Dismayed

[Stephanie]

Last Saturday I was on the train going into town when this girl got on the train wearing very heavy make up.  Three teenage girls in front of me immediately picked up on something about this girl and started whispering 'is that a boy or a girl'?  To my horror this girl who was about 17 or 18 banished all doubts about her gender when she sat in the most masculine manner possible.  She was slumped low in her seat with her legs wide apart.  At the train station she strode off walking fast and taking big strides.  Why did she go to all that trouble with her hair and make-up and then completely shatter her very passable appearance by her sulky teen boy manner, body language and walk?  People in a large busy station were actually turning their heads to look at her.
  I was depressed for the rest of the day.  Perhaps she was a sissy and wanted all that attention?  Sissies love to humiliate themselves in public.

[JonasCarminis]

what do you mean by sissy?  and what does it matter?  how do you even know that the person was trans?  possibly a man who likes makup and womens clothing.  a masculinely built woman with male mannerisms... you get the point.  but who are you to judge?

[tekla]

I don't understand how what another person wears impacts you at all.

[Stephanie]

There seems to be some confusion here, so let me clear things up.

(1) This person was not a masculine woman or a FTM.

(2) She had gone to considerable lengths with her hair and make-up to look conventionally feminine. She was wearing girls' jeans and female jacket.

(3) I wasn't judging her per se I was just very surprised that after going to all the above trouble to pass as a teenage girl she then did her utmost to prove that she wasn't a genetic girl.  Her manner and body language was so masculine that I supposed that her true intention was to draw as much attention to herself as possible.  I thought that she must be either an exhibitionist or a 'sissy'.

(4) A 'sissy' in the sense that I meant it can be described as subscribing to some or all of the following characteristics, beliefs, attitudes etc.

A sissy often seeks what they call a 'mistress'.  This is a genetic woman who agrees to treat them like a 'gurl'(their words) and who will give them 'sissy assigments' to do either in private or in public.  For example, a mistress might send her sissy out to buy tampons while wearing ultra feminine clothes.  Or a sissy might be sent by her mistress to a lingerie store and told to ask the assistants there if she can try the items on.  Sissies like to be beaten and put into chastity by their mistress. As sissies are very into Fem-Dom and public humiliation, and this girl did everything possible to draw attention to herself I concluded that her 'mistress' had given her an assignment to 'go out en femme wearing full make-up in the middle of the day and make sure everyone who sees you knows that that you are really a boy' that is how I understood the situation.   

I was not trying to cause offence I just cannot understand anyone trying so hard to pass as a girl then deliberately doing everything possible to undermine that.  And no this wasn't a case of someone behaving unconsciously in a stereotypical male manner.  This woman knew exactly what she was doing.
I should have made it clear in my OP that this happened in the middle of the afternoon.  It did not happen at night, nor did it take place in New York, or LA, or Miami.  This incident happened in broad-daylight in a provincial, fairly conservative British city.
   

[tekla]

Boy oh boy, you seem to have the ability to read people's minds.  How scary is that?

Projecting your thoughts and feelings and emotions on other people is kind of like masterbating for babies, sure that action is close, but alone its not going to count.  (now clean yourself up)

You have no idea what this other person was doing, what they thought they were doing, or why.

And the question still stands... What the fark is it to you anyway?

And sissies are a lot stronger than you think.  It ain't easy growing up like that, and most are a lot stronger than you think they are.

[Just Kate]

I never heard of a "sissy" as a sub-cultural group.  Is that a Britian thing?  Learn something new everyday!

[tekla]

There is a book called Mississippi Sissy that is a great read, I like it a lot.  It will change the way you think about that word.

[SisterGirlfriend]

Maybe it was just a scene boy who wears make-up and does his hair up. Big deal.

[Stephanie]

This person was being pointed at and laughed at by everyone who saw her.  I was hoping that people here would read between the lines and see the reason I am upset by this, but apparently not.  Because she was dressed so girlishly and behaving so manly she undermined people like us.  Those people were laughing at us as well.  Many will think that she was a typical '->-bleeped-<-'.  I don't want people laughing at us because of her clownish behaviour.  I found her attitude offensive to the TS community.

[Just Kate]

Maybe it was just a scene boy who wears make-up and does his hair up. Big deal.

*Quickly grabs his slang dictionary to look up "scene boy"*

Man I must be waaay behind to not know all this terminology.

[Stephanie]

There are so many stereotypes and crazy misperceptions about transsexuals in the public's mind that I get upset when I see someone reinforce those prejudices.
I am only out to my mother and sister and I was amazed at their assumptions about me.  My mother thought that I wanted to be a woman because I was gay and wanted to attract men.  She kept telling me 'you don't need to wear female clothes and make up to get a boyfriend you know'. I still think that she believes that transsexuality is some exotic form of homosexuality.

[Chrissty]

Hi Stephanie,

Also coming from the UK, I have seen this a few times.

