Developing a female voice....Should you?

[Hypatia]

You're right, full time and vocal feminization are closely linked. I transitioned to full time last year shortly after I started going for my voice therapy, and the two went together hand in glove. They did need to encourage me to use my female voice 100% when I was at home with family as well as out and about. When I accomplished full time voice too, then my voice got good and stayed good. I get what you mean about switching back and forth between different voices. That's just not helpful. To go well, it needed to be maintained consistently. Now if I try to produce a male voice, it comes out sounding like a woman's parody of a man's voice. Like Mulan.

[Kim6]

Nice I think in order for it to be second nature or to really feel natural it generally has to be all-the-time.  Then after a while.. even when you hear yourself think.. in your mind your voice is female and when you are startled and when you suddenly have to sneeze or cough, there is less chance of making sounds that betray your core self.  I feel like it is basically a narrowing of the top of the throat kind of thing that happens when you draw the thyroid cartilage up a bit when talking and to be natural that function has to be second nature in the same way that most of us learned to use our voice hardware as we went through puberty so as to sound like our peers.  That is the nice thing about voice, voice isn't "natural" either way.  Both manners of speech are learned through practice.

[Lisa Harney]

"Betray your core self?" What?

[Wendy C]

I related earlier that my workplace is one thing that is stifling my voice which brings up several questions. For those who transition at work, how well prepared were you when you made the switch from one voice to the next and did it bring angst back into the picture? I also have a problem at home which I believe was mentioned. Anger of any kind seems to throw me back into a male voice without even realizing I've done it. How did you cope with that or what methods are reccomended to avoid that problem?

I have my work cut out for me as I am very close to FT and will transition on the job in the next several months. Thanks and Hugs

Wendy

[Hypatia]

For those who transition at work, how well prepared were you when you made the switch from one voice to the next

I was somewhat prepared because I had started voice feminization training a few weeks before fulltime.

and did it bring angst back into the picture?

I don't know what you mean by angst? My transition at work went smoothly. In fact, what made my female voice truly functional was the day I went fulltime and could maintain a consistent voice always. The same day I began fulltime at work, was the same day I started getting addressed as "Ma'am" over the phone. That was no coincidence. All the pieces just fell into place on that blessed day, and my confidence was assured from then on.

I also have a problem at home which I believe was mentioned. Anger of any kind seems to throw me back into a male voice without even realizing I've done it. How did you cope with that or what methods are reccomended to avoid that problem?

As said, once you're fulltime, and have made your "best voice" such a habit that it becomes second nature, that should take care of it. Actually, when I took a women's self-defense class this year, part of the training was learning how to shout "NO!!!" forcefully while hitting the attacker where it hurts. I had to be trained out of my tendency to shriek like a girl when excited, instead I had to learn to produce a lower, more even tone of shouting, to sound sufficiently forceful. My girly shriek at first indicated maybe I'd accomplished my vocal feminization a little too well, LOL.

[Gracie Faise]

If you want to fully pass, then you should do your best to sound passable too.

[cindybc]

about shrieking. * years ago when I was accosted by a drunk I screamed for help and even though I had trained my voice to a higher more female pitch, that scream came out sounding man like voice. * coughing and sneezing were a little harder to control so I would sneeze and cough without the use of the voice box, even that was a bit of a trick to learn, but it served me well for a time. 8 years later my voice sound's convincingly female except for times when I have a scratchiness in my throat which sounded more like a woman's voice being run over a wood rasp, if you can imagine that in your mind. Thank God I haven't had a cold in the past four years, I'd hate to see what I would sound like with a cold.

Here is an experience I had a couple of months back I hadn't even anticipated nor expect. My soul mate was going some barbequing at the top of the stairs and as she turned to go down the stairs, the stairs collapsed under her and she went straight down to the concrete slab below on top of the stairs. I screamed to blue murder for someone in the house to come out. I didn't realise until after the elderly gent down stairs came out and helped Wing Walker into the apartment and laid her down on the couch, and our land lady came down to dress her wounds. Wing Walker was the one who told afterwards that I screamed like a teen age girl in a panic. *No foolin, never practiced for it.* I know I had a rather higher pitched voice then a male's but never that close to a high pitch before.

Cindy     

[Annwyn]

I know quite a few GG females with deep voices.  Especially black women.  Women who are most definitely female often have deeper voices.

So what makes a voice, 'feminine?'

As far as I see it, the way you talk and the accent you adopt is much more important than the pitch of your voice.

So no.  Developing a higher pitched voice is not required to pass.

