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The Rich Are Staging a Coup Right Now

Started by NicholeW., September 30, 2008, 09:15:40 AM

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NicholeW.

Nephie, you are who you are and believe what you believe. Although I am rather amazed that a capitalist spends time on the web arguing capitalism. Seems like a capitalist would be busy making things to salve human desire. And would probably have never read a few books about capitalism in oder to attempt to make their points.

Experience can be a wonderful teacher.

It is nice to know that when I want to drive a nail I can rely on a stapler to do so.

Nikki
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Kaitlyn

Whuh?  I'm sorry, I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.  I've never been good at subtlety, and I'm in a bad place right now.

Also, I never said I was a good capitalist.  I'm not some elite objectivist Randroid superhuman - that kind of stuff is just beyond crazy.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch
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tekla

If you want to become rich, you don't sell custom yachts to the upper class - you sell a $1 toothbrush to everyone in China.

In fact, selling yachts is a pretty good living.  I don't see a lot of ghetto yacht stores 'ya know.  Seems like they live in places like Marina Del Rey, and that's not too shabby.


Coffee consumption might be seen as decentralized, but not the production.  Same with wine.  Sure, people drink wine all over the United States - for example - but most of the production is done in California, and at that, most of it in two counties, Napa and Sonoma.  They may well be putting garlic on the Cheesesteak in Philly, or using it for other things elsewhere, but its coming from around Gillroy California.  99% of the garlic in the US comes from that area.  The auto industry has a few plants hither, dither and yon, but the fast bulk of auto manufacturing (and to the degree possible, the parts also) from a bunch of concentric rings that expand out from Detroit.  So Michigan, Ohio, Indiana (By the way, not by change either, these states were the leaders in auto production when it was being invented, so its nothing new) are more affected then say, Utah, when auto production goes on the skids.  Or, when its on the upturn.  Sunnyvale is just 137K people, but the amount of computer stuff that goes out of that town has any other town (that's not it's neighbor like Cupertino or Palo Alto) beat in that industry. 

From the beginning industry has clustered, seeking not decentralization -- look to Feudalism for the best example of how that is done -- but to concentrate supplies/raw materials/labor, production management/administration, and distribution.   

The cities and metroplexs are a direct result of the industrial need for labor.  Prior to industrialism (Say 1776 or so) cities were not even close to the populations that would come later, and that population was much more evenly distributed across the entire landscape.  So the effect of industrialism was to centralize both population and industry.  Stuff that required wood was located near forests, places that needed coal would build up around the coal areas, and people selling yachts live in Marina Del Rey and not Wichita 
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Kaitlyn

Wine may be mostly produced in California, but what about the wood for the barrels, the glass for bottles, the sand for glass, the pesticides for the vineyards, the chemicals for the pesticides, the steel for machinery, the coke for the steel, the electricity for power, the fuel for the electricity, the food for the workers, etc.  My point is that these things exist in an intricate, world-spanning web where no one agency is responsible for coordinating them, or even capable of enumerating everything that goes into them.  It's impossible.

Also, it's not that you CAN'T become rich by catering to the rich, but it's much easier to do so by catering to the poor or middle class.  The rich are a niche market.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch
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NicholeW.

Might I suggest that an eco-capitalist might want to figure in the cost of transporting all that raw material hither and yon from Nigeria to Kokomo and out to Singapore.

The reasons for the concentrations he listed was when they began they were near the reseources needed to manufacture and transport cost was fairly cheap, certainly in comparison to today. Trains and ships run on deisel and oil.

The costs of extracting that energy, the supplies of it and the transport of it to the manufacturing centers, or spreads, should be considered as well -- Randroid or not. Grapes might be refined into wine in Jamestown Tennessee (in fact there's a least one vinyard there) but the transport to Oregon or Timbuktu is gonna be expensive.

Back to the drawing-board. And all I was suggesting is that maybe a revaluation of cherished ideas might hold one in good stead in this discussion.

