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Getting SRS in the future (religious fanatics, Zucker in DSM-V)

Started by goingdown, October 05, 2008, 01:16:00 AM

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cindybc

Hi ->-bleeped-<-boy hon, we certainly have discussed these two shady characters Zucker and Blanchard before on another thread a few months back, I do quite agree with you though. But I beleive they are to busy breaking children's spirits right now to worry much about us older buzzards.

There was even a petition going around but I am not to certain if an Internet petition would carry much weight. Then the thread died out and I never heard anymore. I just wish those two air heads would get abducted by aliens and left on some asteroid somewhere on the other side of the universe.

Hi  Fer hon, I don't think you have to worry much about Zucker and Blanchard, I don't think they'll for-close on you and repossess it. I know the banks and all in the US are kind of ailing right now but if they start repossessing Trans-folks poozzles, we got some big time problems in the US and maybe it's time to start looking for our own asteroid. "Hee, hee, hee." Just tugin on your socks sweets.

I can't say for sure but I don't think the other provinces of Canada and the US will have to worry about those two pee brains for a wee while at least. It just might be that they may mess around with one kid to many and some irate parent may sue the pants off of them. Poor kids, that is just down right torture, "cruelty!!" and I do pray the parents wake up and smell the coffee.

Cindy 
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goingdown

I signed the petition and at least two people with whom I discussed with other issues I got to do it.


Posted on: October 17, 2008, 05:38:26 am
So I should get  SRS befor 2012 but I doubt that I will be able to get it before. In my gender clinic there was first a young, politically right wing gendertherapist who spoke lot of like Zucker. He say directly that I am not a transsexual. Then two other unbiased therapist had made the diagnoses of ''obvious transsexuality''.  So I do not get SRS in probably case I have to wait to 2012.
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cindybc

Hi Goingdown hon, Even after 2012 I beleive that what ever authority this Zucker will be given in regards to the decision of allowing him to perform his new method of diagnosing transsexuality. I believe it will take time before gaining ground sufficiently to spread much outside of Ontario in Canada. We can only hope he self destructs before then, or that he doesn't get awarded the research grant by the province. There are many factors there that are not truly known enough to make any type decisive conclusion with certainty.

If you found that petition would you re-post it here for others here to assay for themselves.

Cindy
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goingdown

The petition has been closed. It got over 9000 signatures.
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cindybc

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Rachael

Technically its not iresponsible... its irresponsible if the previous diagnosis is now deemed incorect to continue treatment...

it all depends how the guidelines apear and which doctors change thiers... If it is professionally deemed transition is wrong for you. continue yourself by all means, but dont whine that you dont like the decision that doctors made for your own good... or in your best interests... whatever that may be. As much as people here will disagree, doctors are not out to hurt you, Doctors follow the hypocratic oath to do the best possible for thier patients... regardless of beliefs.
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cindybc

Zucker and Blanchard are a couple of screw ball quackers like my rubber ducky you know, the one I play with in my bathtub, "quack, quack, quack!" Jeepers per quackery anyway. "Hee, hee, hee." Hi Rachael hon, Cindy waves, *big grin.*  ;D

Cindy
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NicholeW.

Quote from: goingdown on October 05, 2008, 01:16:00 AM
Because of the power of religious fundamentalist and the Zucker nomination to DSM-V I am asking will it be harder to get SRS in the future? I have still quit a time to wait before I get my recomendations. Using Zucker criters I am not a transsexual. Does that matter more in the future?

I'm not sure what a "Zucker transsexual" is, goingdown. Perhaps one who's in remission or has become a gay male and is happy with that.

The APA will absolutely not have a huge effect on surgeries, I think. For the doctors who do them and the majority of therapists who write the letters and make the referrals to those doctors there is little effect the DSM will make even if Zucker and Blanchard personally write every word of the sexual identity disorders sections. For the most part their ideas are not mainstream in the first place. Their methods are badly flawed and as a lot of psychological research does they begin with the fact that their pov is the truth and then they cram whatever they can into the research to prove it.

