Saw a TS outed today in restaurant.

[Shannon]

If this is indeed the case then this may cloud the whole issue.  At the risk of inflaming members, (well I'm sure that this WILL inflame members) but I'll just point out that if the person in question was a CD who was trying to look like a woman then I can see where the management may have been upset and it may also have been the result of one of the other female patrons complaining to the manager when they encountered a man in the ladies washroom.  I don't think we got the complete story.  Personally I feel that even if you are a letter carrying TS, and it's your right, unless you pass very well you should stay out of areas such as washrooms and change rooms, you're just asking for trouble for yourself.  And I believe that CD's should stay out of the opposite gender washrooms completely.  Am I being narrow minded and prejudicial maybe.

Bash away...

Steph

Steph,

I agree that I do not know the entire whole story of why exactly this incident happened.  I really could not tell if this lady was a crossdresser or transsexual because she did look pretty convincing.  I only overheard what they were saying behind me and it was enough to really upset me.  What really upset me most was when the one waitress asked their other waitress across the room what was going on.  She raised her voice to reply and basically told the other waitress that and I quote "She is a man in a dress," which was enough to let everyone in the entire establishment know exactly that this person was transgendered.  If they had asked these ladies quietly to leave its one thing, but when they blurt it out so everyone in the entire establishment can hear is another matter in my honest opinion.  I felt the staff handled the situation very poorly.  Most of the patrons were shocked, but most of them kept to themselves.  I was so mad that all I could think of was to leave.  I now wished that I had spoken to the manager about what happened exactly, but I was so very upset and I did not want them to think I was being too nosey.  I am going to ask the CEO what is their policy when dealing with transgenders and the use of their public restrooms.  Surely he would know what their company policy is.  Who knows, maybe bringing this incident to his attension may lead to serious changes in their current policies in the future that could prevent these embarassing situations from happening again.  I always found that I can get far more out of people if I can encourage them to do the right thing rather than arguing with them for doing something wrong.   We shall see. 

Shannon

[stephanie_craxford]

In any event the staff handled the whole situation very badly, especially as you've revealed that the two waitresses were shouting to each other about it.  Did you happen to get the names of the two women who were asked to leave?  That way you could let them know what you intend to do and if they plan on taking a stand themselves.

Steph

[Shannon]

Steph,

Unfortunately I did not get these ladies names.  They were so embarassed that I could tell they just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible, which they did.  I certainly did not want to make matters worse for them because everyone was staring at them as they exited the building.  I do not know of their intentions in this matter.  If it were me placed into their situation, I would have contacted the CEO of the restaurant chain, Better Business Bureau, etc.  I already started my letter to the CEO and will send it out sometime this week by mail.  I could email it to him, but I rarely ever get a response using this method, but if I mail them the letter in writing directly to their headquarters then I always get a response from their CEO. 

Shannon

[Chaunte]

If this is indeed the case then this may cloud the whole issue.  At the risk of inflaming members, (well I'm sure that this WILL inflame members) but I'll just point out that if the person in question was a CD who was trying to look like a woman then I can see where the management may have been upset and it may also have been the result of one of the other female patrons complaining to the manager when they encountered a man in the ladies washroom.  I don't think we got the complete story.  Personally I feel that even if you are a letter carrying TS, and it's your right, unless you pass very well you should stay out of areas such as washrooms and change rooms, you're just asking for trouble for yourself.  And I believe that CD's should stay out of the opposite gender washrooms completely.  Am I being narrow minded and prejudicial maybe.

Bash away...

Steph

We are taught that men are sexual preditors.  They are either guilty of being a preditor, or they have not yet been caught.  Regardless, men are guilty just by having the XY chromosome pattern.  And it does not matter if we are wearing a skirt and are on HRT for the past decade.  At least, that is how I interpret the law and the predijuce level against the TG community.

I have to agree with Stephanie.  Unless you can prove on a legal document (driver's license) you are the gender you present, or the law allows you to use a washroom based on presentation, stay out.

