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Where is the line between funny and offensive?

Started by Jamie-o, July 02, 2008, 07:21:36 AM

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Jamie-o

I was watching one of my favorite comedians the other day.  He had this new song he was doing - a Country-style song about a guy whose friends talk him into going to a drag show, and he ends up falling in love with the star.  ("I'm in love with a drag queen, and I don't know what that means.")  Overall, I actually thought it was funny, although there were a couple lines that made me cringe. (She's a he-she-it-thing, in a sexy push-up bra.)

But it got me to thinking - just where is the line between funny and offensive?  I realize that's a subjective question, but I'm wondering what your opinions are. 

What do you think about things like The Kinks' "Lola"?

What about Monty Python-esque drag humor?

Is it possible for a non-trans person to poke fun at people's perceptions of and attitudes about transness, without being offensive?  Or is it like racial and religious humor - only if you're one of us?

(I'm afraid I couldn't think of any examples of FtM or Androgyne humor.  I guess we're just not as funny.  :-\)
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Kate

Quote from: Jamie-o on July 02, 2008, 07:21:36 AM
What do you think about things like The Kinks' "Lola"?

A bit off-topic, but it reminded me...

When I went to my doc a few weeks ago, I walked into a crowded waiting room, took my seat, and no sooner had I opened my magazine, feeling safely anonymous amoungst the unknowing masses when what came on the waiting room radio?

"I met her in a club down in old soho, where you drink champagne and it tastes just like cherry-cola..."

Oh it was just TOO funny somehow, I couldn't stop laughing, lol... I even started humming along loudly as it just brought to light how ridiculously absurd (and wonderful) my life has become ;)

As for finding humor, I think every person and situation is unique really. I don't know of any rules or laws about it. *I* make fun of it all a lot, just to stay sane. I guess it depends on the "spirit" of the joking, whether someone is trying to laugh WITH you or AT you...

~Kate~
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Lutin

Hm, good question. The Doug Anthony All Stars had a song ("The Sailor's Arms") about a guy falling in love with an MtF woman, and while I love the song, it has made me wonder whether or not MtFs would find it offensive or not...


I know in the film The Celluloid Closet, Quentin Crisp comments that there is no sin like being a woman, and that when men dress up as women everyone laughs, but when it's the other way around no-one laughs (or something to that effect). In the film, they show a clip of men dressed as women - *clearly* comedy ::) - and then Marlene Dietrich (below) dressed in a (**gorgeous**) tuxedo - *sexy*, but not something to poke fun at.





Posted on: July 02, 2008, 09:32:59 AM
Umm, think I'm having problems with the YouTube thing, sorry... don't know if the videos are working on anyone else's, but they're certainly not on mine...

And speaking of "Lola"...anyone heard the Weird Al version?

Oh my Yoda, yo-yo-yo-yo-Yoda....

(Sorry, I heard it before the original ::)).
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Alex

One particular thing I find interesting is that I have a gay friend who's very adamantly against any kind of discrimination and how we reacted after seeing the recent version of The Producers (the one with Will Ferrel).  It's now his favourite movie but it really bothered me.  I wouldn't have minded if the ->-bleeped-<-s were actually deeply offensive to the point of being funny but the level of humour didn't go beyond "ha ha!  man in a dress!".  On the other hand I'm not offended by Mr (sorry, Mrs!) Garrison in South Park who's portrayed as an innapropriately behaving transsexual teacher who's slightly insane and obsessed with sexual fetishes (yet no-one seems to care :D).

I like South Park's kind of humour because it shows up our most ridiculous stereotypes and prejudices for what they are; ridiculous!  And I think that's why it's not offensive.
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MCMCyn

I have a love of cringe humor. In fact, I came out to the majority of my friends live on the Opie & Anthony show in April 2006.

When things are done in humor, nothing offends me.

Sephirah

I don't really find anything offensive, if I'm totally honest. But then I don't really find a whole lot of routines about people in drag and whatever particularly funny, either. I guess I'm largely apathetic towards it and think that if people want to make fun then it just shows their ignorance.

If it gets a laugh then whatever floats their boat.

I mean, at the other end of the scale you have people like Eddie Izzard, who is openly ->-bleeped-<- and dresses accordingly on stage. He's really the only person I find funny. I don't really see how anyone can find his humour offensive.

Example (strong language):

Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Laura91

Quote from: Jamie-o on July 02, 2008, 07:21:36 AM
(She's a he-she-it-thing, in a sexy push-up bra.)