Nikki
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Kaitlyn

I re-evaluate my beliefs every day.  What I believe now isn't very much like what I believed last year.  I one supported patent law, now I oppose it.  I once believed in treating copyright infringement as a criminal act, now I think it's a civil matter.  I once justified capitalism with natural law, now I'm a utilitarian.  I didn't pick up my beliefs verbatim from a single textbook.  My shelves are full of literature, and my library card is well worn.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch
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NicholeW.

Or one can simply decide, as I am doing now, not to post anything else on the thread. Pretty simple, really.

N~
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lisagurl

QuoteUntrue - human nature creates desire.

Desire of many weak minds is manipulated by marketing and peer pressure. ( See pet rocks)

Location of industry , at one time resources was the prime location reason but now it is politics look at Las Vegas.They put a Toyota plant near me because of the fact that they get another senate vote, no unions, cheap labor, tax breaks and lax environmental laws. Just about everything including skilled management has to be shipped in.
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Kaitlyn

I wasn't joking when I said that I don't pick up on subtlety.  I've got at least a touch of Asperger's/autism, and economics is one of my "things".  If you think I'm being obnoxious or annoying, PM me or something - I'm not here to cause any hurt feelings, and I feel really bad now.  I won't post in this thread any more.
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
— Plutarch
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Laura91

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RebeccaFog

Quote from: Nephie on October 06, 2008, 08:31:33 AM
Whuh?  I'm sorry, I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here.  I've never been good at subtlety, and I'm in a bad place right now.

Also, I never said I was a good capitalist.  I'm not some elite objectivist Randroid superhuman - that kind of stuff is just beyond crazy.
I think we have the basis for coining a new phrase here
Anyone who doesn't agree with me is an elite objectivist Randroid superhuman

Though a simple "randroid" would make a good word on its own. Allen Greenspan is a randroid. Randroids are what's wrong with the world. Along with everyone else, but myself.

Posted on: October 06, 2008, 01:55:15 pm
Quote from: tekla on October 06, 2008, 08:53:23 AM
If you want to become rich, you don't sell custom yachts to the upper class - you sell a $1 toothbrush to everyone in China.

In fact, selling yachts is a pretty good living.  I don't see a lot of ghetto yacht stores 'ya know.  Seems like they live in places like Marina Del Rey, and that's not too shabby.
but if you were starting out with like about $10,000, you're more likely to be able to afford to manufacture toothbrushes than yachts. After you become rich from people brushing their teeth, you'll have the bread to toss into yacht manufacturing.
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tekla

Matter of fact, I'm almost sure that building a factory to manufacture toothbrushes might well cost more than a good wood shop that could build one good boat.  One is a production line kind of deal, but custom yachts are pretty much hand made, one at a time.  So, where you might make .02 cents per toothbrush, you're going to make one huge lump sum for the yacht.

aside from atomic, which has image problems
More than image, there are very real problems in disposal of nuclear waste, its not to be passed off lightly.

I'm talking about shakeups, paradigm shifts.  There's no magic replacement for resources that have been depleted, but there doesn't have to be.
That's almost funny, because other people are talkin' 'bout revolution here.  A radical change that will effect almost everyone.  That there were 'replacements' in the past does not prove they will be there in the future.  As Jerry used to sing "There are things you can replace, and other you can not - time has come to make a change, this space is getting hot.

You know this space is getting hot.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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RebeccaFog

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tekla

I was talking with the polar bears just the other day when Sara Palin flew over and shot all of them.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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RebeccaFog


that woman is ghoulish. I wish I were a disgusting pervert so that I could watch Larry Flints true life movie of her.
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tekla

I'm so sick, I'd do her.  But only in the sense that I'd do her like I did that aging rock diva a few years ago - just so I could tell my friends that I did.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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RebeccaFog


That would make an interesting video.  Get a plan ticket to wherever Sarah is and bring your camera. I'll call Larry and wrangle a fee for delivery of the product.

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tekla

I've already worked out my opening line: "Hey honey, baby, hot governor chic, how'd you like to make it with a guy who would let you name your kids Mike, Dan, and Kevin and not Swizzel, Spatula, and Shag."

I think I got a winner there.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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