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Androgynes and Cissexual Privilege

Started by Nero, October 18, 2008, 08:18:58 AM

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fluffy jorgen

Wow, Nero, you must have a good social life and live in a really open and accepting community.
Wasn't envy one of the seven sins?  ::)
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Nero

Quote from: Jörgen on October 18, 2008, 07:10:28 PM
Wow, Nero, you must have a good social life and live in a really open and accepting community.
Wasn't envy one of the seven sins?  ::)

Actually because of the way I am, women snub me. I am not accepted at all by women despite my appearance.
Almost all of my friends are male and it is not by choice.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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fluffy jorgen

I meant the strangers who comment on your masculinity.  :)

It is not mandatory for an androgyne to look gender-neutral though, is it?  :-\
And if something is in favour of your bio-gender, why not use it?  :-X
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Pica Pica

Quote from: Nero on October 18, 2008, 07:08:51 PM
You dress male, you look male, you behave male.

That's how I dress, look and behave. No hiding there.

True, in the vids I do but on my male side a bit more, because that sort of public speaking is a male type of thing, I talk very like my dad, it's probably my most male bit, and it's a part of me.

What you expecting me to do, put on a camp act? Flounce around squealing 'ooo Mary'? Wear tshirts far too tight for me in an attempt to show off curves?? Cos that's not me.

I am not hiding behind anything, especially not this cissexual, heterosexual male privilege your so jealous of... when I do chat rooms, or mainstream forums, or even when I've sent things to publishers - I've done it all under a female name, just to be able to ditch your poxy privilege. Then I get fed up because I can't show them pictures of me, introduce them to the androgyne videos...if i were published under my real name, i wouldn't be able to tell them, even on writing sites.

It's unusual that before we argued you were pestering me and saying that i didn't have a male side...now your arguing the other way.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Nero

Quote from: Jörgen on October 18, 2008, 07:20:06 PM
I meant the strangers who comment on your masculinity.  :)

It is not mandatory for an androgyne to look gender-neutral though, is it?  :-\
And if something is in favour of your bio-gender, why not use it?  :-X

I really don't know why they do comment but I could be sporting cleavage and still get called a man.  :P

And cissexual privilege is fine if one admits to merely talking the talk and not walking the walk.

Posted on: October 18, 2008, 08:23:26 pm
Quote from: Pica Pica on October 18, 2008, 07:23:06 PM
Quote from: Nero on October 18, 2008, 07:08:51 PM
You dress male, you look male, you behave male.

That's how I dress, look and behave. No hiding there.

True, in the vids I do but on my male side a bit more, because that sort of public speaking is a male type of thing, I talk very like my dad, it's probably my most male bit, and it's a part of me.

What you expecting me to do, put on a camp act? Flounce around squealing 'ooo Mary'? Wear tshirts far too tight for me in an attempt to show off curves?? Cos that's not me.

I am not hiding behind anything, especially not this cissexual, heterosexual male privilege your so jealous of... when I do chat rooms, or mainstream forums, or even when I've sent things to publishers - I've done it all under a female name, just to be able to ditch your poxy privilege. Then I get fed up because I can't show them pictures of me, introduce them to the androgyne videos...if i were published under my real name, i wouldn't be able to tell them, even on writing sites.

It's unusual that before we argued you were pestering me and saying that i didn't have a male side...now your arguing the other way.

now I'm seeing a whole other strongly male side that makes up the real you.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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fluffy jorgen

They still have very interesting views on the whole subject.  ;D
Why does it... er... bother you so much how they live their life?

I don't think being androgyne is quite the same as being trans, anyway, so we can't really compare, since they're continuously being swayed from one side to the other, whereas when someone is trans, they know what and who they are, full stop.

I hope I made sense.  ;D
And, oh, is that bed I hear, calling me?  :D
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Pica Pica

Quote from: Nero on October 18, 2008, 07:26:54 PM
especially when you're posing as a female online

I do not pose, I give a female name and that is all - i never really understood why I even did it (it was this practice that tipped me off as trans in the first place). But the avoidance of your privilege is quite a good explanation. Of course now I've said about having this other, other (other, other, other) web name some people may think me creepy - another fun result of said 'privilege.' A woman doing the same would be understood - as indeed they have been (mr currer, george elliot, etc).

Quote from: Nero on October 18, 2008, 07:26:54 PM
that's because before I got to know you, I fell for your femme display (as many are prone to do, especially when you're posing as a female online). now I'm seeing a whole other unflattering and strongly male side that makes up the real you.

egads... a femme side and a male side...how very...... androgynous?

The truth is flitting around the middle, where I always claimed it to be. If you are reading my posts and first saw femme and then saw male...how am i hiding? How am I being something other than what i claim to be? What I have always claimed to be?

And as for femme display, what femme display? You were harranging me a second ago for having no femme display.

In real life I present as the person I am, in my videos I present as the more detached, logical (ish) part of me, on this site I used to enjoy the friendly goofy sides I like, alas I can't feel relaxed to have fun on here anymore...so you're getting the irritated, angry me, and have in a few threads the last few weeks...But in real life I present as I am and as I feel, I am incapable of maintaining an act, if I were capable of it, I would contradict myself a lot less as an act would be more consistent than i am. If I could maintain an act, I wouldn't have ever needed to come to this site.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Nero

I'm sorry. I've no wish to argue with you. I'll stop now.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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icontact

Eh. I would not blame anyone using their cisgender priveleges. Society in general does not understand androgynity as anything farther than a physical look. Not being one or the other will automatically give you the "freak" label. Society isn't ready to start bending the binary system. Not to mention all the questions you'd get asked and things that people are liable to say. "Why can't you just pick?" "That just makes you a girly guy, it doesn't mean you're androwhatever." "It's okay if you're a butch."