However, abandoning an effort to pass because you're pissed off that you have to transition to start with is half-assing it.  If you have the intention to transition, then transition.  Don't just drop the harder parts of it and then use the excuse that it's society's fault.  If you're already conforming so far as to switch your gender to be perceived in such a way, then at least be consistent and driven about it.

[Janet_Girl]

I think it is more inflection than pitch.  Lauren Bacall has a deep voice and she was a sex symbol in her younger days.  And the selection of words used.  Women do not seem use slang or vulgarity, as much as men do.  Women seem to be more eloquent in their speech, and not so short or clipped.

[cindybc]

"Hear, hear!" A round of applause for Janet, please! That is about the best illustration on voice training I have heard so far. I have  a wee bit of trouble differentiating between inflection and pitch but the way you describe it sounds about right to me.

There is no need to feel intimidated with the idea of voice training. The idea and requirement at the beginning is to train your voice to be more in character with who you are, the you that you present, a voice in the beginning that is easy to adapt to and you feel comfortable with. If you wish to improve on it later, you can do so at your leisure.

As  Annwyn said, it does appear that some African American women have a deeper almost male pitch quality to their voice. You will find the same with North American Natives, Italians, Scandinavians, and in some other Caucasian women. In most cases you will find they are rather, "ahem!", generously-proportioned women. But it's not necessarily always the case. I would have to say there are inconsistencies in this theory. "Hey, Ma!" "Too many holes in the canoe, I'm afeered one  tomater can will never keep up."

I have also known women my size and smaller who have deeper voices than I. My ex sounded like a lumberjack compared to me, and swore like one too, so there goes that theory about women not swearing as much as the guys, well in part anyway. But I do believe on the average that women seem to be more respectful of how they speak in public places. The deep voice maybe is a hereditary thing, I cannot say with certainty. 

Whether inflection or pitch, I would describe my voice before I started any training as one of those half way voices, like if the person I spoke to had their back turned to me, they would address me back as ma'am, until they turned to look at me, same as on the tely.

So with that advantage in mind, there was not much adjusting to do to allow my voice to sound more feminine.

The screaming? I can't really explain that one, I never practiced it, it just came out that way. Maybe it can be attributed in part to 9 years on HRT and having trained my voice to sound more feminine, or at least above my natural voice. My new voice after nine years, I suppose, would become my natural voice. Oh well, if this post is as clear as mud then you have my permission to make mud pies.

Cindy   

[Janet_Girl]

I was think more in the realm of tone as opposed pitch.  Too many people think that they need a higher pitch when really one just needs to higher resistance.  I have found that by using the upper part of my larynx that my voice natural becomes more feminine.  I guess we should maybe call it frequency.  Most people think the the falsetto if higher in pitch but it is really higher in frequency.

But most important is to lose the slurring of words and the clipping of speech.  And lose the hip speak or whatever it is called now a days. Listen to the more mature women when they speak.  You don't hear things like 'Whazup' or crud like that.  They speak in softer tones and use the entire language.  If you are with your friends then maybe you could get away with the talk.  But I will guarantee you that they will wonder why you don't speak like a woman.

It is not cool or hip to be using the hip talk when you are trying to learn to use your feminine voice.  Most people don't talk like that, unless you hang out with the gangsta crowd.  And they are not most people.  Just sit and listen to women speak even on television  and you will see that the is a certain way women speak.

Sorry for the rant there but you will never convince anyone you are a woman, unless you learn to be more eloquent in your speech.  And that does not mean you need to speak Elizabethan ether. Your words should have a flow to them.

[cindybc]

The worst habitual cuss word I find that is hard to get rid of is the F word. I have a few other choice ones but I lock them up in the closet before I leave the house.

Some day I need to get a recording of my voice to post on here. I can't explain if it is pitch, tone or frequency. I just only know is it doesn't really vary much from my original voice but is quite passable, I suppose as you say and elder lady type voice, except for the scream, it is quite teeny bopper sounding.
Or the teeny bopper voice I use when I am messing around with Wing Walker, the cutsie shmootsie thing she calls it. I like that, probably one of the bestest compliments I ever had in many years.

Anyway that is pretty well the limit I can go on my knowledge of voice training. For anyone who hasn't already seen it here is the only friend I had who helped me some in my voice training. Meet my little lady friend, I call her, Daisy Mae.


http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=s7qSJ19f_QU&feature=related

But my voice is what i trained myself to do, it is unique unto myself, I couldn't afford a voice trainer.

Cindy

[Kate]

What do you think?  Should you feminize your voice?

