Isolation

[MaggieB]

I'm having a recurring issue of loneliness. This week I decided to stop seeing my therapist. It was a measure that I felt was needed for my own growth. Every session was dominated by me telling her what my "wife" said or did that upset me. In fact, 90% of my sessions was about my relationship with her. On the transgender issue, I have no problems with self acceptance or identity. I know who I am and what I am and I like it. I had to stop because, I started to get attached to her more than I should. She became a confidant and I was closer to her than my "wife".  That could get to be unhealthy for me. It is certainly not a basis for therapy. She also indicated that we were covering the same ground over and over with little that she could do to help. I realized that I was almost paying for a friendship.  So I had to stop and told her so.

I work at home alone and don't have friends. I do have one friend, another transwoman who lives in a nearby city but we don't have all that much in common other than trans issues. Don't get me wrong, I treasure her friendship but I need more. I feel rather lonely and cut off from people. That used to be just fine with me before I transitioned but now, I want to get out in the world and live. I also am in a very different position here in my own family of an adult daughter and spouse. It is as though I am not here or that I am invisible. I am consciously ignored most of the time. I still love my "wife" but she has withdrawn from me so that we, at best, are close friends. I find that maddening. I don't know whether to call her wife or partner or friend or sister. She would not like to be referred to as "wife" as she says she is a grieving widow. She is still not at the place where I can talk freely about my new life. She may never get there. I need more than that. We had a 23 year marriage and I need to love and be loved. This must sound like I am asking for a date from someone here but it is not. I just wanted to say that the loneliness is hard to take and I am worried that as the years go by, I won't do very well in this isolated existence. I am 57 in a few days and I can't get past the idea that it is too late for me.

Maggie

[carol_w]

Maggie,

Is it time for you to seek a bit of life outside your home?  If you feel confident enough, you could
volunteer somewhere, or join a social club.  I would think that getting your mind off what's going on with your spouse would help you immensely, and getting outside your home would help.

Just my "dos centavos".

Carol

[pennyjane]

oh no, maggie....it is definately not too late!  we, transitioning ts's that is, are really far younger then our years.  in alot of ways we are re-experincing our puberty...this time the right way.

i understand your point about getting so close to your therapist...i don't think that's all that uncommon.  maybe you have just hit a wall with your wife.  it could be that you aren't going anywhere right now and so maybe it is time to focus some energy in another direction that might be difficult for you and your present therapist to cover.  have you considered seeing another therapist, one you are not familiar with for awhile...maybe just to shake things up some and get a different perspective?

isolation is not healthy.  you know that.  we are social creatures by nature and now when we are finally feeling and presenting well we want to explore that.  i find that getting myself out and spending most of my time among non-gender focused people to be very rewarding.  my church serves alot of that purpose for me, i'm the only ts and as far as i know there are not even any out gays in the congregation.  other social organizations might serve the same roll for people who aren't inclined towards church.  i don't know about where you live but here we have all kinds of outreach programs just screaming for volunteers to come down and help out.  i have found that a great way to meet other kind and caring people.

also, and i am a bit older then you, i took a couple of classes at the local junior college shortly after transition.  that too forced me to be out there meeting people and denying any tendency i might have towards isolation.  there are lots of different ways to do it, the trick is motivating yourself to take the first step...once that one is over the second is a little easier and so on.

and, to keep in touch with others who may be in the tg community, there are ogranizations that do diversity panels and sponsor discussions on gender diverstiy and education...these are great ways to  do something both useful to the public and cathardic for yourself.

i'm with you girl, now's the time to get out there and relish every minute of it...we're very lucky in alot of ways to be going through this now instead of when we really were to young to enjoy it!

God bless you with...

[Kate]

Hi Maggie... I'm so sorry hon. I know what you're going through, I really do. My wife of 18 years and I went through the same thing, where she basically just withdrew into herself for many, many months while grieving the death of her "husband." Or as she put it, grieving with the realization that she never HAD a husband. Hindsight is always 20/20 and all that.

Eventually though, she did find her way back to the world again. Heartbroken, sad, kinda bitter... but she's THERE again. We're friends, we laugh and talk again and do things together... but it's not like before. There's NO intimacy or affection whatsoever, which has made for a very lonely relationship for both of us. We never were very sexual together (I avoided it), so that wasn't a surprise. But what I didn't expect was for the affection to fall away too (a reassuring touch the arm, a hand on the back, kiss on the cheek goodbye, etc.). She simply will not touch me, and I find myself starving for physical affection now. Not sexual, but just platonic affection. So I get those feelings of isolation and loneliness, but I don't know what to do about it aside from letting things evolve for now.

