The Frustrations of Androgynehood.

[Jemma]

I wonder, that to the degree that a bunch of options are open, how compelled would the choice be?  How strong is the drive to follow path a OR path b when you have paths from c-z open also.

A lot of this depends on environment and education.  Without the proper support or understanding of the situations, regardless of the options available, nothing will ever change.

[tekla]

Environment to the degree that different places offer different choices to a huge degree.

[Mazarine_Sky]

tekla, that's almost how I feel. I feel like I'm supposed to be tough looking (I'm a good fighter, but I don't look like it), supposed to be not as emotional or caring, but I don't want to be. I want to be one of the guys, but also want to be one of the girls. But it's very hard to be both. Because I know the guys will get weirded out, the gay guys will make fun of me (some do already), and the girls will either love me even more, or get weirded out. And as a Pansexual, I want to love everyone. But nobody gets that, and both sides of me yell at me and tell me to pick one or the other, but I don't want to.
It's just hard, you know?

[tekla]

Yes, I'm aware that you can make enemies on both sides pretty quick, but once you get out in the world, you can make people feel good about it too.  A lot of it depends on how you incorporate it in yourself.  And another part is finding the people who are OK with it, and leaving the others alone.

[Mazarine_Sky]

Good point.

[Constance]

And another part is finding the people who are OK with it, and leaving the others alone.

That can be tricky. But fortunately places like Susan's exists.

[Mazarine_Sky]

Yeah, thankfully. I'm actually noticing places like these are on the rise, so it's definitely become easier for us.
I like being Androgynous. Also being Bi-gendered, as annoying at it can get sometimes- I can't imagine myself being any other way.

[Nicky]

I can't imagine myself being any other way either.

I don't know if anyone else notices this but there definitly seems to be a whole lot us comming out of the woodwork lately. I think popular youth culture is making it easier for androgynes to come to the realisation that they are androgynes (e,g, manga, EMO etc) by giving people a space to realise that hey, this is exactly how I feel inside.

[Eva Marie]

1. Not fitting into a man's world, and not fitting into a woman's world either. Just kind of stuck in the middle. Having essentially no close friends because I don't fit in anywhere, and apparently i'm too weird.

2. As a part of #1, not having a label like MTF to apply to myself and not having a final dispensation/goal. I mean, what the hell do I aim for?

3. Being an outsider here on even on this board, even though a spot has grudgingly been made for androgynes.

4. Not being "trans" enough, and as a result getting blown off/ignored by other TS people.

Thats all that comes to mind at the moment.

[Mazarine_Sky]

I agree, but I haven't been here long enough to say whether or not I agree with number 3, because so far it seems like I'm finally no longer an outsider here.

[Eva Marie]

I agree, but I haven't been here long enough to say whether or not I agree with number 3, because so far it seems like I'm finally no longer an outsider here.

I had this thread in mind when I posted that.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22474.0.html

[Mazarine_Sky]

Ah, I can see where you're coming from on that...

[Constance]

The thread https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22474.0.html lead in turn to https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html.

I'm not sure I fully understand the following definitions.

Androgyne: An androgynous person

Androgynous: Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

If I understand these definitions properly, being androgynous "in dress, appearance, or behavior" is a prerequisite for being considered an Androgyne. If I understand these definitions properly, "androgyne" is not really a gender identity?

I identify myself as an androgyne. On occasion my dress might appear androgynous or maybe genderqueer. My physical appearance is definitely male. Without a great deal of money, that's not going to change. I'd need full-body hair removal, FFS, and the like to look more like something in between or neither fe/male. Behavior? It's typically a female role to prepare the family's meals. As I do that, does this count?

Closer examination makes me think I might not qualify as an androgyne according to Susan's definitions. As this is her site, I will not challenge these definitions at all. She does indicate that I'm free to start my own site or leave. Those are her rules and I intend to stick to them.

I don't really qualify as a cross-dresser either, though. I do wear women's clothes often, but I don't attempt to look like a woman when I do so. Is that an expression of androgyne?

I've posted this before and I'll do so now again. If I am at the wrong site, I will delete my account and go away quietly. It is not my intention to be disruptive.

[RebeccaFog]

We had the frustrations of womanhood and manhood so we might as well have a thread on the frustrations of androgynehood.

1. Boys in the hood
2. Robin Hood
3. Not having a hood
4. Piercings in the hood (ok, only frustrating waiting for them to heal)
5. Rebis

I'm only number 5?   I have some work to do.   

[RebeccaFog]

Seldom being 100% sure that I'm not just deluding myself

Feeling like a failed woman

Feeling guilty for not IDing/presenting as androgyne in more spaces

Feeling guilty for not having started IDing/presenting as androgyne earlier in life

Feeling like I should just be able to shrug all of this off or sort it out, and if I was "really" 3rd I would just be able to

Feeling bad for feeling bad, when there's so many people far worse off

Wondering if things will ever get better

I hate those ones too.

[RebeccaFog]

I've posted this before and I'll do so now again. If I am at the wrong site, I will delete my account and go away quietly. It is not my intention to be disruptive.

You're not at the wrong site, Shades. We love you.

You can't be at the wrong place if you fit in.  This is our clique and you're a part of it. 

Besides, we're going to need someone to pin everything on if we get caught.

[Nero]

I agree with Reebs. Shades, you're definitely wanted. We'd miss you terribly if you left.

[Constance]

Thanks Rebis, Nero.

I just want to be sure that I'm not violating the rules of this site. If the site is intended for certain persons and I don't meet those criteria, then I should not be here.

I hope that my understanding of "androgyne" is just skewed a bit and that I really do belong here, as the site's owner has defined things.

[Kaelin]

Shades, here's one take:

An androgyne is a person who does not fit cleanly into the typical masculine and feminine gender roles of their society. Much in the same way as androgyny, androgyne can be used in two related ways: on the one hand, to refer to someone whose gender role or presentation is not typically masculine or feminine, and on the other hand to someone who claims a gender identity outside male and female.

The underlines are my emphasis, but this definition is right from the Wiki.  On the counts of both gender role and gender identity, you seem to fit the definition.

In the case of Susan's problematic example (an "androgyne" wanting insanely enormous breasts), it might be appropriate to exclude people who have (auto)erotic reasons.  It's the same sort of clause that separates crossdressers from transvestic fetishists.  Or MtF transsexuals from " ->-bleeped-<-cs."

[Constance]

Thanks, Kaelin.

I just went to the Wiki here and looked up androgyne, and the definition there seems a bit less rigid than the other one I'd found. So, I guess I'm OK.