So why not?

[cindybc]

Well sis, that wouldn't stop me from taking you out to a restaurant of your choice. 

Cindy

[Cindy]

I think we are getting a little caught up in semantics.
I came to this site to give and recieve support.

I have GID, I identify as female. I am female.
End of story.

Cindy James

[heatherrose]

What have I done so wrong that I get rejected by the very people that are here to help.

Janet Babe, You KNOW better than that.
I love you and I don't believe anyone is rejecting you.
This is just an excersize in definitions.
Unlike US there are people who are comfortable with
themselves being half way between, so to speak,
and this forum is for those brothers and sisters.
The fact "IS" that "IF" you had the dough,
You'd probably be waking up in the recovery room in Trinidad,
in the bed next to mine. .
So, TECHNICALLY you ARE a pre-op transsexual like me.

Screw a friggin' label any cotton pickin' ways.

Why try to stuff yourself into a box?
Boxes are stuffy, dark, ill-fitting and are
usually made by someone else.
Labels are more portable but
they cover part of your beauty.

.....And I for one am glad that you weren't sucessful
in checking out the last time. How the hell would I have met you
and found out what an awsome sister you ARE?!!!

[V M]

Well, maybe those like me who cannot afford srs at this time would be considered special ops.

[hayden.]

If you knew my financial situation, the possibility of affording SRS is somewhere between Never and when Hell freezes over. 

I thought some of you would understand that at least.  But if I am not non-op.  And not pre-op because I couldn't afford SRS or anything else surgical.  Then what am I?

Can't answer question about being post-op because I am not.  Can't be in a section for non-ops, because I am not deemed non-op.  Don't feel like a pre-op, because it will never happen that I can see.  Not a true transsexual because I don't aggressively seek SRS.  I sure as Hell not a GD s*e-m**e, nor a ch**k with a d**k.

A woman stuck between hell and damnation.  Some times I wish that I had made it the last time I slit my wrists.

What have I done so wrong that I get rejected by the very people that are here to help.

non-op, pre-op, post-op -- who cares?
you're a woman, not some stupid label.

[heatherrose]

Well sis, that wouldn't stop me from taking you out to a restaurant of your choice. 

Come on Ladies, where's it gonna be,
Tim Horton's or Sherri's?
Let's go, I'm buyin'.

[V M]

non-op, pre-op, post-op -- who cares?
you're a woman, not some stupid label.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at

[heatherrose]

...special ops.

Ya, we could wear that label on our pink camo uniforms.

[Osiris]

Well, maybe those like me who cannot afford srs at this time would be considered special ops.

Special ops. Has kind of a military feel to it.

[V M]

I'm working with Victoria's Secret to get it printed on my panties 

[cindybc]

I never said anyone was less woman than any other or man, We are whom we believe we are, I was only trying to point out the difference between non-op and pre-op and post-op that's it period.

What one does with their lives and how far they want to go down the transition trail that is their prerogative and their business and not mine. They are not any less or more then the next TS/TG just that some of us want to go all the way as completely as we can while some are happy to stay at one point.

Me on the other hand preferably desired to be left with the least ear maks as possible to remind me of who I was before, no better no worst the next person here on this board or out there in society.

I just had an insatiable need to be who I believe myself to be. So now if I still needed the surgery I would want the honor of having the bed between Heatherrose and Janet, or just let me know when, and I will be there and set myself in a chair between the both of you and hold your hands, with two vases of flowers at my feet with both your name cards on them.

Cindy   

[mina.magpie]

Just FWIW, I think making these very fine distinctions on why one isn't getting surgery really doesn't help much. Be it for health reasons or because we don't trust the surgery or because we'll never be able to afford it (and there are people in that position, whatever one's personal beliefs about "hard work and determination"), we all deal with the same sense of loss and having to adjust to it and coping with dating and relationship issues and lingering dysphoria and dressing-room issues and all that stuff. I think it's a minority of non-ops who are truly comfortable being in-between, not that there's anything wrong with that, and using that as a criteria for non-op is dubious. If somebody came up with a way to safely create functional genitalia I'd be signed up in a heartbeat, in the same way that Janet would be on the phone to a surgeon the moment she won the lotto, and then yeah, we'd be pre-op. But we're not there now. We share the same stage in our lives at this point in time, at least as far as transition goes, and I honestly don't see how intent makes a difference to the practical circumstances and personal impacts that stage entails.

Mina.

[heatherrose]

...or just let me know when, and I will be there and set myself in a chair between the both of you and hold your hands,

The honor would be entirely mine, my beautiful sister,
and I will take you up on the offer.
Are you free, say like maybe, Nov. 8th 2048?

[cindybc]

Sure, why not? Have you not heard that old hippies never die, they only smell that way and I warshed me underarms last month.