As for the loneliness otherwise, what I've found helpful is to just get in the car now and then and GO. Anywhere with people. Make up some excuse, anything to get yourself OUT THERE and mingling with people. I felt terribly lonely one saturday, and decided I HAD to find this stupid Dove Body Mist, lol... and ended up going to like 5 stores all over the county looking for it. I spent probably $50 of gas to find a $2 bottle, lol... but it was an excuse to be with people, drive through crowded streets with everyone else, shop in super-crowded stores and talk to everyone there, etc. Or maybe just order a pizza during the most crowded time of day and go pick it up. Go for a walk through a crowded tourist town. Grab your camera and go hunting for beautiful things to photograph.

As for therapists, yes... I've never felt comfortable having to pay someone to talk to me. I figured that's what friends and family are for, and over time I shifted my support from my therapist to the wonderful people in my life. I was afraid I was using my therapist as an excuse to not face my issues with the people whom it affected the most. My wife would constantly ask me, "why don't you talk to ME about these things? Or call (her) Mother at least?" And ya know... she was right.

~Kate~

[pennyjane]

hi kate.  i don't think of seeing my therapist as paying someone to talk to me.  i see it as having an unbiased source to talk with and have stuff bounced back at me.  unbiased being the key word.

i would hate to had to have depended on my family and friends to play that role early in my transition, they are all biased in one direction or the other.  my therapist is smart enough to cut through the manusha and get to the point.  it's of no concern to her rather i turned out to be ts, cd, tv..yada yada yada...her job was just to help me discover what i was and then help me to deal with it.  it was very, very helpful having a therapist who specialized in gender issues.  her experience and insight proved invaluable...still does.

she has seen me and my wife together on many occasions.  it's true, she really isn't comfortable with that as a general rule, she makes clear that i am her client and it's my interests she is concerned with.  our visits together have been mostly information sharing...it's been good for us and our marriage.  i think annie sometimes hears things from her that she doesn't hear from me...we're often too close to an issue to back off and see it from the other's perspective, my therapist has been very good at cutting through that.

therapists aren't always bad, sometimes they can be a valuable asset.

[MaggieB]

Thank you all so much. 
Carol,
I just looked at the social clubs and volunteer things in the area and so far none seem to feel right. It is an excellent suggestion though. I'll keep looking.

Penny,
I do feel younger than my age and am bucking at the gate to live. While, I used to be a deacon and very active in a church, I have never found another congregation that I felt comfortable in after my divorce 23 years ago when I was asked to leave. I have a chip on my shoulder about them and am wary of their phoniness.

I have now seen seven counselors/therapists/psychiatrists. I'm kinda tapped out on that. I found them to be incredibly valuable but everything takes it course.


Kate,
I think my main issue is that I want a partner who will touch me. I find so many reminders of the incredible romance my "wife" and I had and it throws me back into grieving. She is like your spouse in many ways. One morning a couple of weeks ago, she came into my bedroom while I was on the computer and said, "The reason I am distant from you is that I am not sexually attracted to a woman." I was taken aback by this comment because we hadn't talked about sex recently. I said, "OK, I understand." This seemed to anger her. Finally, she and I talked it though and it was because I had hugged her too closely a few days before and she was offended. It was an event that put me in my new reality. Any time she hugs me it is like women do and very lightly. I barely return the gesture and never initiate hugs now. She is bitter and every now and then she slashes me emotionally. This keeps me on edge cause I never know when it is coming.

I do also take silly outings to get out there. I live in a tourist town on the coast of California so I can and do get out among people. However, much less so since gas has gone so high. Perhaps this is part of my current funk. I used to go every day and now I stay in this house for up to a week at a time not going out.  The camera idea is very good. I have always been into photography ever since I was a kid. My desktop image is a floral photo taken at a restaurant last spring when I met the gals from Trans-Ponder.com. I forgot that I have that outlet. As for subjects, they are limitless here!

I guess, I have to take what I have and endure. Compared to my life before I transitioned, this is still far far better!  As Foxy Cleopatra said, "I got a taste of honey and now I want the whole beehive."  Different subject but similar passion.

