Thomas Beatty expecting again!

[Dev]

Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?

"Well he *claims* to be a man,

but he's having a baby,"

so he must "really" be a woman."   

It undercuts the perception of our maleness.

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?  I know you don't speak for ALL transmen.   

None of us speak for all trans people, but I agree with him completely. 

As you undoubtedly know, most trans people currently take advantage of (and i do not mean this in a manipulative sense) very ambiguous laws and statutes that haven't necessarily been tested.  Or, as someone said in a thread a week or so ago, "it's legal 'til it's not."  The easiest way to keep these things from being dissected by fundies and their friends is to not rock the boat.

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 12:51:26 pmand i have never stated that I am childless.  For all you know, I've got ten running around from before I was male identified.

I agree also!   If you are going to be a man...be a man.  Don't go out there and openly give the world a reason to wage war on us or cheapen our efforts to move forward.  I will have children, but not from my body!  I am a man and will always be a man.  If my being angry about all this publicity makes me a bigot, then so be it...call me whatever you want but his(her?) actions have impacted all of us in some way or another directly or indirectly be it physical or verbal.   I don't apprecaite it at all.

[trannyboy]

So if a woman can't have kids she's less of a woman? If biomen are ever able to have children would that mean they aren't men? I thought we gave up that ignorance a long time ago, I guess not.

I agree this smacks of internalized transphobia and sexism. Heck now I want to get pregnant just to prove that it wouldn't make me less of a man but alas I have had the hysto already and I really hate the idea personally. As for not rocking the boat,?, no one is going to tell me that I am not allowed to do something just because it makes someone uncomfortable. Someone doubting my identity doesn't invalidate my identity, it just makes someone wrong about me. People told me I was damaging the community for doing drag post transition but that wasn't true either.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Mister]

It's unfortunate that our power structure is setup to identify each person by the least desirable classification that the person has.  I do not agree with the action or intention of every person who is right handed, brown haired, under the age of 35, a resident of the state of California nor people who wear the same kind of underwear.  It is perfectly logical and acceptable to voice an opposing opinion with anyone you share any of these or millions of other arbitrary traits with. 

Why is a voice stating they don't like the way that one person represents this particular trait so alarming?  If you told the fat speedo wearing man that it isn't the best look for him, it wouldn't be such an issue.  Hell, it wouldn't be such an issue with the general public either.  "Oh, look.  Another fat guy in a banana hammock."

[iFindMeHere]

Finally, do you really believe that the actions of one man in Bend, Oregon are going to harm anyone's transition?

"Well he *claims* to be a man,

but he's having a baby,"

so he must "really" be a woman."   

It undercuts the perception of our maleness.

*Deactivates Cloaking Device Momentarily*

She's right.  It really doesn't affect your life.  IMO this is internalized transphobia.  Just let it go.

*Resume Cloak*

yyyyyeah. no. that was me pointing out what transphobia in most people + beattie's actions will equal.

[joannatsf]

Christs I so hate this "Thomas Beatty" woman !

She's a woman period ... hell, she must have periods too ... no "guy" would choose to birth a kid, let alone two ? 

Sure if she'd kept it private rather than milking the media for $1000s of dollars it wouldn't have been an issue.

But I can't even understand a transguy putting transition "on hold" to have a child, let alone doing it from her supposedly "transitioned" perspective ?

Shame on her as it makes a mockery of trans issues, it gets in all the UK papers too, and even though I'm M2F it undermines everything I've struggled for to gain understanding and acceptance ... and when a joke like this re-appears on the front pages it makes me cringe. 

I know what everybody around me thinks of this and its kinda "Male pregnancy, pull the other one ... she's a woman" ... "Gross" ... "Money Grabber" ... "So sorry for the child" ... yup, that's the reality ...

If a transwoman elected to keep her male "equipment" and repeatedly impregnated her female partner / wife, would she have any claim to be a woman, be entitled to be called "she" ... think NOT !!!

Wish f....ng Thomas Beatty would have the common decency to dissapear.

Grrrrrr .....

It's good to discover from whence American bigotry came.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?  Thomas is legally and in all matters, male.  Sorry to stretch the boundaries of what's male and what's female, but by your transition you've done that yourself, yes?

[Laura Eva B]

Thomas is legally and in all matters, male.  Sorry to stretch the boundaries of what's male and what's female, but by your transition you've done that yourself, yes?