Mentality doesn't always have to translate into your physicality. Not to be anal with -ality words, but practicality is also a factor, especially when people have to make a living. And I realize we won't progress if nobody pushes the boundaries, but I'm just saying, I completely understand the position androgynes can be put in.
Hardly online anymore. You can reach me at http://cosyoucantbuyahouseinheaven.tumblr.com/ask
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Nero

Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Constance

If I understand you correctly, Nero, then I'm not an adrogyne because I don't fit your definition of it. Once again, some on this board tells me how I see myself is wrong because I don't conform/adhere to someone else's definitions.

Great.

Thanks a heap.

Shana A

I don't believe the definition of androgyne requires that a person must express an androgynous appearance. One can do so if they wish. Personally, I would like to express my androgyny more outwardly, re clothing, however one must also work for a living, pay the rent or mortgage, keep oneself safe from physical harm, etc. I make the compromises I must. This isn't cissexual privilege. I don't compromise how I act, and I make no pretense to act male. I make it a point to speak out against binary gender tyranny wherever possible, and do whatever I can to make this world a better place for the next generation of both binary and non binary gender persons. And it certainly isn't a hobby either. I would not have chosen something so painful as profound disconnect between physical body and mental gender awareness as a hobby.

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Nero

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on October 19, 2008, 01:21:40 PM
If I understand you correctly, Nero, then I'm not an adrogyne because I don't fit your definition of it. Once again, some on this board tells me how I see myself is wrong because I don't conform/adhere to someone else's definitions.

Great.

Thanks a heap.

Don't listen to me. I was being a bully.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Nicky

I'm really pissed off at you Nero. What are you hoping to achieve?
By discounting androgynes that 'hide' or don't meet your androgyne 'standards' your discounting the massive amount of pain and anguish we feel just like any other transgendered person.

Who cares what we wear, or how open we are? This is personal choice based on personal circumstance.
What is wrong with getting as much privaledge as we can get?

At least we don't go trying to hide from our pain by drinking heavily or taking our anger out on others. That's more dishonest than any 'deception' on our part. You're behaving just like most non-trans people, stuck on the idea that people have to be a certain way just because they have a particular gender. You should know better. You keep acting all tough and 'manly' but you are full of it. The other guys here don't act like you do. They are protective, nurturing and encouraging, and use their strength to defend rather than attack others. Stop being a poster boy for the worst aspects of masculinity and grow up a little.

Don't be such a cock all the time. You keep making excuses but at some point you need to own it.
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Constance

Personally, I don't seek any priveledge. I seek to be left alone. I'm beyond intorverted; I'm a hermit. I do not now, nor have I ever, sought any kind of priveledge over someone else because of what I am. I never chose to be born with this body. I refuse to apologize to anyone for it, and I refuse to be held accountable for it. It is what it is. I might be in my power to change it, but food, shelter, and clothing for my family is a far greater priority for me than any bodily transition I might desire.

Am I out? To those who matter most to me, yes. To the world in general, no. Why should I be? It's no one's bleeping business how I identify myself. I'm out to myself, and that's what really matters because it means I'm being honest with myself.

Nero

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why this discussion took place. I was reverting back to that 11 year old schoolyard bully I can't seem to shake.
I didn't mean a word in this thread. I love all of you, I'm sorry for starting this. I didn't mean it.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Constance

Quote from: Nero on October 19, 2008, 04:16:57 PM
It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out why this discussion took place. I was reverting back to that 11 year old schoolyard bully I can't seem to shake.
I didn't mean a word in this thread. I love all of you, I'm sorry for starting this. I didn't mean it.
OK, thanks for the clarification, Nero.

You'd always been one of the more supportive people here, I was really surprised by this thread. I was going over my posts wondering if I was among those who had offended you so.

Take care, Nero.

Nero

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on October 19, 2008, 04:22:11 PM
Quote from: Nero on October 19, 2008, 04:16:57 PM
It doesn't take a rocket science to figure out why this discussion took place. I was reverting back to that 11 year old schoolyard bully I can't seem to shake.
I didn't mean a word in this thread. I love all of you, I'm sorry for starting this. I didn't mean it.
OK, thanks for the clarification, Nero.

You'd always been one of the more supportive people here, I was really surprised by this thread. I was going over my posts wondering if I was among those who had offended you so.

Take care, Nero.

:embarrassed:
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Shana A

Quote from: Nero on October 19, 2008, 04:16:57 PM
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why this discussion took place. I was reverting back to that 11 year old schoolyard bully I can't seem to shake.
I didn't mean a word in this thread. I love all of you, I'm sorry for starting this. I didn't mean it.

Well, I think the proper punishment might be sending that 11 yr old bully to Candy Mountain  >:-) >:-) >:-)

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Saraloop

hmmm.. is there alot of kinds of androgynes ?

I thought I was maybe one but I dunno anymore if there's some kind of weird standard that's more than the definition.

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