Maggie

[NicholeW.]

therapists aren't always bad, sometimes they can be a valuable asset.

A good point. Thank you, PJ.

She's right, ya know. Of course some of you don't; but there's a lot more to seeing a therapist than simply jumping through hoops. Or at least can be if someone is willing to understand that the be-all-end-all of therapy is not a letter and done. Well, at least if you have any problems other than transition that affect one's life. Nice job, PJ.

Mags, there are friends out there waiting for you to come to them. Alas, one of the most difficult things I have consistently seen among women-with-a-transsexual-history is a reticence to actually put ourselves out there and make friendships. (A holdover from male socialization where we are used to either being loners who can do it all ourselves without support or friendships that are more than superficial ball-game watching, etc or just that we really don't know how to go about socializing? I dunno,doesn't really matter.)

But, friendships and living full-time are more than going to get a pizza in-person or driving on a street or going out to see a movie or just walking through one's own village (I believe a lot of that is just more "do I pass" kinda stuff for some missing self-belief.) It's actually a process of getting to know people we don't yet know and having them get to know us.

Since most people aren't going to just walk-up to you and say: "O, I just saw you on the sidewalk (picking-up your pizza, driving your car, etc) and felt you were someone I just had to get to know!" We have to risk trying to introduce ourselves and to have an opportunity to do that I have to actually involve myself in something that includes other people in ways other than just passing on the street, in a store or what-not.

Actually making at least acquaintances takes some work, work that holds anyone in good stead.

Nichole

[MaggieB]

Mags, there are friends out there waiting for you to come to them. Alas, one of the most difficult things I have consistently seen among women-with-a-transsexual-history is a reticence to actually put ourselves out there and make friendships. (A holdover from male socialization where we are used to either being loners who can do it all ourselves without support or friendships that are more than superficial ball-game watching, etc or just that we really don't know how to go about socializing? I dunno,doesn't really matter.)

But, friendships and living full-time are more than going to get a pizza in-person or driving on a street or going out to see a movie or just walking through one's own village (I believe a lot of that is just more "do I pass" kinda stuff for some missing self-belief.) It's actually a process of getting to know people we don't yet know and having them get to know us.

Since most people aren't going to just walk-up to you and say: "O, I just saw you on the sidewalk (picking-up your pizza, driving your car, etc) and felt you were someone I just had to get to know!" We have to risk trying to introduce ourselves and to have an opportunity to do that I have to actually involve myself in something that includes other people in ways other than just passing on the street, in a store or what-not.

Actually making at least acquaintances takes some work, work that holds anyone in good stead.

Nichole

Nichole,
I agree totally with this idea. What I have been doing today is putting myself in these settings such as a volunteer group or a professional women's group etc. and then I see that moment when we share our family situations.  I wear a wedding band and an engagement ring given to me by my spouse. However, I can't say I am married, a widow, separated or whatever without outing myself. This is because we do live in a fairly small city and the places I would go probably know my spouse or daughter. I really want to be accepted for me as Maggie not that transsexual person. It would help if I could have a story that is not misleading. I tried that line before saying my husband left me and all but it just got more and more difficult to come up with back story.

So how do we go out there? Wearing an armband with our trans status? I know that women expect to hear and tell all about the family details and they start in the first few minutes. My spouse gets totally undone by this "I tell you mine, you tell me yours" and it has caused her to be ostracized from many a women's group even in offices. I don't and never have minded spilling the beans about my life to people but now that I am Maggie, this could be a cold splash of water in the face.

Maggie

[NicholeW.]

Mags, I have no idea about which "coastal tourist-town" you live in or how big it is. And I do understand the gas-thingy and living in a place for a long-time and having people kinda "know" even if they don't know. It can be hard to find places where no one knows you're the resident TS.

But, surely there is someplace fairly close by where you could find a reception that didn't include having to out yourself. (I also understand problems attendant on that as well.)

Or, you might just find that some of those places you're hesitant to go right now, might not be negative for you at all. "I like to wear them." That seems like a statement that needs no "back-story." Nor even needs to be said if no one even bothers to ask.

And when you say "I can see myself in those situations" does that mean this is all imaginative at the moment? Kinda like the imagination we all have of "getting read constantly" when we first begin transition. You know the answer to that, luv. You've experienced it. 

N~

[MaggieB]

Mags, I have no idea about which "coastal tourist-town" you live in or how big it is. And I do understand the gas-thingy and living in a place for a long-time and having people kinda "know" even if they don't know. It can be hard to find places where no one knows you're the resident TS.

