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Camp Trans

Started by Katelynne, July 23, 2008, 06:12:59 PM

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Katelynne

I was wondering if anyone has been to or is going to Camp Trans this year.

Experiences?  Comments?  Anything?  Anyone?
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emoboi

Just question Whats trans camp and where is it at ???
Spoopy poopie
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Renate

Camp Trans is an annual demonstration protesting the transsexual exclusionary policies of the "Michigan Womyn's [sic] Music Festival".  The MWMF has had a policy that only "Womyn [sic] born womyn [sic]" be allowed to attend. They define this to mean people who were born and raised as a female. The attendance of FTM's (including post-op) makes this policy seem ridiculous. Camp Trans has protested this policy by staging a campground opposite the festival.

This year's festival will be held August 5-10.

Camp Trans

Michigan Womyn's [sic] Music Festival
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Shana A

Quote from: Katelynne on July 23, 2008, 06:12:59 PM
I was wondering if anyone has been to or is going to Camp Trans this year.

Experiences?  Comments?  Anything?  Anyone?

I was there in 1994, Leslie Feinberg, hir partner Minnie Bruce Pratt and Jamison Green were special guests that year, they were all really amazing. I camped out for a few days and had a wonderful time. I'm still in contact with a few people who were there at the same time. It was a truly a trans-formative experience for me.

Sorry I can't be there again this year, maybe someday... although one could hope it won't need to exist anymore when/if we're finally included.  ::)

Have a great time there Katelynne!!

Zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Maddie Secutura

I've heard of the MWMF but wow.  How do they tell anyway?  Do they make everyone give a DNA sample or invade your privacy otherwise?  Really I have no interest in going to the festival even if I could go.  It really sounds like something cooked up by the most ridiculous man-hating women who ever cast a shadow upon this earth. 

I want no part of it thank you very much.


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Alex



I just find it funny to imagine a load of guys pretending to be women to get into the festival and the ticket checker eyeing everyone in the queue suspiciously and saying "There aren't any... men here are there?"

Seriously though, I'm kind of surprised anyone would support this festival at all.  What possible reason could anyone have for excluding men from a music festival?

*checks out the official website*

OH I SEE!
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tekla

I have a good friend who works up there every year on her vacation.  She tells me its a wonderful time and very empowering, and she would not miss it for the world - even though as she says, working with non-professional people is three times the work for no money, still...  Since it's held on private land, I guess they have a right to limit attendance to those they want, and exclude those who they don't want. 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Katelynne

i'm sure that they don't check you at the gate or anything but i feel like any transwoman that would want to know even after knowing their exclusionary policies would be doing everyone in the trans community a disservice.

that being said, i'm still not sure if i'm attending camp trans, but i did just want to get everyones stories and feedback.  i think that it would be really wonderful and my girl is definatly going but i don't know if i want to encroach on her space and her experience with my presence nor do i want to get aggrivated if i'm not getting the attention that i feel like i deserve. 

never the less, i think it would be amazing.  i might just go up on thursday and spend a few days rather than the whole week.

Quote from: Maddie Suzumiya on July 24, 2008, 05:00:27 PM
I've heard of the MWMF but wow.  How do they tell anyway?  Do they make everyone give a DNA sample or invade your privacy otherwise?  Really I have no interest in going to the festival even if I could go.  It really sounds like something cooked up by the most ridiculous man-hating women who ever cast a shadow upon this earth. 

I want no part of it thank you very much.
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tekla

I don't think of them as 'man hating' that a kind of hate-bating thing to say.  They want a week or so without men, just like a lot of guys have trips without the girls - in my business we just call it 'touring' - but be that as it may, I don't think "Camp Trans" does our community any big service.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Maddie Secutura

I didn't mean to be a hate-bater.  It's just that the MWMF doesn't need to be so exclusionary.  The reason it exists is because of some men's tendency toward misogyny and it's exactly these men who would say "Keep me as far away from there as I can get."  As for banning MtFs from going it hearkens back to paying your dues as a woman all your life.  Well excuse me but I didn't really get a choice in the matter now did I?  If I'm going to get excluded because I was forcibly required to live as a boy for 20 years then I want no part of it either.


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tekla

I don't know that its even 'some men's tendency' but perhaps something like 'male energy' its not the sex aspect as much as it a control deal I would think.  My friend describes it as spending time with the girls, just like a lot of people I know spend time with the boys. Besides the music bores me, so its not like I'm traveling 1,500 miles for Holly Near.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Mnemosyne

I had a lesbian GF who once mentioned going to MWMF and mentioned about me going along because I would not have "any issues". As much as I believe in the freedom of private individuals to associate with whom they please, going to something like that is not going to happen because I do not support their particular viewpoint.