I just "me-a-sized" it, lol. I dunno if it's a female voice, but it IS Kate's voice

I have this HUGE hangup about ever seeming like I'm "faking" something (to others OR myself), so even though I can occasionally "do" a perfectly passable female voice if I really try (like when the stars align and my voice actually cooperates), I'm much more content just relaxing and going with whatever comes out. It's more a product of my mood and feelings, then an intentionally "female voice."

Or maybe that's just what I tell myself because I'm terribly jealous of those of you who CAN do a perfect female voice 24/7, lol...

Kate

[cindybc]

Hi Kate, that was why I was wishing there was a way to record a voice that can be downloaded  and played back here without having to buy all kind of software and hardware to record it on You tube. I don't know computerese well enough to do that. Unless some one can give me a good educated computerese made simple instructions on how to do it.

Cindy

[Bethany]

yes I believe that voice is important and finding it a frustrating endever indeed I am changing slowley still deeper than I would like and sired on the phone but then again slot of women are sirred on the phone I guess the trick is not to bother you correct when nessary and keep on trying

Bethany

[Sephirah]

With regard to whether I should feminise my voice or not... that doesn't much matter to me. If I went on what I should or shouldn't do then I'd be a completely different person to who I am now, and would likely not be here.

For me personally, I want to, but not for any quantifiable benefit other than it would, in my own mind and sense of identity, bring me that one step closer to who I feel I am. My inner voice doesn't match the one that comes out of my mouth... it sounds different, more female. I don't really like my male voice, it sounds... wrong. If I can somehow bring the two closer together then that will make me happy.

Everything else is a by-product.

[Rachael]

I will get hated for this... but heck, why break the habbit of a lifetime?

IF one wants to be accepted as female, this is no god given right unless you are cisgender... deal with it...

developing a female voice, if you do not have one is as vital as looking female is to passing... The sort of transwomen who will do no more than throw a frilly frock on and perhaps weave a flower into thier beard and demand acceptance as females can go whistle... if you WANT to be taken seriously as a female in our society, conform to a few of its expectations... ie sound and try to look like a woman... if you dont want to... I hear they are letting space on the moon...

[Hypatia]

Yeah, seriously. There is no such thing as "should." There's only what works vs. what fails in the real world. If you intend to achieve a given outcome, be prepared to do what's required to make it work in a practical sense. If you don't care about the outcome, then never mind...

If your goal is to live and function socially as a woman, to be accepted as a woman in general society, it requires a reasonably female voice among many other things. If your goal is to be transgender, then you can mix up male and female characteristics as you please, and you will be known as transgender--but probably not as a woman.

In either case, "should" is just an illusion. Certain actions will produce certain outcomes, that's all. Your choice.

[Jennywocky]

I personally felt it was extremely important for me to develop some sort of feminine-sounding voice. The need has diminished a bit as I've gotten more comfortable with my presentation, but earlier on I was very neurotic about "blending perfectly." (I think that's normal with people who have spent their whole lives hiding that part of themselves, but at some point things ease up; my goal now is to "be myself; blend as well as that allows; and be the sort of person that someone won't care if I'm trans even if they discern it.")

I wanted to transition for a long period of time but was unable, so I did use that time to start practicing my voice, since that's something I could do privately without impacting my then-current male existence. A year before I started going out, I had established the basics for an acceptable female voice, and then over the next year just kept practicing so as to be ready when I finally went out -- although I really do think you learn more in a month of going out and USING the voice in real-time with other people than you do in a year of sitting alone at home talking to yourself.

Part of my needing a good voice was insecurity; but I also am one not to make waves if I can avoid it; and I find it very disconcerting when extremely good looking transwomen go out and shock people by speaking in "guy at the bar" voices. It also seems to me that a certain mentality comes out in speaking like a guy, that carries over into behavior and manner; it's all connected. I think for me, personally, I also really like my female-sounding voice a great deal compared to my old one.

Ultimately, my personal preferences aside, I'd say it's still an individual choice over how one approaches voice; but I think that if one chooses to use a voice that does not adequately match appearance, one should be prepared to accept the negative social ramifications that occur because of that, which could range just from negativity and tension in social settings to not being able to keep a job, not finding love interests, having fights over bathroom usage, just a HOST of frictions. Do what you want; but accept that you'll have to also pay for it to some degree. I avoid what social conflicts I can, so as to only have to deal with the ones that matter.

[christene]

You make a good point Jenny, I'm not sure why its hard for me to change my voice, but in some ways I know it's the insecurity of making that change...It's one of the hardest parts of this transistion. I think it's because we are so identified as individuals by the voice people recognize from us...I always feel that Chris will be gone forever from all the people I know once I start using a more feminine voice. But part of me also knows like everything else with this transition, I will get used to it and so will others...