But, surely there is someplace fairly close by where you could find a reception that didn't include having to out yourself. (I also understand problems attendant on that as well.)

Or, you might just find that some of those places you're hesitant to go right now, might not be negative for you at all. "I like to wear them." That seems like a statement that needs no "back-story." Nor even needs to be said if no one even bothers to ask.

And when you say "I can see myself in those situations" does that mean this is all imaginative at the moment? Kinda like the imagination we all have of "getting read constantly" when we first begin transition. You know the answer to that, luv. You've experienced it. 

N~

Nichole,
I mentioned imagining scenarios because a man recently asked me "What does your husband do?"  and I said I was separated. Amazingly, there are some middle aged men that do give me the "once over".  I was totally unprepared for this question and I ended up making up a story about my husband leaving me and how we just grew apart. Then this man said he was divorced for two years and started telling me about his life. I felt that a proposition was coming so I changed the subject as fast as possible and got away from him.  It might have been different if he was nice looking but this man was not my type.... But if he knew I was trans what then? If he did know, was he a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-?

At any rate, the episode forced me to have a story prepared. Unfortunately, my spouse and I cannot agree on what to call ourselves. She is very concerned that people will think she is a lesbian so I can't call her my partner. All of the other possibilities are no goes with her too. She is back to wearing her wedding band which is very distinctive and matches mine. She mentioned joining a local painting group together which I might like but I kinda want something where I can meet people by myself and perhaps find someone that I could have a relationship with. I know that this is very unlikely but my life has been the exception so many times so I hope for it.

The area is the Monterey Peninsula (Carmel/Pebble Beach/Pacific Grove/Seaside/Monterey) and it has about 100000 people on the peninsula. However, the way it is arranged, it is like a series of small towns. We have been here for 12 years and lots of people know us in all the towns. It seems to be a rather trans tolerant place but not as much as nearby Santa Cruz.

Maggs

[NicholeW.]

O, that coastal tourist town!!

Yah, I spent 2 years there while at DLI. And now I recall you've said that before in the thread about the Westboro Church supposedly coming to town.

OK, so you had that one experience and learned something from it. What if he just thought of you as a nice, attractive woman who he was enjoying talking to? Hon, anyone can say "no" w/out having to go any further. But, I also understand that one needs to get comfortable with just being herself and that can take some time.

And don't forget Salinas as well, closer that Santa Cruz. Even though I always hated the weather there, just too freaking hot out in the Valley and, yes, a diferent world from the Peninsula. But you have more leeway and room to find places where you will not be known on the Peninsula I would think. 

All I know is that 30 years ago, while being vetted for a top secret clearance I went to a number of places in Monterey-area that were supposed to be off-limits and never saw anyone who was likely to report or enforce that. TBH, I still think that sometimes we enforce our own isolation, luv.

Still and all, what I think and $1.50 will prolly buy you a cuppa at the Denny's. It's your home and prolly you know best for yourself.



Nichole

[Kate]

hi kate.  i don't think of seeing my therapist as paying someone to talk to me.  i see it as having an unbiased source to talk with and have stuff bounced back at me.  unbiased being the key word.

Oh I agree, and early-on I needed an unbiased person to talk things over with too. But over time, I felt I had to learn to deal with the unbiased people in my life too, the ones that really mattered throughout all this. Sure, it's more difficult to discuss things with them. But just like with being fulltime, I didn't want to fall back on my therapist just because she was "safe."

And talking to a therapist about things I was afraid to mention to my friends and family started to just feel WRONG. Like I was cheating on them. Keeping secrets. Like I didn't trust them. I eventually felt MORE isolated from doing it. I felt I was distancing myself from the very people who really COULD help me through all this.

~Kate~

[MaggieB]

O, that coastal tourist town!!

Yah, I spent 2 years there while at DLI. And now I recall you've said that before in the thread about the Westboro Church supposedly coming to town.

OK, so you had that one experience and learned something from it. What if he just thought of you as a nice, attractive woman who he was enjoying talking to? Hon, anyone can say "no" w/out having to go any further. But, I also understand that one needs to get comfortable with just being herself and that can take some time.

And don't forget Salinas as well, closer that Santa Cruz. Even though I always hated the weather there, just too freaking hot out in the Valley and, yes, a diferent world from the Peninsula. But you have more leeway and room to find places where you will not be known on the Peninsula I would think. 

