What ways does androgyny affect you?

[Pica Pica]

   I am just realizing that most of my life I have been unconsciously referring to other people as 'they' or 'them'. I've never really been using gender specific pronouns in reference to others and I know I don't really like them to be used in reference to me.  I can handle it better now because I understand where the revulsion was coming from.

  Also, I think I have been choosing gender neutral clothing. Nothing specificall masculine and nothing overtly feminine.

  Hooray for me! My self understanding advances. 

That's good...hurray for self understanding.

I started to come round to all this stuff when I ruined (or at least seriously dented) someone's dissertation about gender reference in linguistics. Apparently I told a whole anecdote about meeting a person without revealing that person's gender. (I let her tap my phone for three months, we were strangers before but now she feels like she knows me. We don't talk.) Which is apparently unknown and against all linguistic norms and gave her a serious headache to explain. If only I had settled or been brave enough to reveal my gendery issues a year ago and she may have had more of an explanation.

[Kendall]

That last poll on presentation was interesting to see the comments and new votes, I was wondering if there were any changes in this poll, or those that want to vote in this poll.

Kendall

[imaz]

Interesting poll, it taught me a lot I guess.

I'm so called mtf and have been on HRT for nearly 20 years but I do like being androgynous  to be honest. I'll dress in men's clothes on purpose to present in an androgynous way as I have a feminine physique.

Guess it's a bit weird, anyone else like that?

[Kaelin]

Holy thread-necromancy Batman!

I don't have specific suggestions as such, but I will offer a response or commentary on each question.

Gender Identity: I am pretty sure I am male.

Gender Biology: Ambivalent.

Communication style: I tend to do what comes naturally.  My voice sound is definitely "male," but the style is closer to neutral as far as I can tell.

Socially: Others should relate to me as a person, but they are welcome to see that I am male.

Clothing: People (myself included) should dress according to the clothing's merits.  Gender should not play a (direct) function here.  Like with other topics, I am not going to go out of my way to be gender-incongruent for the sake of being incongruent.

Intimate Relationship: I feel like a guy and seem to be attracted exclusively to women.  I don't see myself or a partner needing fulfill any sort of polar roles, though (dominant/submissive, worldly/domestic, etc).

Character: It's hard for one's character to be strictly gender-congruent, and I don't know what it would mean anyway since there are so many self-contradictions.  I guess I'm androgynous, though.

Values and Virtues: I want all people (myself included) to be able to pursue goals and such without regard to gender.  Worthy goals and plans should stand on their merit instead of use gender as an arbitrary crutch or barrier.

Religion or Beliefs: I would hope that people would accept androgyny as a good thing.  However, I am agnostic, and "belong to a group of people" does not particularly appeal to me anyway.

Gender Roles: With a handful of extemely special and peculiar exceptions, everyone should be able to participate in roles and activities without regard to gender.

Gender Behavior: I tend to behave without regard to my gender, and I guess I get "mixed" results.

Politically: I suppose androgyny gives me an extra urgency in supporting policy that protects and does not harm those who express/act androgynously.

Educational: Sure.

Literary: I don't read stories/books regularly, but as I consume any literature, I find cliches/stereotypes/sentimentalism to be annoying and uninteresting.  Usually literature that relies too heavily on these devices is crap anyway.

Hobbies, sports, or interests: I guess so, but there's a male lean.

Thinking: Yeah.

Career: I don't have enough of a sample size here.

Music, Movies, Entertainment: It's kind of like with literature.  Unless I have something interesting to pull out of it, I'm not biting.

Pronouns and Gender Referrences: These are a necessary headache.  Much to the shagrin of English teachers, plural pronouns for the third-person seems to be the most natural answer.

Science: It'd be nice to use scientific research, because it gives us insight into the true impact that sex and gender play without overstating those roles.  However, those that resist androgyny tend to not be particularly interested in the fair application of such research, and a lot of research is heavily confounded, so I'm not too invested in this side of things.  It's just preferable to the alternatives when it comes to "debate."

[Nicky]

Relevant poetry for andro's...

The Tiger
  
TIGER, tiger, burning bright  
In the forests of the night,  
What immortal hand or eye  
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?  
 
In what distant deeps or skies         
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?  
On what wings dare he aspire?  
What the hand dare seize the fire?  
 
And what shoulder and what art  
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?  
And when thy heart began to beat,  
What dread hand and what dread feet?  
 
What the hammer? what the chain?  
In what furnace was thy brain?  
What the anvil? What dread grasp 
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?  
 