Some of us really don't want to stretch boundaries.  It kind of disturbs me that he/she can be seen as legally male when he/she is by any definition TG at the best, but more obviously ambivalent butch lesbian having undergone hrt (but not on it for a couple of years now) and masectomy.

I have no issues about what the person wants to be if they're honest about their status, but to claim to be a man and then very publicly birth two children beggars belief !

I'm generally for the "gender binary", least regarding our legal status and TS definition, but I accept a "gender spectrum", and if you want to muddle the barriers, be in-between, be gender-queer, please don't pretend to be what you are not.  Be proud of who you are but don't claim you are like me !

What offends most people's sensibilities is Thomas Beatty's claims and publicity leeching as a pregnant "man".  Men DON'T get pregnant !

P.S. And through my own transition I don't feel I've stretched any boundaries, I just corrected an error of nature with minimal "drama" and I'm accepted unambiguously as a woman by all who know me, whether they know of my history or not.

Laura x

[Nikki]

This post is disgusting and it isn't Thomas that is turning my stomach. The amount of bigotry here is revolting. It isn't my life and isn't your, we have no right to pass judgment least that judgment be turned on us. How can we expect society to accept us if we are so hateful towards our own community? So what if this man has a child or a dozen, so what if he makes news or gives interviews? What does it say about you? People will choose to discriminate against our community no matter what individuals do, should we justify it by saying he brought it on himself? Can anyone earn abuse? Thomas isn't the first FTM to get pregnant but he is the most well known. If you don't like the imagine Thomas is holding up for the world to see, give the world something else to see.

->-bleeped-<-boy

I think you're being quite unreasonable throwing bigotry accusations out at everyone who's uncomfortable with Thomas. I think very few if any of us including you want the first thing that comes to peoples minds when they think "transsexual" to be "pregnant man". Many of us are trying to quietly be accepted as normal members of our gender while the most publicly visible transsexual out there right now is enjoying publicly defying the most basic element of gender roles.

Personally I can't judge if he's a man or a woman or a real TS or any of that crap people like to use when they think they know better than the person in question what they are. But I am confident that rushing to the media with #2 loudly refutes his claim he just wanted the story people hear to be his own. His story got a wide hearing with #1 publicizing #2 right out of the gate just screams he's only looking for attention. And personally I don't need and can't respect his seeking this kind of attention.

He can do anything he wants with his body/life and still call himself any gender he pleases, but when he's rabidly chasing media attn the rest of us can call a pig a pig and not appreciate the damage he's doing to the image we are trying to get people to see of ourselves.

Remember the media didn't come to him, he came to the media... not once... but TWICE. You only need once if having your side heard is what you're really seeking.

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 10:06:13 pm

Men DON'T get pregnant!

This information should come as quite a shock to every transman here who has ever been pregnant... lol

[gina]

P.S. And through my own transition I don't feel I've stretched any boundaries, I just corrected an error of nature with minimal "drama" and I'm accepted unambiguously as a woman by all who know me, whether they know of my history or not.

Laura x

I hate to burst your bubble Laura, but to the world outside we're all just a bunch ->-bleeped-<-gots.

Come on now... was that really necessary ? 

gina

[Osiris]

Just wanna throw out there that there is research being done on the possibility of biological men carrying babies (this has been worked on long before Thomas ever put male pregnancy under the spotlight). There may be a point in time when it's not just transmen that can get pregnant, but all men could have this possibility.

[joannatsf]

Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights?  Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make?  Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around.  Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original.  She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.

There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery.  Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?

[GQjoey]

Even if it WERE possible for bio men to have children, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say 99.9% wouldn't do it. I'm not one to judge anyone, but when I have people that know about me, coming up to me, constantly asking "wtf", it DOES affect me being a trans man. Live and let live, no doubt. But why go public? Why give the world another reason to call us freaks.

[Mister]

Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights?  Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make?  Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around.  Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original.  She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.

There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery.  Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?

I'm all for reproductive rights.  Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus.  If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate. 

[Kristen]

I'm "on the fence" over this whole pregnant man thing. Here's why.

I would definitely not want to be a mother to a child which was conceived by using my penis so, I can't understand why a trans-man would want to utilize his womb to birth a baby.

But, the world is a complicated place and as trans-people we all think we know the answer when it comes to these kinds of issues.

