Job question, is this allowed? Esp. for all you lawyers out there

[ConfusedMichelle]

Hey guys.  I had two job interviews today.  One interview was at the coffee bar, E-Bar, in Nordstrom and the other was at a Starbucks.  Both are located in a rich people outdoor mall type thing.

E-Bar wasn't that great.  I mean, I think I will get hired (if I want it still...) because they love ex Starbucks employees (I worked there for 1 year and a half).  However, it's a very slow, quiet coffee place which they advertised as a perk but I like the chaos and acceptance of diversity at Starbucks.  So, that interview went well, but I dunno.  I'd much rather work at SB because I know the business already.

My Starbucks interview went GREAT.  I was very pleased and I think the manager liked me.  This store that I applied at is VERY hard to get a job at.  It opened 3 years ago, and they have only hired 8 new people since.  We'd go through about 8 people in 3 months at my old store, no joke.  So, I was feeling confident, but then I remembered something...

Back at my old store, toward the end of my time there, our store got TERRIBLE.  Understaffed, bad quality overall.  It was so stressful and nothing was being fixed, after several complaints.  Plus, treatment of our employees was just so unfair.  So one night, when I came home from work so frustrated, I wrote a 6 page letter to Howard Schultz (our big CEO) thinking that nothing would come of it.  The next DAY I got a phone call and Human Resources was called out to our store from our state capital, Austin.  Let's just say I got a lot of BIG people (our District Manager in particular) in big trouble, but fellow baristas thought it was great.

Anyway, today my hopefully future manager asked me about my store manager as a reference.  I said "Well, I didn't know her for long.  She was there for like my last few weeks."  So he asked "Who was your district manager?"  I replied and he said "Oh yeah! I know Chris!"  So, now I'm afraid I won't get the job because he will talk to Chris.  I'm afraid Chris will tell him all about that incident 

I really want this job more than anything.  I was at the company for a long time and I left on good terms.  Is it legal for Chris to tell this manager horrible things about me because of what I did (getting him in so much trouble)?  Even if my interview was great, could this stop me from getting the job?

[Nero]

yeah if he thinks you'll make trouble.

[Elwood]

Um, well. It depends. If it's true, then he's allowed to tell his manager anything he wants. If it was a lie, then it would be unjust defamation of character. Even if Chris is stretching the truth a little bit it's a problem.

The manager will likely take what Chris says into consideration, but it won't necessarily loose you a job.

[Gabrielle]

Well the law states that all a former employeer can say about you for a reference is if you worked there, when you started, when you stoped and if you are eligible for rehire.  Anything outside of that is against the law to my knowledge.  But then proving that could be hard too.

[NicholeW.]

Yep, Gabrielle is certainly right about what can be done legally when you're referenced by a new company. But, you have applied for a job at the "old company." That will probably make a huge difference, Brady.

If it's tough to determine what was said between companies, just figure the odds of ever finding out what was said between the new manager and Chris.

But, hope it all goes as you wish and you land the new Starbucks job.



Nichole

[ConfusedMichelle]

The only thing that gives me hope is the fact that my new manager (hopefully) and I talked about how bad my old store was.  I told him things about it and he was like "Yeah, that definitely wouldn't fly here" and stuff. So that's the only thing keeping me sane.

[hizmom]

you know something?

YOU did not get anyone in trouble..... you merely alerted a company
(in the business to make $$$$) that a store was being inefficiently
managed and for that you should be thanked!!!

it looks like maybe the manager where you are applying gets that....

i suspect that if the old manager tries a character assassination
tell the whole story and get HR in on it because they will have a
record of events probably more expansive than you realize....

good luck with getting the job

ps..... i was born in austin... last place i lived in tejas

[ConfusedMichelle]

Awesome dude and thanks for your input, it really helped.

My old shift manager (and best friend) just told me that she doesn't think he'd bring it up.  She said Chris doesn't hold grudges and that it will be based on my performance.

[Aiden]

Thought Starbucks was shutting down a lot of their places due to to much expansion vs drop in economy.  Hope your place doesn't shut down.

[tekla]

Well the law states that all a former employeer can say about you for a reference is if you worked there, when you started, when you stoped and if you are eligible for rehire.  Anything outside of that is against the law to my knowledge.

They have to say that, but beyond that most will not go out of fear of lawsuits.  After all, if they didn't like you, why not give you to the competition?

[Dennis]

Well the law states that all a former employeer can say about you for a reference is if you worked there, when you started, when you stoped and if you are eligible for rehire.  Anything outside of that is against the law to my knowledge.

They have to say that, but beyond that most will not go out of fear of lawsuits.  After all, if they didn't like you, why not give you to the competition?

My girlfriend says that the best question she asks references when she's thinking of hiring someone is "would you hire him again?" But this is a fairly small town and she manages a bar. Bars in the area tend to help each other out, rather than compete in that way because they all know there's going to be one day that they're short a couple of kegs of beer and will have to ask another bar for help.

To your original question, it's perfectly legal to give someone a bad reference, provided that it's true. It's not very smart to do it unless you can back it up with evidence, though. And it's perfectly legal to not hire someone based on a bad reference.

Dennis

[ConfusedMichelle]

this is correct.  i expect that sb's has a company policy for managers concerning references.....


yes, checked it out it is corporate policy to only give dates of employment and job title.

I sure hope this is 100% correct answer   I was told that Chris is better than that so lets hope so.

[tekla]

To your original question, it's perfectly legal to give someone a bad reference, provided that it's true.

Legal yes.  Actionable, yes also.  In the US you can sue almost anyone for almost anything, Canada is a bit more curcumspect in tort law, you have to have a case first.  Not so here.  So giving anyone a bad reference can get you sued, so most people don't do it.  But... BUT.. anyone who says - "no comment" its going to be taken as a real negative kind of deal. (Kind of like taking the 5th, .... sure you have the right not to answer a question that would incrimante you, but in saying that, you've pretty much done the same deal.)  I'm down with the "elegible for rehire" deal, if you are not, there is a reason why not.

[myles]

I know when I used to hire or have my mangers hire employees we only asked the following:
Start date, end date and are they elidgible for rehire.
My company was in California, at the end  I was in Oregon but the employees were still in California so I used the rules there.
Here is what I did next if the employee was great I would go on to say great things about them, I figured no one would sue me for giving them a good reference. If the employee was not a good one and they asked if I had anything more to say I just said sorry that is all I can say legally. I think most of the time they got the point.
Myles