among his patients of this type.

And none of it is applicable to me either. My mother would be appalled to be described as 'depressed and sexually hungry'.

Dennis

[HelenW]

Two things I noticed about this article.  The first is that the latest reference was dated 1982 which makes me think that it was written in the mid-80's.  Alot of new research since then has shown the errors in the conclusions given.

The other thing is that these guys were psychoanalysts, probably Freudian, and used resources written almost exclusively by other psychoanalysts.  So it shows a POV from only one, and a fairly discredited one at that, branch of psychological study.

It really pays to study the references.  They tell alot about the articles themselves as well as the possible biases that their authors might have.

helen

[taylor]

The reason that the term "Female Transsexual" was ever defined as it is in this article, is in large part because of Dr. Robert Stoller's work.  Stoller believed that a assumed female at birth could not even be transsexual at all! He rejected the idea that anyone could change their sex, so this is why he used the term female transsexual as 1. Non existing, and 2. a female at birth to never be a man. and for the Female transsexuals as we define today, he believed males could be transsexual but that they would always be male and to ever call one a female transsexual would to be non professional and ignorant by feeding into their mental illness.


Yes in my book I address this head on. I take his case and I put it to the test and blow it away.
In his case of Mary/Jack he comes up with the psychological findings that he explains away by addressing the mother as having mental issues, and sexual issues, and he also describes the father in a rather interesting way. I have a case that I use in comparision  Lisa/Eric that totally blows his work out of the water. I also explain that a Female and Male Transsexual is the opposite of what Stoller uses and I explain why it is inaccurate, inappropriate and offensive with out need!

It is absolutely offensive, ignorant and yet...seen as being brilliant and appropriate at the time it was accepted, and still it is used in many circles.  This does have to stop, but it only stops by creating new research data and this was one of my goals in the work that I have done.

If anyone would like to read Stoller's case I believe the entire thing is summarized in my book, but you can also read his work from his book ( If you really want to support his work by paying for it)  I will offer that up :

Robert J Stoller
Presentation of Gender
New Haven London/ Yale Press
1985

NOTE: His research work on TS individuals started back in the 1960's, and I believe his early work when he did the study of Mary/Jack, but the book year that I have and worked from was 1985. I know he worked with Garfinkel who did a record breaking study called Harold and Agnes, and was later torn apart by Denzin, who has done some amazing work! Garfinkel looked up to Stoller and this got him into some problems that surfaced later. ( Garfinkel made a grave error and retracted things later, which we must at least credit him for)

While we may find this offensive, personally I find it sickening not just offensive...it is what has shaped social opinions, professional treatment trends and professional opinions, and it does not just disappear..the framework must be rebuilt, re established and then others have something more appropriate to carry forward with...

I am glad that this topic came up in here, because if the TS/IS population is not aware of the need for future and ongoing research, who are we going to leave it in the hands of?

The work I did is what is considered a Ethnomethodological study, and most of the work that is done on TS/IS work is clinical, and you get results like Stoller's....who then others as you have read build off of and are biased by...great work huh? ( thats a snide comment by the way)

This stuff just gets my goat....

Peace,

Taylor

[Melissa]

I was reading it until I got to the part that says:

After going through adolescence the true female transsexual crystallizes her delusion of belonging to the opposite sex.

That alones shows the bias.

Melissa

[taylor]

Hey Mellisa,

I wish bias was the only problem here. It is not even delibarate, it is just the inability to believe that the very foundation which they are drawing from is so narrow a view and flawed from the onset and they continue to attempt to build on it. This is so damaging in so many ways.

Peace,

Taylor

[umop ap!sdn]

Eww! I question the soundness of mind of these "professionals" themselves whose theories center around postulating incestuous motives.

[taylor]

Oh come now, we all know that all of this stemmed from Freud!  LOL

Peace
Taylor


Posted at: June 25, 2006, 11:32:26 PMWhat is worse is that even with the age and outdated theories, there is still a great deal that is founded on this basis, scary and should be!

Peace,
Taylor