Emotions VS intelligence

[Kylo]

Interesting question I was posed today. I was talking about how sometimes I feel frustrated that I cannot see more of the "big picture" in certain arenas, such as why it took so long to figure out trans status, or sometimes when playing with concepts and thought experiments I'd like a mind that was simply sharper and with a greater capacity to process ideas and large amounts of abstract information to discern the solutions faster or easier.

Someone then said

"so if it was possible to set aside more brain functions or volume for intelligence, would you do that? At the expense of... say... certain emotions, certain other functions or drives?"

Like say you could be 50% more intelligent, but you'd have to sacrifice feelings like love or hope or whatever.

What would you prefer if given the option?

[Brooke]

Probably not for me. Oddly enough my conclusion is logic based. There have been recent studies that show emotional intelligence is much more important than a high IQ for success in a career.

While I would love to have things just "click" I would not want to sacrifice my ability to connect to others, or easily cultivate relationships- both of which are completely natural for me.


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[becky.rw]

I have a very high IQ, and piddle for empathy or emotional involvement, at best I could evoke some sentimental facsimile to make people believe I felt something real.   HRT has helped a lot and I'm so grateful to finally feel things that everyone else was able to feel since they were kids.   I've lived more, emotionally speaking, in the last six months than in my entire 50 years of life before.

Trust me, high IQ is just the ability to rotate a really complicated solid in your head, it has its uses; but being able to emotionally connect with those around you is priceless.

[PBP]

I'd take the emotion.

I have an IQ in the top 0.5%. In my A levels this year I scored A*A*A, second highest in my school year of 270.

However, I have next to no emotion on a day to day basis, to the point where I pursued an assessment for psychopathy with my psychologist.

It is nice to achieve academically and to have what is considered intelligences by most, but without the emotion to experience highs and lows, life is less of an experience and more of play that I am simply reading the lines from.

Hopefully HRT will help with emotion, but I would certainly sacrifice intelligence to get more fulfillment out of life.

[Elis]

I think it's important to have emotional intelligence. Without emotional intelligence you can't form healthy long term relationships. Whereas intelligence is relative and there are many different types; in which you can find a job to suit.

For me I wouldn't really say I'd score highly for emotional intelligence. I struggle to know what to say to people and read people. With intelligence I wouldn't say I was quite 'intellectually' intelligent. I found it hard to grasp and remember facts; as well as being able to understand maths. So I'd say I have a creative intelligence. I'd like it if I was intellectually smarter but not being able to understand people hinders me the most.

Btw PBP; did you get a result of psychopathy? I read a book called the  psychopath test by Jon Ronson and it's reckoned that 1% of the population is a psychopath. He also makes the argument that psychopaths are needed in society in order to make the hard decisions non psychopaths are unable to make. Which is why you find many psychopaths in high positions working for businesses.

[Kylo]

I've been highly emotionally aware my whole life, to the point of needing to rein in emotions like empathy and fear and social/self awareness because they were making themselves counter-productive with their intensity. Problem is, being emotional or having access to emotions doesn't guarantee happiness, or success in relationships with other people. It can increase the likelihood you're going to experience serious depression. I'm not perfect, but the vast majority of my interactions with other people in life have been entirely disposable from the point of view of everyone except me. I can function just fine when it comes to making friends, working with people and so on, even teaching or supervising them, but where I appear to falter is that at the end of the day much of it feels quite meaningless unless you are very closely associated with the person, i.e. they are family, or they are SO. All that appears to be required is an ability to be polite and respectful long enough to maintain functional relationships with other human beings. You can navigate this and get the benefits of it without feeling a great deal of emotion.

So how important or worthwhile was this emotional intelligence to me really? Not much. I'd welcome less intrusive emotions and a greater ability to figure things out. I do appreciate some degree of emotion makes life worth living (this is one of the reasons I never take anti-depressants or sedatives, because I'd rather feel than feel nothing at all) but I would definitely sacrifice 50% of my (mostly wasteful) emotion for 50% more brain power. Emotion and being able to understand people hasn't helped me get the things I want in life, but brain power would raise my chances.