When the stars threw down their spears,  
And water'd heaven with their tears,  
Did He smile His work to see?  
Did He who made the lamb make thee?   2
 
Tiger, tiger, burning bright  
In the forests of the night,  
What immortal hand or eye  
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?



The Jaguar

The apes yawn and adore their fleas in the sun.
The parrots shriek as if they were on fire, or strut
Like cheap tarts to attract the stroller with the nut.
Fatigued with indolence, tiger and lion

Lie still as the sun. The boa-constrictor's coil
Is a fossil. Cage after cage seems empty, or
Stinks of sleepers from the breathing straw.
It might be painted on a nursery wall.

But who runs like the rest past these arrives
At a cage where the crowd stands, stares, mesmerized,
As a child at a dream, at a jaguar hurrying enraged
Through prison darkness after the drills of his eyes

On a short fierce fuse. Not in boredom—
The eye satisfied to be blind in fire,
By the bang of blood in the brain deaf the ear—
He spins from the bars, but there's no cage to him

More than to the visionary his cell:
His stride is wildernesses of freedom:
The world rolls under the long thrust of his heel.
Over the cage floor the horizons come.

Ted Hughes


I love those poems,

[Lokaeign]

Gender Identity: you are a non polar gender person.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  After years of struggling frantically to force myself to identify as "female," I now identify pretty strongly as third gendered.

Gender Biology: you have or desire mixed sexual anatomy.

I'd like to look more masculine.  I dislike my hips, bubble-butt, weak muscles and squeaky voice.  I hate--hate hate HATE--my boobs.  I'm more or less indifferent to the bottom region one way or the other; I suppose I'd like that area to be more ambiguous also but I'm not distressed over it the way I am over the other stuff.

Communication style: you do or wish to have mixed gender communication styles or voice sound.

I wish I didn't have a stupid squeaky voice.  I'm often ACCUSED of communicating "like a man," whatever that means, usually as a way to silence me and dismiss what I'm saying.  Apparently offering a rational counterargument to something that my interlocutor feels vewy stwongly is oppressive and patriarchal.  Then again, if I should happen to manifest emotion, I am being "hysterical" and need to "calm down."


Socially: you do or wish to relate to others as a non polar gender person.

Ugh, how do you even do that?  Because I'm so big, I can't NOT be read as female anymore, even when I wear all-male attire.  I wish I could be read as non gender polar, but since most people seem to have an urgent need to assign you a binary gender it's just that, a wish.


Clothing: you do or want to dress in mixed or neutral clothing.

My clothing is increasingly blokey to offset my feminine appearance.


Intimate Relationship: you do or wish to be involved in a romantic relationship in a non polar way or manner.

Wish. I'm working on it with my partner.


Character: you do or want to have characteristics that are androgynous.

Want to have.

Values and Virtues: you do or want to have goals and values that are universal and without gender limit.

The idea of goals and values having a gender limit is meaningless to me.

Religion or Beliefs: you do or want to belong to a group of people with beliefs that support your androgynous beliefs.

Yes and no.  Certain elements of the heathen mainstream would like to see me and people like me horsewhipped and bogged.  I've been lucky enough to encounter groups and individuals who support me, however.


Gender Roles: you do or want to allow yourself to doing mixed or undefined  gender role activities.

Always have.

Gender Behavior: you do or feel the urge to behave in mixed gender ways.

Always have.

Politically: you androgyny affects who you vote for and what issues are important to you in the political sense.

Not exactly.  I support rights for people of all kinds of genders, not just mine.

Educational: your androgyny helps you and influences the types of knowledge and interests (or barriers you break) in your quest for higher learning.

Always has.


Literary: your androgyny influences what types of authors or stories you read.

Not exactly.  I was keen to read "boy's books" as a kid.  Now I enjoy book with characters who share my characteristics, including androgyny.


Hobbies, sports, or interests: your androgyny influences what types you do.

Always has.

Thinking: do you feel you think in a androgynous way.

I don't understand what that means.  I experience myself as androgynous.


Career: do you feel it influences your occupation.

Along with other factors.  I've been continually denied my preferred kinds of employment for being the "wrong" gender, but then I've been denied employment over things like having epilepsy etc. too.

Music, Movies, Entertainment

?

Pronouns and Gender Referrences

I've struggled with this one, really.  Most of the time, if I am honest, I don't feel like anything except an it--something broken, unacceptable, less than human.  This makes it very hard to hold space for a neuter pronoun like "ze."  Also I have to confess that logically "she" or "he" aren't inappropriate, although they both sting a little for very different reasons.

Science: Support or desire scientific information, tests, and research that may help explain or make androgyny understood scientifically.

I support scientific investigation of the human condition, including gender, as an antidote to bigotry and ignorance.