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the teacher

Started by pennyjane, October 21, 2008, 06:38:54 AM

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pennyjane

and so i took the question of works v grace before my bible study class last night.  the concensus was the conventional:  works follow faith, works are the expression of faith, the validator if you will.  i'm still left with something a little uneasy in my heart.

i missed laura, the smartest woman i've ever met.  although i know the joy of works and i know the joy faith <a product of grace> it seems i don't know it with much depth.  ok, laura may not actually be THE smartest woman i've ever met, but she's up there with the one.  her special gift to me it that she seems to have to ability to know not just what my questions are, but where they are coming from...and then she knows the language it takes to convey answers to me.  laura wasn't in class last night.  her father in law was diagnosed with cancer this past week and they have gone to be with him.  we all missed her terribly.

the way the dynamic works in our class is...we read the chosen text, discuss it without much structure...if we get off topic...it's ok, we'll deal with whatever got us off and then go back.  it seems to work for us all.  what usually gets us off topic is some pereferial question i come up with.  that's when the teaching begins.  laura will begin to answer my question...whatever it is...she will seem to be talking to me, but really she's teaching the class.

we are concensus driven...we do everything by concensus.  we rotate "leader's", and refreshment providers...each takes a turn though it isn't required.  in the two and a half years i've been with this group we have never taken a vote or had any dissention.  the informal, unstructured nature of this group, while not conventional, is the product of the personalities involved.  we are incredibly blessed to have this blend of personalities that just seem to mesh in every way.  the way each leads is very different, from highly organized <tom> to wide open <pj> and all in between.  from these different methods comes a variety of perspectives.  again, i've not seen one time when another perspective has been disrespected or denigrated.  i have to say that i believe this to be very different then i've seen in other group dynamics.  it's fun too!  we have pat and dottie, late 70's, very conservative republicans...and we have karen, just gratudated pre-school teacher...and wild eyes liberal...and we have, not often, but it happens that politics comes into the conversation...views are discussed and agreement is finally made to disagree without animosity or predjudice, we move on while reserving the right to re-examine the question in the future. (i usually find myself quite close to karen and very distant from pat and dottie)

dottie is truly the church matriarch.  not only is she among the older women, but she's easily the most influential.  she can be found doing anything from taking out the trash to heading up the search committee for a new associate pastor.  her service is based on need.

she is among a committee of ten of the most influential women in the chruch.  they call it "circle ten".  these women have no official function but have their fingers in about everything that goes on.  after class last night dottie told me that one of the women in the circle is retiring and moving away...she asked me if i would accept a nomination to be her replacement.  wow! would i!!  and so i will be nominated by dottie and the circle 10 will then consider me:  consider me to be one of the circle ten women.  amazing.  of course we're presbyterians, that's spelled "ultra deliberate".  who knows when this all may happen, but to know that this chrurch is now ready to put my name into consideration for such a prestigious position is such a wonderful feeling.

don't knock christians, we can learn and we can grow.





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Alicia Marie

Pennyjane,
  Your mention of the goats and sheep was interesting as well.
  I find it rather intriguing that the goats will be placed on the Lord's left. Since Christ is seated at the right hand of God that would tell me that the goats will truly face the wrath of God Almighty who is seated at the Lord's left. Kind of like it is written that God answers them that hate him to their face.
  Something else I find interesting is that the blessed children will say "when did we" about the works you mentioned and the cursed children will say "didn't we do" such and such?
  It seems as though those who think they are saved and can cast out others will find themselves cast out and the ones that didn't even realize they did good works to manifest their faith will be permitted in. Evidently they are the ones that have truly been renewed and have the good works come so naturally by the Spirit of God operating in them that they don't even take note of when they do good works.
  It also seems that those holier-than-thous may just be doing the good works from a wrong heart or attitude just to be seen of man will be the ones cast out.
  I hope you find your answers.
  Alicia
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pennyjane

thank you alicia.  it is very interesting and intriguing...why did Jesus put the goats to his left...to the side of God?  i think your explanation makes alot of sense.  in poking around through there today i also picked up on that when He is inviting the people forward, He says to the sheep, "come ye who have been blessed by my Father."  seems a reference against works and back over to the grace side.  don't you just love it?  learning God's word.

i hope and try to be as st paul.  sharing my faith boldly with my brothers and sisters.  not pushing it off on anyone, but not hiding the fact that i live by my faith and my love for Jesus Christ.  as Paul says in his introduction to the romans..."i am not ashamed of the gospel"

and may God bless you with...

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tekla

Goats have a cloven hoof, and hence are not kosher.  So they were part of the 'evil' animal kingdom.  Where Jesus is often depicted as a lamb (sheep) Satan gets the goat.  Must be the horns deal.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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pennyjane

and so don't it always seem to go.....when it's on your mind it just keeps coming up.  last night annie and i drove up to indy to hear pastor jeff minor preach, we've both become fond of him.  our luck...he wasn't preaching...a girl from virginia who has just returned from a mission to sudan, where jeff's church is sending a mission next month. preached.

of course you would know that the scripture she chose to preach on was...yup...you guessed...matt 25:31-46.  her pespective was different then what i've been in touch with of late....that of reasoning out the destruction of sadom and all it's implications.....her take was....do it to the least and you have done it to me.  same point, but a different line of view.  it's great to be reminded of these things.  just recently i was admonished in another forum for trying to poke holes in a person's defense mechanisms.  the truth is, as i think i implicated to my admonisher, it is awfully iffy.  it's a risk.  but as the young woman ended her sermon with last night, "let God tear your world apart.", i think it's a good idea.  try....and fail...ok, it's a loss...the person wasn't helped and she just got angry with me....now she doesn't like me either.  i'm not one of those...so it goes people...i really, really don't like for people to not like me.  it's not just selfishness, but if people don't like you you have no credibility with them and for all intents and purposes you've lost any hope you may have for helping them.

truth is....that's my loss, not hers.  someone will hopefully come along at another time with the right approach to help her....God just asks me to try and then come to Him with my hurt and pain at the loss, and the smack at my pitiful little ego.  what we do with the least of His....when she was thirsty...did i offer her drink?  when she was in prison, did i go see her?  remind, me oh God, remind me over and over again...this is not being a smart or a nice person, it's loving you and bearing that burden.  christianity isn't about being liked or always being right.  it's about letting God tear your world apart at His will and letting Him put it back together in His way.  so, please God, tear my world down...again and again, and bless us all with...
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