Not a day goes by that someone on this forum is preaching about the acceptance of transgendered people by the cisgendered majority. Yet we are unable to be accepting of our own kind.

Perhaps we are threatened by this pregnant man because we came to realize that we are not as perfect and accepting as we thought we were.

[joannatsf]

Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights?  Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make?  Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around.  Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original.  She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.

There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery.  Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?

I'm all for reproductive rights.  Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus.  If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate. 

And that's your choice.  But can you see that someone else might choose differently?  I would doubt there is much clinical evidence of the effects of HRT on a fetus conceived after cessation of therapy.  There are also lots of tests that can bbe done to determine the health of a fetus in utero.  I just watched BW's show and found the Beatty's a charming family.  May the live happily ever after. 

[Jeannette]

Some words you've all taught me: live & let live!

[iFindMeHere]

Christs I so hate this "Thomas Beatty" woman !

She's a woman period ... hell, she must have periods too ... no "guy" would choose to birth a kid, let alone two ? 

Sure if she'd kept it private rather than milking the media for $1000s of dollars it wouldn't have been an issue.

But I can't even understand a transguy putting transition "on hold" to have a child, let alone doing it from her supposedly "transitioned" perspective ?

Shame on her as it makes a mockery of trans issues, it gets in all the UK papers too, and even though I'm M2F it undermines everything I've struggled for to gain understanding and acceptance ... and when a joke like this re-appears on the front pages it makes me cringe. 

I know what everybody around me thinks of this and its kinda "Male pregnancy, pull the other one ... she's a woman" ... "Gross" ... "Money Grabber" ... "So sorry for the child" ... yup, that's the reality ...

If a transwoman elected to keep her male "equipment" and repeatedly impregnated her female partner / wife, would she have any claim to be a woman, be entitled to be called "she" ... think NOT !!!

Wish f....ng Thomas Beatty would have the common decency to dissapear.

Grrrrrr .....

*laughs his ass off but is in no way mocking you*

Posted on: November 15, 2008, 06:55:48 am

This post is disgusting and it isn't Thomas that is turning my stomach. The amount of bigotry here is revolting. It isn't my life and isn't your, we have no right to pass judgment least that judgment be turned on us. How can we expect society to accept us if we are so hateful towards our own community? So what if this man has a child or a dozen, so what if he makes news or gives interviews? What does it say about you? People will choose to discriminate against our community no matter what individuals do, should we justify it by saying he brought it on himself? Can anyone earn abuse? Thomas isn't the first FTM to get pregnant but he is the most well known. If you don't like the imagine Thomas is holding up for the world to see, give the world something else to see.

->-bleeped-<-boy

I think you're being quite unreasonable throwing bigotry accusations out at everyone who's uncomfortable with Thomas. I think very few if any of us including you want the first thing that comes to peoples minds when they think "transsexual" to be "pregnant man". Many of us are trying to quietly be accepted as normal members of our gender while the most publicly visible transsexual out there right now is enjoying publicly defying the most basic element of gender roles.

Personally I can't judge if he's a man or a woman or a real TS or any of that crap people like to use when they think they know better than the person in question what they are. But I am confident that rushing to the media with #2 loudly refutes his claim he just wanted the story people hear to be his own. His story got a wide hearing with #1 publicizing #2 right out of the gate just screams he's only looking for attention. And personally I don't need and can't respect his seeking this kind of attention.

He can do anything he wants with his body/life and still call himself any gender he pleases, but when he's rabidly chasing media attn the rest of us can call a pig a pig and not appreciate the damage he's doing to the image we are trying to get people to see of ourselves.

Remember the media didn't come to him, he came to the media... not once... but TWICE. You only need once if having your side heard is what you're really seeking.

NIKKI is my SHERO once again!

[/quote]

Posted on: November 14, 2008, 10:06:13 pm

Men DON'T get pregnant!

This information should come as quite a shock to every transman here who has ever been pregnant... lol

uh. As one of them. I agree. I spent EIGHT MONTHS (didn't figure it out cos...well...i never related to the concept) in a HORRID state of dissociation. Pregnancy was a NIGHTMARE and i'll tell you something. I love my kid, but when i had a miscarriage 1.5 years later I was sad, sure, but mostly relieved.

[Mister]

Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights?  Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make?  Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around.  Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original.  She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.