What's always missed in these cases seems to be that the surgeons will be intent on making a living. There is no legal requirement, as far as I am aware, that WPATH or DSM criteria must be used to perform a surgery. Most of that, as is a lot of DSM stuff, is for insurance coverage and the surgeons will be concerned with the appearance of psychotic disorders in a patient that might lead to nasty lawsuits later on. They do need to carry malpractice insurance that doesn't require them to work all year to pay an insurance company.

As someone said, 2012 is the year the DSM-V is supposed to be out. But trust me, no well-trained and experienced therapist is going to go strictly and rigidly by what the DSM says. That would be totally absurd as huge hunks of the DSM are nothing more than new and better ways to pursue pharmaceutical marketing goals and huge hunks are merely ways to strait-jacket a lot of people into a particular societally-acceptable mode of behavior. That's why every conceivable human behavior appears at some point in one or more diagnoses. Those reasons and insurance-reimbursement pretty much are the DSM when you get past psychotic disorders.

The DSM is a good guide to getting paid for treatment when one needs to get paid through insurance. That one reason alone is enough to guarantee, as it already does, that diagnoses like "transvestic fetishism" are only used by high-priced psychiatrists who have self-pay clients. The people who actually work with transsexuals don't use the codes or those diagnoses simply because almost no insurance-provider accepts them as reimbursibles.

Quite honestly that doesn't strike me as problematic at all. It forces us to actually discover whether or not the client has a mental disorder or is simply depressed and anxious over their dysphoria. Not a bad result for any and all concerned.

Nichole

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goingdown

My problem was that they insisted that my transsexuality was ''the logical outcome from genderdysphoria '' rather than ''core identity disorder with no other reason.''
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Rachael

It might help if SOMEONE knew what actually constituted a transsexual.

So far as i can tell, nobody can ;)
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goingdown

Rachael
Nicole wrote that DSM-V has no huge effects for surgeries. Do you agree?
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cindybc

I would say it will affect and is affecting only those who go see Zucker and company to have their evaluations. Ontario is a big province probably bigger then many European countries although not as heavily populated and Toronto is a metropolis where there are many different places one could go to find a shrink who specialises in GID as well as a therapist. I have already directed a couple of folks in this group away from those two.

Cindy
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Rachael

I'd say it depends largely on what doctors subscribe to the DSM-V definition, whatever it may be. if that pertains to diagnosis, sure, it will ahve an effect because if you arnt diagnosed transsexual, you wont get surgery, but for those already in transition, id say the chances of it being revesred during a sucessful rle, are unlikely.
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NicholeW.

Quote from: cindybc on October 17, 2008, 10:33:05 AM
I would say it will affect and is affecting only those who go see Zucker and company to have their evaluations. Ontario is a big province probably bigger then many European countries although not as heavily populated and Toronto is a metropolis where there are many different places one could go to find a shrink who specialises in GID as well as a therapist. I have already directed a couple of folks in this group away from those two.

Cindy

The direct them toward Sherbourne Health Centre in Toronto. The CAMH would not be my choice of places to have gone for either "therapy" or for "treatment." Sherbourne stays crowded, of course, but at least you work with people like Rupert Raj and others like him. His article here is and was seminal for therapists and other providers. And this he contributed to as well. He's a man with a transsexing history himself. 

Nichole
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cindybc

Thanks for the info Nicole I copy.
There is a good suport group here in Vancouver as well, next to California down under from here. ;D

Cindy
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goingdown

One thing that really have made me difficulties are my views of sexual ethics. However I am strong support of legal contraception in  all forms I also personally believe that young people should not have sex without a very serious relationship. And I am worried how some ''sexy'' advertasing affects growing people expectionally girls.

(Am I pro-life or pro-choice. Of course pro-choice.) 