Cindy

[Just Kate]

Just FWIW, I think making these very fine distinctions on why one isn't getting surgery really doesn't help much. Be it for health reasons or because we don't trust the surgery or because we'll never be able to afford it (and there are people in that position, whatever one's personal beliefs about "hard work and determination"), we all deal with the same sense of loss and having to adjust to it and coping with dating and relationship issues and lingering dysphoria and dressing-room issues and all that stuff. I think it's a minority of non-ops who are truly comfortable being in-between, not that there's anything wrong with that, and using that as a criteria for non-op is dubious. If somebody came up with a way to safely create functional genitalia I'd be signed up in a heartbeat, in the same way that Janet would be on the phone to a surgeon the moment she won the lotto, and then yeah, we'd be pre-op. But we're not there now. We share the same stage in our lives at this point in time, at least as far as transition goes, and I honestly don't see how intent makes a difference to the practical circumstances and personal impacts that stage entails.

Mina.

I think the distinction makes a difference to me. 

For most, GID is something they deal with by using hormones, surgery, etc.  They live as the other sex the best they can, and deal with stresses involving those choices.

For others, like me, we look for ways to deal with GID doing something other than hormones, surgery, etc.  We live as our birth sex or something resembling it the best we can, and deal with the stressed involving those choices.

The difference?

Nearly every single forum on the internet dealing with TS provides support to those who choose to deal with their GID the first way while there is next to no support for those who deal with their GID the second way.

I don't need a label to validate my identity, but I want people to know before they try to give me advice the fact that I'm not dealing with my GID the way most do and don't appreciate advice given along those paths.  I need different kind of support and not looked down upon for how I deal with my GID (not that anyone here has, but I've experienced that in the past).  The label is significant for others to know that surgery is not an option to me - it is not something I would get if conditions were right, something that I would get if I could afford it, it is not something that will ever be in my life.

All that said, I wouldn't prevent anyone from offering advice so long as they understand the choices we have made.

[heatherrose]

...old hippies never die, they only smell that way and I warshed me underarms last month.

Silly Girl!

[mina.magpie]

For most, GID is something they deal with by using hormones, surgery, etc.  They live as the other sex the best they can, and deal with stresses involving those choices.

For others, like me, we look for ways to deal with GID doing something other than hormones, surgery, etc.  We live as our birth sex or something resembling it the best we can, and deal with the stressed involving those choices.

As I've always understood it, non-ops are people who do transition, they just don't have SRS. People who don't transition at all face a different set of difficulties again, I agree, but I think there's a fair bit of overlap, especially if one's open about having GID.

Mina.

[SarahFaceDoom]

If you are in this forum, chances are you are a non-op transperson.   So, 1) why not, and 2) how do you cope?

1. Cost.  I live at my mom's and even then it's still tough.  I have a lot of debt from everything else trans-related that I had to pay for when I didn't really have the means(therapy, laser, new clothes, hormones, ect).  I'm also scared of surgeries in general, and don't really feel like the cost is worth the gain, for what is essentially just an inside out penis.  if i'm going to spend that much money, I feel like they should give me fully working plumbing, otherwise I don't differntiate between the SRS and Breast Augmentation, which is another surgery I don't plan on having.  with hormones I feel like I am me still, with all my flaws and warts.  But with the surgeries, I feel like I Would be getting them more out of insecurities than out of burning desires. 

Additionally I feel that the amount of research, funding, and work that has gone into MTF SRS is disproportionate with the amount that has gone into FTM.  There's a pretty big gap in cost there that I feel is completely unfair, and has in it's roots some of the same overarching problems from medicine we've had for years and years, which is that women's medicine has not been funded or researched on anything like an equal level.  Which I am not saying FTM are women, but I am saying that the disparities in cost and quality between the two surgeries offend me AS a woman.

I just feel at the end of the day, I should not have to turn my penis inside out just to be recognized by society as a woman.  The shape of my genetalia should be between me and whoever I'm having sex with.  It should not be something that society uses to judge my gender, or discriminate against me on.

2) I cope by just living my life.  I try not to think about it when I can, and remember that regardless of my genitals, I'm a crazy, sexy, cool lady that anyone would be lucky to know on any level.  I just try not to buy into society's lies about what is and isn't a woman, and live my life as me.

[heatherrose]

I don't need a label to validate my identity,

We are kin you and I.

[cindybc]

If I win the lotery, in all sincerity I would arange a date for surgery for both heatherrose and Janet. But anyway Interalia, I agree with you 100% with your post you have more detail in your presentation then I did in mine. But basicly we are singing in the same quire hun.

Susan's Wiki

"Non-op" is short for non-operative. When used as an adjective of a person, this term typically signifies that the person has no desire to undergo gender reassignment surgery

"Pre-op" is short for pre-operative. When used as an adjective of a person, this term typically signifies that the person has not undergone Gender reassignment surgery (GRS) and still has his or her congenital genitals mostly intact.

A few cases of ambiguity may arise with this term. For example, a male to female transsexual post castration may sometimes refer to themselves as mid-op to reflect the in media res nature of their medical history. The term almost exclusively refers to a transsexual or an operative transgenderist as these are the only communities that regularly undergo genital operations

"Post-op" is short for post-operative. When used as an adjective of a person, this term typically signifies that the person has already undergone gender reassignment surgery.

Cindy