If some dork sang that song in front of me I would bounce a mug off their skull.  >:(
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Lutin

QuoteOne particular thing I find interesting is that I have a gay friend who's very adamantly against any kind of discrimination and how we reacted after seeing the recent version of The Producers (the one with Will Ferrel).  It's now his favourite movie but it really bothered me.  I wouldn't have minded if the ->-bleeped-<-s were actually deeply offensive to the point of being funny but the level of humour didn't go beyond "ha ha!  man in a dress!".  On the other hand I'm not offended by Mr (sorry, Mrs!) Garrison in South Park who's portrayed as an innapropriately behaving transsexual teacher who's slightly insane and obsessed with sexual fetishes (yet no-one seems to care ).

I like South Park's kind of humour because it shows up our most ridiculous stereotypes and prejudices for what they are; ridiculous!  And I think that's why it's not offensive.

I think it's just one of those things that will hopefully change with time. It's much easier to poke fun at a minority group than at yourself; first humor was directed at women, then the lower classes, then anyone not caucasian, then (I may jumping a bit here) homosexuals, and I think the newest thing is anyone who doesn't conform to the gender binary for whatever reason. So ->-bleeped-<-s, butch (and, to a smaller extent, lipstick) lesbians, effeminate guys (be they gay or not), anyone who blurs the line in any way between man and woman seems to be an acceptable target. Which I think is slowly changing (quite a few people/companies have had to issue apology statements after comments which were/may have been homophobic, e.g. http://www.samesame.com.au/news/local/2617/Aussie-Journo-In-Hot-Water-Over-Gay-Slur.htm and http://www.samesame.com.au/news/international/2505/Fairies-Fight-Back.htm), but a masculinity-dominated/oriented society will take a while to accept anything 'unmasculine.'
(That said, however, if the humour is for a reason, i.e. it's more than just manindressHA!, then I appreciate it as much as any other humour).
Quote(I'm afraid I couldn't think of any examples of FtM or Androgyne humor.  I guess we're just not as funny. :-\)
As I said, I think in a male-dominated society it's anything that threatens guys' virility which comes under fire. As FtMs don't seem to pose that much of a threat, and most people appear completely oblivious to "androgyne" as being a legitimate identity (or don't think it is legitimate, even) then humor isn't directed at them as much as MtFs, whose unmasculinity is *obviously* going to bring an end to the whole world, nay, the universe!

Honestly. (I have a bright rainbow sign on my bedroom door saying WARNING: INTOLERANCE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. It's rainbow for a *reason*...which no-one at home gets, but that's another story).
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Ell

Quote from: Laura91 on July 02, 2008, 01:19:04 PM
Quote from: Jamie-o on July 02, 2008, 07:21:36 AM
(She's a he-she-it-thing, in a sexy push-up bra.)

If some dork sang that song in front of me I would bounce a mug off their skull.  >:(

LOL!!!!
hee hee
lol
lol
oh jeez

-Ell
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cyanidelullaby

I personally don't mind jokes directed at transsexualism or other related subjects as long as it's in good humor, IE, not calling for those with such thoughts to be put to death or demeaned.
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Laura91

Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on July 02, 2008, 05:51:42 PM
Quote from: ell on July 02, 2008, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Laura91 on July 02, 2008, 01:19:04 PM
Quote from: Jamie-o on July 02, 2008, 07:21:36 AM
(She's a he-she-it-thing, in a sexy push-up bra.)

If some dork sang that song in front of me I would bounce a mug off their skull.  >:(

LOL!!!!
hee hee
lol
lol
oh jeez

-Ell



i wouldnt worry...in her pic she's drinking out of a plastic cup  :D

Hey, I could still do some damage with that cup. I could tear it apart and at least scratch a person with it.  :P
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Alyssa M.

Monty Python isn't the least bit offensive with regard to gender; they're just using the people they've got -- men -- to play roles. At least that's how I've always seen it.

The Kinks -- well, it's a good song, but I imagine (and hope) that someday the lyrics will be considered just as offensive as some of Stephen Foster's.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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Ell

Quote from: Laura91 on July 03, 2008, 12:14:52 PM
Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on July 02, 2008, 05:51:42 PM
Quote from: ell on July 02, 2008, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Laura91 on July 02, 2008, 01:19:04 PM
Quote from: Jamie-o on July 02, 2008, 07:21:36 AM
(She's a he-she-it-thing, in a sexy push-up bra.)

If some dork sang that song in front of me I would bounce a mug off their skull.  >:(

LOL!!!!
hee hee
lol
lol
oh jeez

-Ell



i wouldnt worry...in her pic she's drinking out of a plastic cup  :D

Hey, I could still do some damage with that cup. I could tear it apart and at least scratch a person with it.  :P

Lol!
ah hah...!

that could get messy.
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