Posted on: October 17, 2008, 12:56:50 pm
Quote from: Fer on October 16, 2008, 11:43:26 PM
Quote from: goingdown on October 05, 2008, 01:16:00 AM
. I think that this will turnout to be a return to the earlier standards for transsexuals for m2f's that means being seen as the perfect Stepford wife.
[/quote/]

Actully I have very much common with this type of transsexuals. But not enough using the Bailey-Lawrence taxonomy.
I think that pre-op sex with a man would feel like being sexually abused. So I am strickly sinle.
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Rachael

How would sex with a guy pre op feel like sexual abuse?

I love my boyfriend very much, and we have had sex... it was an amazing loving sharing experience... HOW you get abuse out of consentual sex i dont know.... either way thats a bizzare statement...
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pennyjane

i agree with nichole...i don't think the dsm-v is going to affect surgeries much at all.  let's face it...why zucker is there at all is a mystery, clearly some kind of politics going on...i know of no one in the business of dealing directly with gender disorders with whom he has any credibility.  i have a feeling that the train has truly left the station on the reality of transssexualism now and we're going forward in spite of goofballs like him.

i do think it's important that we make accurate diagnosis' though.  i'm old enough to remember the chaos created when johns hopkins bought into the idea of self-identification without documentation...now, that set surgery back for nearly twenty years in this country and provided people like zucker with ammunition to fire at the rest of us.  it was this fiacso that led to the adoption of the hbsoc...or now it's successor  wpath.  i know lots of people who hate the intrusive nature of the standards of care but i personally think they have been a very positive thing for transsexuals and surgery overall.  until we can devise some kind of positive test for transsexualism we're just going to have to accept some subjectivity in the diagnois.

the soc....while can be telling, is not the vehicle for diagnosing transsexualism.  it's a process by which surgeon's can identify good candidates for surgery.  more then just a diagnosis of transsexualism...or harry benjamin syndrome... goes into that.  there are many factors by which a clear transsexual might not be a good candidate.  performing grs on a bad candidate can be disasterous so we do need to be careful.

my surgeon, while not in full agreement with all aspects of the hbsoc, made it clear that she would abide by them none-the-less.  apparently her insurance company is a stickler.  my therapist is a little more in oposition...she is kind of in the mindset that once a patient is fully informed then whatever risks they want to take are up to them...but she adheres to the standards as well...she knows it's best for her patients right now if they wish to get surgery to take care of all the paperwork and housekeeping.  it will be nice when none of this matters anymore, when we do perfect that test, but until then the bottom line is...it's a subjective diagnosis.
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goingdown

First I have never had boyfriend or girlfriend (according Bailey-Lawrence makes me an autogynephile). And because I identified very strongly as woman ''gay''-sex with some male with me having still my hated male parts feels like a disgusting idea. And also my personal moral views give me objection to sex without a very serious relationship.

Posted on: October 17, 2008, 04:44:50 pm
Long time ago I explained my feelings and situation to a person who knows very much about transsexuality. After discussion she said: There are strong stairts that could be best relating to a severe form of transsexuality. After countless ''experts'' my diagnose has changed from ''casual gender confusion'' to ''very obvious case of transsexuality''. 
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deviousxen

Quote from: Fer on October 16, 2008, 11:43:26 PM
Quote from: goingdown on October 05, 2008, 01:16:00 AM
Because of the power of religious fundamentalist and the Zucker nomination to DSM-V I am asking will it be harder to get SRS in the future? I have still quit a time to wait before I get my recomendations. Using Zucker criters I am not a transsexual. Does that matter more in the future?

From what I've been lead to understand the amount of people that would be eligible for Grs would be greatly reduced.  Only those who are identified as "homosexual transsexual", M2F transsexuals that are sexually attracted to men, would be allowed to move forward. Lesbian, asexual like myself & bisexual transexuals would be painted autogynephilic and be classified as "mentally unstable" for surgery. I think that this will turnout to be a return to the earlier standards for transsexuals for m2f's that means being seen as the perfect Stepford wife. Thank heavens I'm getting my grs in three  weeks. ::)

Oh wow. Guess I should get good at lying then... Cause I totally heart penises don't I?

Right?

I hate those people...
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