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Body dysphoria similarities, transsexuals and androgynes - some musings

Started by NickSister, July 22, 2008, 09:18:48 PM

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NickSister

Having read a multitude of body dysphoria stories it seems apparent to me that the body dysphoria experienced by androgynes, transsexuals, neutois, cross dressers and other is much the same - though it varies in intensity of feeling and specifics of the focus of that feeling both within and between groups.  I believe that there is an aspect to gender dysphoria that is purely physical, that we have patterns or the bones of wiring in our brain for a certain kind of body and when they don't match we feel dysphoric. I think there is the possibility of people having more than one set of patterns and some people having holes in their body patterns. I think it can also be influenced by our perception.

There are a number of common elements in many of these body dysphoria stories:
Feeling of wrongness about their body or aspects of their body that goes beyond what you can see and touch, feelings of phantom body shape or 'bits' e.g. the phantom penis in many FtM, persistent thoughts around the wrongness of their bodies and ways of rectifying the situation. To a greater or lesser extent it seems that external efforts to dress oneself more in-line with your internal identity can offer some relief from these feelings - I see this strongly parallels phantom limb sufferers who, through the use of mirrors, can 'see' their severed hand and unclench it and remove the feelings of pain as their phantom nails dig into their palms. If we see that we look more like our internal identify says we should look like we end up feeling better. Perhaps it is even related to the way people feel good when they put on their nicest clothes to go out. I have not mentioned the social aspect of gender presentation as I think this is a separate, though related thing, which can lead one to feel dysphoric. For example, I've meet transgendered people that say they are not unhappy with their body but feel keenly that their social gender does not match their internal identity.

If we look at ourselves honestly we can see that transsexuals don't all experience the same body dysphoria in that it varies both by intensity and focus. It can be seen that there is a range of intensity of feeling from a MtF who attempts to sever their own penis compared with a MtF who does not feel the need to do this, just as I sometimes feel like I could just spend the day vomiting in a dark room due to my lack of feminine shape to other androgynes who feel a bit 'niggly'. A MtF's body dysphoria has a much different focus than that a FtM's yet the resultant feelings are very similar. It would not be too much of a stretch to see that other transgendered individuals experience a variation of this too, just with a different focus or intensity. Perhaps it is related to what a woman feels who thinks her behind is too big, or the guy that feels too short, or the man with gynomastasia or a woman who wants breast implants. It all seems to do with meeting an internal body image - some of it could be hard wired, some of it might be distorted by perception.
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Kinkly

While I have always been an androgyne much of my body dysphoria is not  gendered but from medical issues and I'm unsure if transitioning just enough to counter the gendered parts will be enough to make me feel good about my body I do know that wearing girl clothes helps me feel ok about my body but everytime i sit on a non soft surface I hate that i feel by boney backside hit the chair and i wish i had more padding like all those girls.  I also wish the clothes that make me feel better fitted me better
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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NickSister

Quote from: Kinkly on July 23, 2008, 06:28:40 AM
I also wish the clothes that make me feel better fitted me better

This causes me a lot of anguish :(.
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Elwood

I must say that cross dressing helps with my dysphoria. A lot. See, when I look in the mirror, now I see a boy. It wasn't always that way. I'd see a cute girl and think, "Who is she and what has she done with me?" Cross dressing, cutting my hair, working on my presentation... all of that helped build an image I am more comfortable with.

Packing doesn't really help or hurt me, but I'm used to it. When I take it out, it feels funny (like if you wear a watch for a few months and then take it off, your arm feels a little funny). But packing also helps my clothes fit like. Men's clothes leave a little bit of room, so packing helps fill the space. I pack VERY lightly, like the size that a little boy has... I'm very modest about it.

My body dysphoria can be really intense... this thread explains some of the reasons why: [Link] My dysphoria is not "worser" than anyone else's, but it merely hits me harder sometimes because I am a bit more sensitive.
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Pica Pica

i get little bursts, but i don't have the patience with it to maintain it.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Nero

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Pica Pica

Well sometimes I'm upset because I don't look as solid, generally hard and manly as Id like. Other times because I don't feel as delicate as I'd like...

...I used to get severe pangs, feel so jealous of big striding men or so envious of pretty girls and women. But all obsessions have to be fed, try to stop feeding it and the obsession wilts.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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NickSister

I suppose it can become an obsession. I think it would be very hard to pick where it is obsession and where it is simply such a core issue with our being that it would be difficult not to dwell on it.
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Aiden

Can be very confusing...  and it's hard to explain soemthing to someone like members of my family when it is confusing.  I do have some amount of body dystorphia, and would like to change to look more male, but it's not to the intensity that I would kill over it.  The Phantom penis makes sense to me, as I've always had it, even though I had never actually seen one lol   Well somewhat have last year while friends were drunk and standing nude around a campfire lol  Didn;t pay much attention to it though.

It also seems, my mind forgets the body has breasts as well.  Until it bumps into something lol.  Councilor considers it a form of disconnection with the physical body.  It about the only way I can think to describe it in more simple terms. 

I have dressed more male most of my life, and find it uncomfortable to dress any other way. 

But anyways, to say, I feel to male to be an androgyne, but I'm not a typical rough male either
Every day we pass people, do we see them or the mask they wear?
If you live under a mask long enough, does it eventually break or wear down?  Does it become part you?  Maybe alone, they are truly themselves?  Or maybe they have forgotten or buried themselves so long, they forget they are not a mask?
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Seshatneferw

Quote from: NickSister on July 22, 2008, 09:18:48 PM
Perhaps it is related to what a woman feels who thinks her behind is too big, or the guy that feels too short, or the man with gynomastasia or a woman who wants breast implants.

The other parts of what you wrote sound very good, but I'm not so sure I agree with this part. I have some discomfort -- sometimes pretty annoying -- because I'm rather tall (although not exceedingly so), and I also have even more discomfort because this too-tall body is also male. From my perspective these two are quite different. I'm mostly annoyed by my size because the rest of the world is designed for slightly smaller people. Granted, some of my gender-related dysphoria is similar (for instance I wouldn't care so much about my receding hairline if that wasn't so clearly a male marker) but for the most part the gender issues are because my body doesn't match my internal view of it. I'm not at all convinced the two are related.

Now that you've prompted me to think about this, perhaps there are three different views that can be either matched or not. First, there is the internal view of how one's body 'should' be; second, the actual physical body; and third, the way it all interacts with the outside world. A mismatch between the first two results in things like phantom genitalia, a mismatch between the last two in the kind of anguish some men get from gynaecomastia. Perhaps a mismatch between the first and the third has something to do with being androgyne?

  Nfr
Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me.
-- Pete Conrad, Apollo XII
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Kinkly

I know this thread is body dysphoria but my strongest dysphoria is that I'm not socially allowed to express my true self in "Normal places" (social dysphoria) and wear a clear mix of clothing to match my identity even at a cross dressing group I've had comments about my beard that were unintentionally hurtful
I don't want to be a man there from Mars
I'd Like to be a woman Venus looks beautiful
I'm enjoying living on Pluto, but it is a bit lonely
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Lokaeign

Quote from: NickSister on July 24, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
I suppose it can become an obsession. I think it would be very hard to pick where it is obsession and where it is simply such a core issue with our being that it would be difficult not to dwell on it.

IAWTC.  I put in thirty-plus years of trying to make it go away by not thinking about it and yet here I still am.  I do manage not to "dwell"  overmuch on the mismatch between my body and me-inside, because if I hadn't found ways of shifting my attention elsewhere, I would not have survived.  But whereever I send my mind on break, I always have to come back eventually, you know? 
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