When well-meaning but ignorant people go too far..

[gravitysrainbow]

I have several acquaintances from high school who now go to college with me, as well as a couple friends. And some new friends. One of my acquaintances, who has always had trouble with name and pronouns, decided to out me to a mutual friend. She doesn't understand the concept that most trans people don't want everyone knowing their business, which is annoying in and of itself. But here's how I was told by said mutual friend that she said it: "Michael is really [birthname]. She's a straight girl who thinks she's a gay guy, so she's Michael." This girl means well, she's sweet and everything, but I guess she's just astoundingly ignorant of trans sensitivity. I'm wondering now if this is how a lot of people see me. A 'girl with a delusion.' I'm going to talk to her tomorrow, so I don't really need advice...just some kind words, maybe. This crushed me. My 'new friend' and I went from being fellow gay boys to him calling me she and telling me that just because I was a '->-bleeped-<-' didn't mean I couldn't shave my legs.

Posted on: August 29, 2008, 03:54:59 AMMy boyfriend brought up the point that at least no one is being violent, and that's true. They're even accepting me, in their freaky screwed-up way. But it still sucks. A lot.

[Nero]

That bites, man. 

[Lukas-H]

Aw, Michael, that's awful. I hope she really did just mean well, but yeah you should talk to her about it. Also, what your 'friend' said about your legs was WAY out of line.

I'm not trying to steal your topic but my dad something to me once a few weeks ago about the fact that I don't shave my legs, but nothing like 'what are you trying to be a guy now?' it was just really embarrassing and it hurt a little when he pointed out the fact that I had more leg hair than my boss

I really hope things work out for you though.

[Jay]

This crushed me. My 'new friend' and I went from being fellow gay boys to him calling me she and telling me that just because I was a '->-bleeped-<-' didn't mean I couldn't shave my legs.

That sucks dude. But couldn't you talk to your new friend and let him know what the situation is and stuff.. as it seems like he is either trying to be really cold/mean or is simply totally ignorant..

[trapthavok]

Dude this is a really important moment for you. Make sure you talk to the friend that outed you!!! Tell her how you feel about that so she won't do it again in the future. That's vital to remaining stealth! How many more people will she tell?!

And as for your male friend, I'd say do what everyone else here said to do. Talk to him. It may be ignorance rather than cruelty that made him say that.

The more I have to come out to people the more it sucks, cause I'm not gay or lesbian or bisexual or WHATEVER, coming out is so different being trans.... I had to come out to one of my club's executive boards this year because I am secretary and I WILL be going by Nathaniel in my last semester, but I do not pass now so I'm temporarily going by Tai [nickname derived from birthname]. I told them I need them to start calling me Nate in the club now though because it will be harder for all of our members to understand in January, and I'd rather not have all those people know.

It still sucked coming out to them because they were all rather ignorant about it. Well-meaning like your friends, but ignorant. The pres said he used to help one of his friends bind in high school...with duct tape and a wifebeater >.< ouch. But when I told them my new name he also turned to our sponsor who didn't understand and tried to explain "that's her boy name." -.- That sentence could not make any less sense. Then our PR chair goes, "I have a friend who's gay" as though telling me it was cool in her own way....even though I'm not gay.

I think the worst part of the whole thing was that the president turned to me and asked if they could use me as the posterchild like "see, we welcome everyone! gay, straight, transgendered! our secretary is trans" and....I feel like when your trans, you don't want people to KNOW that especially when you're trying to go stealth and he didn't understand that.... It's not like I NEED to be their posterchild anyway, this is not a GLBTQ club so "welcoming everyone" has nothing to do with anything.

Sorry not trying to steal your thread, just saying I can relate. Definitely talk to your friend so she won't out you anymore like my president almost threatened to do in his own ignorant way.

[glendagladwitch]

GR, transition is like highschool.  You get through it and then nobody knows any of that stuff except your family.  Your goal should be to get through it without letting people hurt you too much.  Don't make it last a long time.  Don't put yourself in a position to have friends turn on you.

That last one is important.  I have had boyfriends try and kill me, for example.  And the consistently negative reactions across the board convince me even today that any friend I make is not really my friend (except for trans friends).  I feel kind of like a Jew in Nazi Germany passing for Arian.  It's one thing to know people are like that intellectually, and another thing to know it in your fear place.

So, yeah, transition is kind of like high school, if it's a Nazi school and you are the only Jew.  I suggest that you retreat to a safe distance by detaching from all who know you, transition fully while friendless (except for trans friends), and then make new friends.  Hopefully, you will avoid getting hurt in a way that affects your ability to bond with people.

[hizmom]

well-meaning ignorance is still ignorance...
it is virtually dizzying to try to follow
that convoluted "explanation" offered by
your friend....

i am so sorry to hear that there is
an additional layer of cr@p for you to have
to sort through...

i have no real advice just empathetic support

[Adam]

Ya, that sucks man. You should tell your friend how you feel about about her outing you and try to make her understand more.

But I know how you feel. My mom has the habit of "correcting" people who call me sir or use masculine pronouns when adressing me. And just last week at the grocery store when we were buying supplies for our trip, we walked by the feminine hygyne products and mom just had to say "I guess you won't be needing any of these" when she knew I had my period the last week and there was a man beside us when she said that.

[glendagladwitch]

I don't understand why this person was "well-meaning."  Sounded intentionally hurtful to me.

[Aiden]

Aye, that does suck.  hope can get it fixed before gets out to to many people.   Personally I tend to out myself to much, I'm not very good at covering up things lol.  Though in public around strangers I usually try not to out myself.  Happens anyways though because they usually either know I'm biologically female, or they ask me if I am male or female in front of people who know I am biologically female and I refuse to call myself just female.

[Jack Daniels]

Your "friend" fails...

[gravitysrainbow]

Fails indeed. Epically. And thanks to everyone else for the advice. I talked to the guy today, and he apologized, said he'd never met an FtM before, and admitted to being awful at pronouns with trans people and feeling bad about that. I educated him quite a bit on both FtMs and MtFs, and he was very open to learning. I taught him that MtFs are 'transgirls,' not 'transguys,' that FtMs are transguys. He also admitted that he encountered the same sort of ignorance and questioning when he came out as gay, and apologized for asking "stupid" questions. I can still tell I make him a bit uncomfortable, and he still feels the need to out me to excuse his pronoun slip-ups, but he seems teachable. -siiigh-

[Stealthgrrl]

Nothing, and I mean nothing, gets my hackles up like that "really" stuff. I was a baby once. Does that mean I'm "really" a baby? This friend is "really" a cementhead.

My second unfavorite thing is people who mess up the pronouns and then, when you object, act as if you're splitting hairs, correcting some obscure point of grammar or something. I told one black co-worker that if he didn't quit calling me a boy, I'd do the same for him, since he didn't seem to think it was any big deal. This stuff doesn't happen to me anymore, but it used to, and I could have throttled those people on the spot. But a lady doesn't do murder, and I'm "really" a lady, tyvm. 

Stealth

Posted on: August 30, 2008, 06:58:01 AMAnd....this chowderhead's casual outing of you could get you killed. I'd make that clear.

Stealth, not always popular with chowderheads

[glendagladwitch]

Yes.  It is reckless endangerment.  It should be against the law to go around outing people against their will.  Ask him if it is cool to go around outing gay people to people who don't know, when you know that gay person is not OK with it.  And I think it is invasion of privacy, like if a person put your photo on a billboard with the word "->-bleeped-<-."  That scenario is the classically actionable one.