All I know is that 30 years ago, while being vetted for a top secret clearance I went to a number of places in Monterey-area that were supposed to be off-limits and never saw anyone who was likely to report or enforce that. TBH, I still think that sometimes we enforce our own isolation, luv.

Still and all, what I think and $1.50 will prolly buy you a cuppa at the Denny's. It's your home and prolly you know best for yourself.



Nichole

I was flattered at the time but totally amazed that a man would talk to me like that. I think it is like other aspects of transition. We get better by practice and time. I'll keep trying. I'd rather get this attention from a woman but that seems even more unlikely.

BTW, Salinas has become a very sad and dangerous place. THey have huge gang problems there now and murders are common. It is one of the worst cities in the nation for gang violence. Drive by shootings all the time. Very few of the folks here go there unless it is absolutely required. As for night life, they roll up the streets here. Young people go nuts because everyone is home at 9 or 10.

hi kate.  i don't think of seeing my therapist as paying someone to talk to me.  i see it as having an unbiased source to talk with and have stuff bounced back at me.  unbiased being the key word.

Oh I agree, and early-on I needed an unbiased person to talk things over with too. But over time, I felt I had to learn to deal with the unbiased people in my life too, the ones that really mattered throughout all this. Sure, it's more difficult to discuss things with them. But just like with being fulltime, I didn't want to fall back on my therapist just because she was "safe."

And talking to a therapist about things I was afraid to mention to my friends and family started to just feel WRONG. Like I was cheating on them. Keeping secrets. Like I didn't trust them. I eventually felt MORE isolated from doing it. I felt I was distancing myself from the very people who really COULD help me through all this.

~Kate~

For me, talking to my therapist was a liberating experience. I didn't have to worry about any hot buttons or past issues. I told her everything. Initially, I felt that it was a kind of betrayal of my wife but later that changed. I started thinking about it as a refuge and a person to sharel my problems and get an objective yet affirming response. That meant so much to me. I simply loved it. I am totally sold on the idea and was incredibly helped by it. Even when she "called me on the carpet" a few times so as to bring me back to earth, I didn't resent it.  Stopping was very hard and tearful for me. I can go back at any time but I know that I have to go on my own now. All that has been said now needs to be put into practice. If my wife cannot be who I need, I need then to grieve over the loss and move on to what is next.

Maggie

[Mnemosyne]

OMG! Women hug lightly there? Here that is only done with strangers. Meeting past the first time is most likely a good way to get into the, "here, let me crack your back and a few ribs" club.

I get what you are saying about being lonely. I withdrew from the world and my therapist kept encouraging me to join a social group and recommended a book club. I got into the local BDSM scene instead but I guess a book club could have worked just as well. The trick is to get out there one day and relax around others. Then do it again. Repeat until your own social life is overflowing and you have to pick and choose the things you want to do and those that you do them with, ok?

Good luck!

[NicholeW.]

Maggie, something just hit me. I was thinking of this wonderful bookstore I used to adore, large with a soup and sandwich counter, 1978 at a new kinda earthy (well, then it was new, wood and stone as I recall, but mostly wood) shopping center in Carmel I think, maybe Carmel Valley though. Anyhow it was kinda like a precursor of the Barnes & Noble chain except just simply a lot nicer and more comfy than they tend to be. I met lots of really nice people there. I haven't a clue if it still exists.

There was a smaller one in Pacific Grove, an alternative one, then and one toward the end of the Wharf, also alternative/new age.

Just thoughts.

But, yes, just getting out an doing something for yourself seems like a wonderful way to relax and maybe get to be part of a group that would allow you just to be you.

Nichole

[MaggieB]

Hi Nichole,
I have thought about places like this. Most of the ones you mentioned are gone, victims of the Internet killing off the brick and mortar book stores.  In fact, many stores that have here for decades are closing. Sad. I'll check at coffee shop I know still exists in PG where I met the lead singer from Journey, last year. He sang "You never know what love is" to prove it. Even with all the years, he still sounds the same. He lives around here. Long white hair now.
My family gave me money instead of a present for my birthday, yesterday, saying that they couldn't figure out what to buy me. Ouch. I am thinking that I could buy a new digital camera with it and photograph the area's wonders. I haven't decided. I'm kinda stinging from the event. It was going so well then, crash. Back to my personal Twilight Zone.

Maggie