Of course, if you are trying to make a point, go right ahead.  But don't be surprised if the judge doesn't look at it that way.

Chaunte

[Melissa]

Now that I have a driver's license with an 'F' on it, it's raised my confidence level.

Melissa

[tinkerbell]

Now that I have a driver's license with an 'F' on it, it's raised my confidence level.

Melissa

Hi Melissa:

I think we are both extremely lucky for not being outed like these ladies; it must feel horrible to be discriminated against like this. 

tinkerbell

[stephanie_craxford]

We are taught that men are sexual preditors.  They are either guilty of being a preditor, or they have not yet been caught.  Regardless, men are guilty just by having the XY chromosome pattern.  And it does not matter if we are wearing a skirt and are on HRT for the past decade.  At least, that is how I interpret the law and the predijuce level against the TG community.

I have to agree with Stephanie.  Unless you can prove on a legal document (driver's license) you are the gender you present, or the law allows you to use a washroom based on presentation, stay out.

Of course, if you are trying to make a point, go right ahead.  But don't be surprised if the judge doesn't look at it that way.

Chaunte

Yup, while we all have out principles and convictions, we also need a good helping of common sense, if not be prepared for the consequences.

Steph

[Melissa]

Hi Melissa:

I think we are both extremely lucky for not being outed like these ladies.

tinkerbell

For me, I think it's a combination of being in a good area, staying away from certain places until I felt I could pass, good genetics, and a little luck.  I've never had anyone call me on my gender and I am now prepared if they do.  I will act shocked and insulted and if that doesn't cause enough doubt, I can always whip out my handy dandy driver's license .

Melissa

Melissa

[stephanie_craxford]

Aha Melissa, the good old trusty driver license, however there are many who don't have that available to them.  And I'm not sure what you mean by genetics.

Steph

[Melissa]

And I'm not sure what you mean by genetics.

I ended up with some features that have made it easier to pass with such a short pre-transition.  Height is good.  Hand's aren't super large. Not a lot of body hair.  Not super big feet.  Etc.  Of course, maybe it's something else besides genetics, but I was referring to my features.

Melissa

[stephanie_craxford]

I ended up with some features that have made it easier to pass with such a short pre-transition.  Height is good.  Hand's aren't super large. Not a lot of body hair.  Not super big feet.  Etc.  Of course, maybe it's something else besides genetics, but I was referring to my features.

Melissa

Ahhh I see, when you mentioned genetics I thought that you were speaking of some type of unique medical anomaly.  yes those who are afflicted with what you describe would definitely have an easier time passing.  But not always.

Steph


Posted at: July 18, 2006, 05:57:43 PM

I met Bea Arthur (golden girl's actress) personally once.  She is very tall, her voice is baritone, she has huge hands, and I think her feet are big too.....but she is a woman and no one seems to question that fact.   Why should they?  we come in different shapes and forms, not all real women have curves....


tinkerbell

And that's why I said not always   I've never had the pleasure of meeting her, but as you say us girls come in all shapes, sizes and colours

Steph

[Shannon]

Well, I guess this restaurant chain has gotten some negative press in the past for not sponsoring AIDS events.  Here is an article I found on the Internet.      

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050126/NEWS01/501260464

I do think that lady I saw there that day was actually a transsexual woman and not a crossdresser.  If she was on HRT, I know some of those medications are a diuretic and they will make the person taking them needing to go use the restroom more often.  My sister-in-law is a Registered Nurse and she told me this.  I have my letter to the restaurant chain's CEO written and will be sending it off soon.  I hope my letter does not fall on deaf ears. 

Shannon

[LostInTime]

I am not surprised at all.  The article link does not work now BTW, says that it is invalid.

Fortunately for me I have not had issues in a restaurant nor in the bathrooms.  Well, unless you count when I was still trying to pass as male and doing poorly at it.

What part of Ohio?  I never had any trouble there or even when traveling through W Va and Kentucky to get to the Cincy area.

