Questions about muscle mass and size

[Jesslee]

Hello all

I am new to asking questions on this forum, even through my wife and I have visited this forum for nearly 4 years. After years of denial and struggle against what I always knew about myself I have finally decided to do something about my condition while I am still fairly young (29 yr). We have been seeing a therapist for nearly 2 months and I believe things are really gonna work out for the better because of this.


If it wasn't for some of the people on this forum I would probably still be in denial (and miserable). I would really like to thank Keira and Kate as much of what they post seems to be very well thought out and usually positive, which has been a major help to me.


Since I will soon be going on HRT and have already met with my new GP (whom my therapist informed of the situation) I am curious about many things.


The two questions that I have are related to the effects of HRT:

First I have heard allot of back and forth over this but I am wondering, does HRT thin out some of the muscle/fat on the Hands? If so how long do these changes take, will the hands eventually begin to look feminine from a distance?

I have hands that are large. My palms are not really big but I have very long fingers that are muscular and I have veins that are slightly visible on the tops of my hands (since I am only 5ft 8in, 135lb's muscular hands are not gonna look so well)



The second question has to do with loss of muscle mass. I hear a lot about this but what I am wondering is what it actually means?

When you lose the muscle mass in your neck and arms, will it reduce (thin out) the neck and arms in Size (circumference) will you look any thinner in these areas?

[almost,angie]

 I`ve herd it does however I`ve been on HRT for 11 months and havent seen any of this. I haven`t seen any changes at all in this time except I`m a hell of a lot "less"  emotional than i was befor HRT.

[Jesslee]

I`ve herd it does however I`ve been on HRT for 11 months and havent seen any of this. I haven`t seen any changes at all in this time except I`m a hell of a lot "less"  emotional than i was befor HRT.

Hello Angie, I am sorry to hear that and I hope you will start to see some results.  This is what I am afraid will happen to me. I would not want to be on HRT if I could not get any physical changes to my body.

My whole goal is to begin HRT and start/finish transition before I am finished with grad-school so I could get my degree with my new name and gender and have fresh start. But if the physical changes don't take place this would make it very difficult.

I wonder why nobody seems to be able to give a clear answer about what muscle mass reduction really means?

[Mari]

I`ve herd it does however I`ve been on HRT for 11 months and havent seen any of this. I haven`t seen any changes at all in this time except I`m a hell of a lot "less"  emotional than i was befor HRT.

Hello Angie, I am sorry to hear that and I hope you will start to see some results.  This is what I am afraid will happen to me. I would not want to be on HRT if I could not get any physical changes to my body.

My whole goal is to begin HRT and start/finish transition before I am finished with grad-school so I could get my degree with my new name and gender and have fresh start. But if the physical changes don't take place this would make it very difficult.

I wonder why nobody seems to be able to give a clear answer about what muscle mass reduction really means?

I am very sorry to hear that... IMHO i think it is not possible to have zero
results in almoust a year which seems to be tha case with u Angie.
Maybe you should consider some of the following and think about it
are u on anti-androgen,and is the dose sufficient? 
is the dose of estorgen and/or progesteron high enough?
and above all is your endo experienced?
I hope you don't mind me being this direct but it is common for a TS
to not be given adequate dosage of HRT and then it is very easy to blame
on genetics and other rather abstract things...
Think about it: puberty of biological female lasts on average 4-5 years and
all that time her estrogen is very high so it is rediculous to expect for m2f to
reach her genetic potetntial if the conditions are anything less than how
puberty would normaly happen
Sure if you are older you will develop slower but still at the and reach the same
point
take care

[almost,angie]

Thank you for your concern. I am on spiro, avodart and a good amount of E and that part is working acording to the tests. I think i will start to see more changes after a few more months. ( I hope) My hopes are up , I just think my body is reacting really slow and I`ll have to deal with that. As for my Dr. He comes highly recomended for tranitioning people. it is his specialty.

Sorry for thread hacking

[Renate]

Ok, my two cents on muscle mass.

You will lose muscle mass all over. It will take time.
Your biceps will be the most noticeable. Start measuring with a tape measure.
Your thighs lose muscle but gain fat so it's hard to tell.
Your neck and back muscles will all shrink but if you didn't have much before it will be hardly noticeable.
Your apparent shoulder size may decrease.
Your upper body strength may decrease dramatically without additional excercise.