[AnonyMs]

However, I have next to no emotion on a day to day basis, to the point where I pursued an assessment for psychopathy with my psychologist.

That also sounds like depression, which might not be obvious if you're used to it. Did you consider it? Its' quite common.

[Steph Eigen]

I test at a very high IQ and would like to be far more intelligent than I am now if it were possible.  I am absolutely convinced it is possible to functionally increase intelligence by way of developing certain mental disciplines and intensively stretching the limits of your intellectual range.  Make a point to learn a new mathematical technique, build something complex, write some complex computer code, learn a musical instrument and play it seriously, study a new language, read some serious philosophy, etc.  Reading popular novels is fun but an equivalent of junk food or dessert, not real mental nutrition.

A serious problem I realize I have inflicted upon myself is this sort of mental discipline.  Unchecked, you tend toward a Mr. Spock-like persona.  My wife has numerous times thrown her hands up in the air ranting, "Why don't you get upset like NORMAL people?"   All logic and discipline, no emotion.  Because of the nature of my work, I have allowed this to progress too far to the point where I was nearly emotionless in day to day life.  About 10 years ago when my mother died of a catastrophic illness. I have never weep over her death.  I wanted to, but the tears did not come.  I had disciplined the ability to cry out of my emotional range.

While in one sense this is a good thing--I'm the guy that is calm and collected in the midst of a catastrophe or crisis.  On the other hand, it leads to another overlay of dysphoria.  The internal feminine wants desperately to be emotional, empathetic and feeling but the learned logic and discipline supervenes and suppresses emotion.  This is great for solving problems but horrible for mental health.  It is one of the issues I am about to tackle with the help of a therapist.  I'd love to have a really good cry, complete the mourning process for my mother and feel the emotional catharsis I sorely need.  I'm optimistic since I briefly wept over the unqualified understanding and support I was shown by members of this forum when having a very bad time recently.  I was really moved, stirring something in me I had not felt in decades.

I'm not a borderline personality or psychopath.  I have empathy and love for other human beings.  I care deeply for them.  I have friends and family I'd happily sacrifice my own life for if called to do so. I don't seek to manipulate people.  I've no desire to become a politician.

I suspect emotional suppression is a problem more common than commonly recognized, especially in TG individuals who feel the need to suppress the feminine aspects of the psyche. The emotionless goal directed problem solving male characteristic is one I think I pressed into play to the point of seeking a compensatory hyper-male phenotype in coping with my TG urges.  Having certain underlying personality structures (i.e. I am a Meyers-Briggs INTP) especially when combined with high levels of intellect and STEM interests and careers probably predisposes too this behavior.

[PBP]

That also sounds like depression, which might not be obvious if you're used to it. Did you consider it? Its' quite common.

I had considered it but didn't appear to show many other symptoms, at least not to the degree that usually indicates depression anyway.

[Deborah]

I would rather have both.  The emotional intelligence to "read" people and have empathy combined with a high IQ would make getting along in life pretty easy.

[Kylo]

The idea of "having a good cry" seems to come up a lot on a different forum I'm on and this is interesting because I don't think the ability to say, cry from stress - or to relieve stress -, is the same to all people. I don't think it's therapeutic to everyone, that is. It may or may not be some kind of evolutionary adaptation but for some of us it's pretty useless.

I could certainly cry any moment I want to. Might have come in real handy had I gone into acting as I once intended. It doesn't need a present prompt, all I have to do is slip into the mindstate of distilled misery I'm intimately familiar with through life and there it is, raw emotion. Very easy to access for me. However, crying does absolutely nothing for me. I don't feel relieved, I don't feel better, I don't seek to do it because it offers no chemical reward and just inflames the sinuses. So I find it a curious thing how it seems to offer some people a state of relief. 

I do understand frustration. I understand the state of mind that might lead at any moment to tears, screaming or punching a wall. I guess I don't understand this desire to cry though, and if you've got sufficient estrogen coursing around in the blood it can make crying ten times easier and at the most inappropriate moments. For that reason I just hate crying, personally. The idea of not being in control enough to stop it isn't pleasant, nor is it when other people respond badly to it. One feels kind of pathetic if uncontrollably crying in front of others. A cry alone and on your own terms, maybe, but a hair trigger cry response is awful and so is being reprimanded for it.