There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery.  Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?

I'm all for reproductive rights.  Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus.  If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate. 

And that's your choice.  But can you see that someone else might choose differently?  I would doubt there is much clinical evidence of the effects of HRT on a fetus conceived after cessation of therapy.  There are also lots of tests that can bbe done to determine the health of a fetus in utero.  I just watched BW's show and found the Beatty's a charming family.  May the live happily ever after. 

Of course I can.  The problem comes from your eggs swimming around in testosterone for years- there are *no* studies on how this could impact your kid.  My issue with this dude has never been the fact that he is pregnant- other than concern for the health and safety of his kid - but rather that he has gone so very public with it.  Personal actions become political when you're part of a minority group and immeasurably so when you start putting yourself in the eyes of the media.

[soldierjane]

I think that he is definitely transgendered, which begs him at least a modicum of respect from his "community". He identifies as a he, he prefers male pronouns. We know what that means, right?

Now, I definitely wish Barbara Walters and Oprah knew better than to give him screen time. Why? Because their reports on trans children and trans people have done so much good to bring home the reality and the ordeal of what this is to the cisgendered majority, who has no clue but who is so instrumental in our quest for equal rights.

Thomas is inching towards the Bat boy side with this one. I don't mind him having children but I wish he would keep things private.

[Shana A]

I said this during the first media go around, and I'll say it again, Thomas Beattie is a real mensch (man for those who don't speak Yiddish). This is all about choice, if a transman wants to bear children, all power to him, if a transwoman wants to keep her penis and impregnate her wife, likewise, all power to her. I don't see why we as a community need to adhere to 1950s stereotypes about what is male and female appropriate behavior. No matter how much we toe the line, the h8ers aren't going to change their negative opinions about us. Why can't we live and let live. BTW, regardless whether one agrees with Thomas' choices, he is a man, and should not be called a woman or addressed with female pronouns, especially by people in our own community.

Z

[joannatsf]

I think that he is definitely transgendered, which begs him at least a modicum of respect from his "community". He identifies as a he, he prefers male pronouns. We know what that means, right?

Now, I definitely wish Barbara Walters and Oprah knew better than to give him screen time. Why? Because their reports on trans children and trans people have done so much good to bring home the reality and the ordeal of what this is to the cisgendered majority, who has no clue but who is so instrumental in our quest for equal rights.

Thomas is inching towards the Bat boy side with this one. I don't mind him having children but I wish he would keep things private.

Did you actually watch the show?  A segment was devoted to the changing face of the family and it's expanding definition.  Barbara Walters isn't Mike Wallace.  It was very supportivr of LGBT people in it's content.

Posted on: 15 November 2008, 10:08:31

Isn't this really about choice and reproductive rights?  Shouldn't Thomas Beatty be able to make the same choices that any other human can make?  Thomas didn't seek publicity the seond time around.  Barbara Walters wanted to do a follow-up story from the original.  She guessed about the second pregnancy and Mr. Beatty confirmed it.

There are many FTMs that don't opt for the bottom surgery.  Should they be told to be good little boys and not start a family of their own?

I'm all for reproductive rights.  Before you start testosterone, you're given the option of banking your eggs and told that you may not be fertile if you were to cease treatment and that if you manage to get pregnant, there is risk to the fetus.  If someone wants to *safely* exercise their reproductive rights AND transition, have kids beforehand or bank your eggs for a surrogate. 

And that's your choice.  But can you see that someone else might choose differently?  I would doubt there is much clinical evidence of the effects of HRT on a fetus conceived after cessation of therapy.  There are also lots of tests that can bbe done to determine the health of a fetus in utero.  I just watched BW's show and found the Beatty's a charming family.  May the live happily ever after. 

Of course I can.  The problem comes from your eggs swimming around in testosterone for years- there are *no* studies on how this could impact your kid.  My issue with this dude has never been the fact that he is pregnant- other than concern for the health and safety of his kid - but rather that he has gone so very public with it.  Personal actions become political when you're part of a minority group and immeasurably so when you start putting yourself in the eyes of the media.

The Beatty's daughter is normal and very cute!    Starting a family is one of the most personal choices a person can make.  I don't think politics was part of that decision for Mr. and Mrs. Beatty.  I'm grateful they made the effort to expand the definition of Mother and Father.