[Sandy]

I wonder why nobody seems to be able to give a clear answer about what muscle mass reduction really means?

Loss of muscle mass, like a lot of other things, is very dependent on the individual.  More precisely, you may notice a loss of upper body muscle mass and strength.  The amount of reduction is dependent on so many variables but it will happen to a greater or lesser degree.  Loss of muscle mass means that your muscles will lose density as a result of the feminizing effects of HRT.  Consequently you will become weaker.  You could exercise more, but it would be difficult to maintain a masculine strength profile.  Considering that you probably *want* to be feminized, this shouldn't be an issue.  Though you'll probably have problems opening those jars of pickles you used to open so easily. 

I noticed a fair amount of upper body strength loss and an overall loss of muscle density over my whole body.  So much so that I actually dropped a shoe size.  I thought that was impossible, but apparently, I lost enough mass from the muscles of my feet that I was able to go from a womans 13 to a womans 12 wide.  Also the muscle reduction in my arms and hands did give me somewhat more feminine looking hands.  Though, like you, my hands are big.  And I too had visible veins on my hands and they became less visible in time.

Interestingly, I also have noticed that my skin has become lighter in tone.  I can tell because I used to have a somewhat sallow skin tone, and I can still see some of that in patches on my arms.

I have been on HRT for just over two years.  Most of these subtle changes took over a year to really become noticeable.  Though such other things as nipple sensitivity and emotional outlook and the start of body hair loss happened in a few weeks.

-Sandy

[Jesslee]

hello Renate and Kassandra, thank you so much for this info it is very encouraging.

I have such a fear of beginning HRT and seeing no physical results. Just like most here I only want to have a normal quiet life at last, and this requires that I am seen as the appropriate gender.

Posted on: October 02, 2008, 07:25:51 pm

Ok, my two cents on muscle mass.

You will lose muscle mass all over. It will take time.
Your biceps will be the most noticeable. Start measuring with a tape measure.
Your thighs lose muscle but gain fat so it's hard to tell.
Your neck and back muscles will all shrink but if you didn't have much before it will be hardly noticeable.
Your apparent shoulder size may decrease.
Your upper body strength may decrease dramatically without additional excercise.

Wow! I cannot believe that the difference made can be seen with a tape measure, I sure hope I can have similar results.

Posted on: October 02, 2008, 07:28:22 pm

I wonder why nobody seems to be able to give a clear answer about what muscle mass reduction really means?

Loss of muscle mass, like a lot of other things, is very dependent on the individual.  More precisely, you may notice a loss of upper body muscle mass and strength.  The amount of reduction is dependent on so many variables but it will happen to a greater or lesser degree.  Loss of muscle mass means that your muscles will lose density as a result of the feminizing effects of HRT.  Consequently you will become weaker.  You could exercise more, but it would be difficult to maintain a masculine strength profile.  Considering that you probably *want* to be feminized, this shouldn't be an issue.  Though you'll probably have problems opening those jars of pickles you used to open so easily. 

I noticed a fair amount of upper body strength loss and an overall loss of muscle density over my whole body.  So much so that I actually dropped a shoe size.  I thought that was impossible, but apparently, I lost enough mass from the muscles of my feet that I was able to go from a womans 13 to a womans 12 wide.  Also the muscle reduction in my arms and hands did give me somewhat more feminine looking hands.  Though, like you, my hands are big.  And I too had visible veins on my hands and they became less visible in time.



-Sandy

I will be happy to say goodbye to the masculine advantages if i can finally no longer feel like I am living a life that is contradictory to everything I know and feel.

The fact that you can lose muscle mass in the feet is amazing, as for the hands what you described is what I am hoping for, I realize that the fingers wont get any shorter but actually this could be a good thing (because I do not have massive palms like the men in my family, my brother called me pickle fingers when I was young because my hands were smaller than his but my fingers were just as long) if they will soften up some and lose a little of that rugged look.


most of the women my height or taller have hands with fingers that are as long as mine (nicole kidman is a great example http://www.usmagazine.com/nicole-kidman-style-evolution?slideshow_id=762&o=11 ) its just the mass and texture of their skin that makes all the difference!