[Shannon]

**Update**

I talked to the General Manager of the restaurant chain today.  She apologized and said there will be changes in their policies that will take effect immediately at all their restaurants.  She said all transgender people can use their restroom facilities freely without worry of being hassled by the restaurant staff.  She said this should have not been a problem before, but she has taken action against the manager at that particular location.  The waitress that I witnessed that had outed these two transsexual ladies really started this whole mess and the manager there was reprimanded.  The General Manager said all transgenders are more than welcome to come to any of our restaurants.  She welcomes any comments from other transgenders regarding their experiences at any of her restaurants.  Hopefully this issue at this restaurant chain has been resolved once and for all. 

Shannon   

[Sheila]

Shannon, I went to that link and it said invalid. I would like to know the restaurant chain.
Steph, I have to disagree with you on the restroom issue. If you are presenting your self as one gender or the other you should be able to use the restroom that you are presenting. I don't think a dressing room would be appropriate, but the restroom should not be off limits. If anyone is ever outed, please be calm and make the remark, "EXCUSE ME!!!" and give them the dirtiest look you can muster. Do not admit to anything, unless you want to be vocal about it. You don't own anyone an explanation unless it's a law enforement officer. You should be who you are and be firm about it. Then asked for the manager or whoever is in charge. Take names. If its law enforcement take down their badge numbers and names.  Be polite to them. You are not breaking any laws.

I had a situation almost like that. I was at the mall though. I just got through using the restroom and this security officer approached me and said that I was not allowed to use the ladies room. I said excuse me, very mean. I said I had to go to the restroom. He said that men use the mens room. I told him good, I'm a lady and I use the ladies room. He looked at me very puzzled and then I told him that I wanted to see his superior, right now. He told me that wasn't possible and I took his name down and told him that he will soon be hearing from my attorney. He changed his mind and we went and saw his superior. I walk in and I told the chief that I was very much embarressed and that he told me that I'm not allowed to use the restroom in the mall. He in a sense said what, you can use the facilities anytime you need too. I'm so sorry and called the front desk and they gave me a 10 dollar coupon for any store in the mall and I left. I haven't seen that security guard there since. I learned to own my presence from my wife. She told me that if someone had ever done that to her she would be whoppin mad. I was and I did and I got 10 dollars taken off a pair of shoes at Penny's.
Sheila

[Melissa]

Sheila, that's exactly what I would do.  They have no way of telling me apart from any other woman unless they are looking at my genitals.  If they are looking at certain features that may indicate I'm TS such as facial hair, there is no reason a genetic woman may not have the same thing, and you can bluff if it's based on that.

Melissa

[Shannon]

Sheila,

That link was working just fine when I posted it, but now its content has since been removed apparently.  No matter since it no longer applies anyway.  The restaurant chain is Max & Erma's.  Do a Google search and it should come up.  Like I said earlier this issue has now been resolved.  The restaurant chain had also reversed their decision on the AIDS Fundraiser Event I mentioned earlier according to this following article where they decided to sponsor the event after reconciliation.  Its nice to know they support the GLBT community. 

www.gaypeopleschronicle.com/stories05/january/0128057.htm

Shannon

[KelliTGirl]

I was outed once by a supposed TS activist. Talk about angry.

I'll allow them to remain nameless...because I beleive the community would be rather outraged.

[Sheila]

I know a lady who has a very nice little mustache. She has to shave every other day. People are so much blended that you really can't tell if they are male or female. I know some there is no mistake, but in general you should not have to worry, unless they pull your pants down. Just like someone talked about Bea Arthur. I have a kind of deep voice, but I sound just like my mom. It's not that deep.
Sheila

[Kismet]

I shudder to think of the hell I would have raised.
That is so disgusting... Makes me think of the time that Denny's wouldn't serve a few furs who went to AnthroCon in 2003 or something.
(I'm part of the furry community. I roleplay online and draw anthro images, but that's about it. I'm not like those people in CSI!)