I honestly think that some folk simply have no idea about how they are acting, and they believe that just clothes and make-up are enough to pass in public.  If people practice dressing alone they may never realise they have a "problem" until they get into a difficult situation. I really don't think you will see many "sissies" in the middle of the day on a train, dressed in jeans.

The most memorable incident for me, was when one such person appeared in a quiet bookshop while I was presenting male. They were in their 50's, had done an acceptable job on their appearance, and had a lot of confidence. Naturally I spotted them in a flash, but they would have got away with just an occasional glace from the other cisgendered people in the shop, if they had simply bought the item they picked, said thank you, and left....

...but no, with a really creepy slowly deepening voice, this person decided to comment on the weather, then they said they liked the shop assistants top, asked where she bought it, was she going out this weekend, did she have a boyfriend, did she like her dress..etc..etc..

10 seconds into the conversation any doubts about birth sex of this person had disappeared, but assistant kept a brave face and answered the increasingly personal questions as politely as she could. After 6 minutes this person left, and the shop assistant broke down in a pool of tears leaving the people in the shop, and her manager (who had been about to intervene) in no doubt about what had just taken place.

I'm sure this "sister" thinks she passes well, but my sympathy for her "polite" conversation went after the 2nd minute of probing questions with the poor girl. OK...she is still my "sister", but like Stephanie says, I don't happen to think she did herself, or the rest of us, any favours.

If we are honest, I think we all know times where we were a little over confident, and have walked around with "that sign" above our heads. If we keep our composure and go about our business without seeking attention, we will find we are mostly accepted with little more than a single glance or comment, and can learn from the experience.


Chrissty

[Mister]

Hi Stephanie,

Also coming from the UK, I have seen this a few times.

I honestly think that some folk simply have no idea about how they are acting, and they believe that just clothes and make-up are enough to pass in public.  If people practice dressing alone they may never realise they have a "problem" until they get into a difficult situation. I really don't think you will see many "sissies" in the middle of the day on a train, dressed in jeans.

The most memorable incident for me, was when one such person appeared in a quiet bookshop while I was presenting male. They were in their 50's, had done an acceptable job on their appearance, and had a lot of confidence. Naturally I spotted them in a flash, but they would have got away with just an occasional glace from the other cisgendered people in the shop, if they had simply bought the item they picked, said thank you, and left....

...but no, with a really creepy slowly deepening voice, this person decided to comment on the weather, then they said they liked the shop assistants top, asked where she bought it, was she going out this weekend, did she have a boyfriend, did she like her dress..etc..etc..

10 seconds into the conversation any doubts about birth sex of this person had disappeared, but assistant kept a brave face and answered the increasingly personal questions as politely as she could. After 6 minutes this person left, and the shop assistant broke down in a pool of tears leaving the people in the shop, and her manager (who had been about to intervene) in no doubt about what had just taken place.

I'm sure this "sister" thinks she passes well, but my sympathy for her "polite" conversation went after the 2nd minute of probing questions with the poor girl. OK...she is still my "sister", but like Stephanie says, I don't happen to think she did herself, or the rest of us, any favours.

If we are honest, I think we all know times where we were a little over confident, and have walked around with "that sign" above our heads. If we keep our composure and go about our business without seeking attention, we will find we are mostly accepted with little more than a single glance or comment, and can learn from the experience.


Chrissty

I think the subject in this post lives here in SF. 

[tekla]

Oh, SF, where the person with the purple and green hair and the Black&Decker facial modifications is standing next to the person who is dressed to resemble a traffic cone, and this one person stands out?  Yeesh.

[Mister]

Oh, SF, where the person with the purple and green hair and the Black&Decker facial modifications is standing next to the person who is dressed to resemble a traffic cone, and this one person stands out?  Yeesh.
[/quote

It was the long line of improper personal questions that got me.  i'd name names, but i'm sure that's probably in violation of some rule or another.

[Stephanie]

Hi Chrissty

             You are probably right, I think that she probably was just unaware of her body language etc.  I hope that she didn't encounter any trouble.

[Renate]

On the flip side:

I was on a subway last week and this woman came on. She had this enormously large coiffed and braided hair, was wearing a coat made from road kill and 4" heels. I had her pegged in a second and she probably had me pegged too. During the ten minute trip she fussed frenetically with the contents of a large makeup kit applying every single conceivable compound.

So right now, she's probably posting on some forum a post about transsexuals like me who bring disrepute on all transsexuals by innatention to details, wearing non-stylish jeans and sneakers and generally looking like a bull-dyke.

[imaz]

To be honest all of us are different.

Myself I'm lazy and can't be bothered with make-up, dressing feminine or whatever. Some of us are TS and butch and some of us femme, live and let live

For various reasons, including being married to one, the vast majority of my friends are lesbians. Some of them dress feminine and others don't but they are all women the same. My wife who was considered butch back home is considered super femme here in the West, different standards, different places.

Personally I think the whole having to look and act "feminine" is a little like how it was in the old days concerning sexuality. All that business about having to go out with men if one is MTF and vice versa for FTMs. As we now know that was more about the "experts" and their personal issues than about their clients.