I won't miss it. . .

[Deborah]

I didn't cry before, except for twice, and I don't cry now.  Maybe something's wrong with me?  I do feel things very intensely though, both before and now.  That really hasn't changed.  Maybe I feel a little more now but if so, it's imperceptible.

Punching a wall is a bad idea.  I had my arm in a cast for three weeks because of that.  Punching ceramic jars is a bad idea too.  I exposed the tendon on the back of my hand doing that.  I don't miss punching things.

[Steph Eigen]

Earlier in my life I would occasionally cry in settings of grieving loss of loved ones and severely emotive life events, good and bad.  It was roughly in my 30's that I disciplined it out of my increasingly limited emotional repertoire. When I would cry, it was an emotional event that would be painful to experience at the moment but would result in a profound relief of emotional tension almost resulting in collapse and need to sleep.  When I would awaken afterwards, I would feel refreshed and able to move forward with a clear mind.

I am pretty sure the last time I cried was in my late 20's on the anniversary of the death of my father.


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[Deborah]

My two times were when I was 28 and my father died unexpectedly from HIV (from a blood transfusion) and then again when I was 35 and my dog suddenly and instantly died.  The last time before that I don't remember but it must have been when I was younger than ten.

I have had tears often in movies throughout my life, LOL, but those don't count.

[Steph Eigen]

I did come very close, slightly tearing and choked up a bit at the death of a big old very loving tomcat that had been a family pet for about 15 years.  He was particularly partial to me and I to him.  I still miss him very much.  My wife has said to me:  "your like one of those crazy old cat ladies!"  Little does she know...

[Deborah]

To a large extent, I think that crying is personality driven more than hormone driven.  I have been trying to remember the last time I saw my wife cry and it has been a really long time; years. 

I was always more worried she might shoot me rather than cry about something.  When we were first married I actually hid my guns when she got mad, LOL.  But we got past that and are still under one roof 33 years later.

[CynthiaAnn]

I voted in the majority on this poll, and can simply say, at this stage of life it's more about feelings and relationships, over intellectual pursuits...

C -

[sarahc]

Intelligence is overrated in terms of life happiness, so I vote No.

[Kirsteneklund7]

Good question Kylo,

I voted no. It just so happens most of my life I think I came up short on emotions and had enough intelligence to do what I needed to do. My inquiring yet skeptical mind lead me onto the path of HRT which operated the key to the lock of my emotions. I like to think MTF HRT gives me the best of both worlds.

The new experience of broader scope and more intense emotions changed my instinctive response to certain situations. This meant I had 12 months where I sometimes felt overwhelmed by my new internal feelings- this in turn meant fine tuning my behavior and approach to things.

Unexpected crying at the drop of a hat was one thing. Being affected by things people say. More empathy can be rewarding and burdensome at the same time.

I guess measuring emotional intelligence against non- emotional intelligence... most of my life I was an emotion moron! I really have benefited from more emotions and maintaining IQ. I would love more IQ but not at the expense of EQ. 

Kylo it seems your life EQ  & IQ was weighted opposite to mine(even though your IQ has always been high)- so interesting to hear how that worked for you and now the salubrious effects of testosterone to tip the balance into better alignment.(since 2016)

Also interesting to see the other MTF replies would not trade emotion for IQ.

  Yours emotionally,  Kirsten. [emoji848]

[Linde]

Also interesting to see the other MTF replies would not trade emotion for IQ.

  Yours emotionally,  Kirsten. [emoji848]

I did not allow my emotions to have any major part in my life.  I did not show emotions, when my parents, my sister and my best friend died.  I almost felt as if I did not have any emotions!
I definitely seem to have an OK IQ, at least it helped me to get an advanced dergree in the medical field as a scientist. But I felt as if i was as cold as a fish emotion wise.
Now that I am a woman, and am allowed to show my emotions, I let it flow out of me a few weeks ago when I cried an entire day.  After this i felt so very liberated.  I was able to take that suit of armor off of me, and am now allowed to show my feelings.  Life is great now, I missed so much of it!