As for Camp Trans, looks like they have a good time and I have no issues with it. Would I go? Doubtful, the whole thing is rather uninteresting to me.
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NicholeW.

I'm sorry. I simply don't have a hankering after multi-day music festivals anymore, unless I can drive home at night and shower and sleep in my own bed. So, fiddlers' conventions, a couple of folk-festivals, etc? Sure. All within driving range, or were till gas went so high.

Sometimes women and men need to be separate, just to recharge and be able to kinda unleash ourselves from mixed company. As for who goes onto The Land and who doesn't? Well. Lisa Vogel and the collective own the land the festival is held on. They can invite or dis-invite whomever they chose, and needn't be consistent in how they work their own policies, imo.

I'm sure there's a nice flavor to being around a ton of women with no men around, but I've no particular interest in going anyhow. I can find places around here that are "womyn born womyn" only if I want to go there. No reason to spend the airfare or gasoline to go to Michigan and then the ticket to enter.

Like Syne, I just have no interest in the thing. Although a couple of years ago I read the "Forum" for a few days at their website. The arguments about trans-inclusion and against it were pretty bitter and nasty on both sides. If you like flame wars I'd recommend it. But a warning, it gets very boring.

Nichole
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Renate

A bit late getting a report in...

I attended Camp Trans this year, and I attended The Michigan Womyn's Music Festival, too. I learned something from both.

While I expected Camp Trans to be predominately trans-women, there were plenty of trans-men and many self-identified gender-queers. At our nightly community meeting everybody identified themselves by name and preferred pronouns.

The MWMF opens its gates on Monday at noon. People queue up at the closed gates as early as 4 AM. This gives an opportunity for the Camp Trans attendees to walk along the line, chat with people and try to build support for trans-inclusion. I was in one group of four people "walking the line". I had been afraid that the tone of this action would be too protest-y or confrontational, but it remained very friendly. Most of the people we spoke to were very much in favor of the inclusion of trans-women. We ran into two cases of people who were adamantly against it. There was no possibility of dialog with them.

During the week there were many MWMF attendees who dropped by Camp Trans. Their support was amazing. One night at the Camp Trans community meeting it was announced that an anonymous MWMF attendee had donated money for a "scholarship" to send trans-women to the music festival. Volunteers were asked for, I jumped. To get the most for our money, we decided to send three trans-women on the last day of the music festival, Sunday. I know of at least four trans-women who had already gone on their own to the music festival this year without the slightest incident.

On Sunday morning, I went with another trans-woman up to the music festival gates. The gate personnel, who had seen us coming on foot down the road from Camp Trans, gave us a friendly shout, "Hey, we've been waiting for you folks all week long!". We said that we had to buy tickets and were directed to the ticket booth. We told the booth workers that we wanted to buy tickets. I added as an off-hand non-sequitor that I was a transsexual woman. They took our money, fastened on the armbands and wished us a good time at the festival.

I did have a good time at the festival. Everyone was nice and the atmosphere was great. One woman who I had met when she was guarding the gate came across me, greeted me by name, gave me a hug and said that she was so glad that I had made it in. As we parted I had to wipe the corners of my eyes.

So the long and short of it is, the trans-exclusionary policy of the MWMF is de facto dead. There are still grounds for objection, though. The music festival administration needs to explicitly repudiate the policy. An apology would be nice, too.
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Shana A

Renate,

Thanks for your report! I was at Camp Trans in 1994, and also was part of a small group of transpersons who were invited into the festival to participate in a dialog with the Lesbian Avengers on Sat afternoon. It was a truly profound experience.

Zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Sheila

I read, I think it was yesterday or Saturday on the Bilerico that a transwoman did go in and was welcomed there with open arms. She said she had no problems.
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NicholeW.

Things change, the younger grow into adults and having received a different "sort" of teaching they often change things just by being present and growing a bit more.

O, I don't think there's a lot of danger of everyone becoming "formerly-trans" friendly at MWMF, bit life evolves, whether we like it or not.

As to the apology? I really don't see why one would be necessary. People have beliefs, we all do, that later change or get erased by circumstance. An pology for that? Why not just live one's life and enjoy what one wishes to enjoy? Seems much easier and less stressful that way to me.

Probably is to Lisa as well.

Nichole
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glendagladwitch

I read somewhere (Wikipedia?) that they changed their policy a few years ago to allow the transgendered to attend, but with a pro forma snub statement that those who choose to do so are doing so in violation of the spirit in which the festival was formed.  I think they just needed some lingo in there to appease the T haters among them sufficiently to get the policy change voted in.  But it's embarrassing.  For them, I mean.  To have such a statement in their official policy in this day and age speaks very poorly of them.  Its basically an accusation that trans women aren't really women.  If I were a Lesbian, I'd be ashamed to attend such a festival.  If they can't be proudly inclusive, then they have no cause to be proud at all.
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