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Androgynes as transexuals in denial...discussion

Started by Nicky, April 23, 2009, 03:16:46 PM

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Bombi

Just when I was getting comfortable with the A label and myself in the world, I read stuff like this and the doubts begin all over. I identified as a TS for a long time but then began to realize that although I wanted feminine characteristics I would probably never have SRS.

The androgyne nich seemed to fit. I could be as feminine as I felt like without crossing the point of no return. For me TS is a huge committment. I'm not sure I could follow it to the end and have doubts that I would be more comfortable in my skin. I'm still using HRT under a doc's supervision and I actually feel less confusion. When I went off it for a while I thought much more of wanting to be feminine.

It been a quest and a journey that will probably never end. My whole trip now is just to be as comfortable with what I am as possible. The trip has been very fluid with moments of certainty dotted with denial. I'm still ok with it and I think the A world is a place I can live and prosper. I still have the recurring thought of why this quest involves so much time and energy and why me?
Yes there is really bigender people
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Jaimey

I've had this thought before too.  Earlier this year I was even considering transition.  However, when I think about what I would look and sound like after transition (based on the men in my family), that's even more uncomfortable to me than having a female body.  If the degree of change could be controlled, then I'd be all for it.

So I think I am finally in tune with who I really am and that is a male identified androgyne.  I want to be androgynous, not masculine or feminine.  Granted, in a perfect world, I would like to have been an androgynous male-bodied person.  But I know how my current body works, all it's nuances and quirks, and I have gotten much more comfortable with it than I had been (it turns out that breasts are kind of interesting and fun, if you think about it :P).  So I'm definitely androgyne.

I just think there's more freedom in being androgyne than TS.  Sometimes I feel like there are still some restrictions that people want to place on TS people because they are still "binary" in a way...or something...
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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Mr. Fox

Constraining gender roles have always bothered me, but just because I don't like the roles assigned to a certain gender does not mean I am not of that gender.  They're just dumb social rules, and just because I transition doesn't mean I suddenly need to start following them; I refuse to trade one set of limitations for another.  I define gender by my body map and whether I think I'm male, female, or in between, rather than by whether I fit into arbitrary gender roles.  When I was first figuring this out, however, I paid too much attention to stereotypes and thought that I was androgyne as a result.  I soon dropped the assumptions and identified as male.  There was some validity in my inbetween stage that was not based on stereotypes, so I got rid of my gender marker (with a username like Mr. Fox, no one is going to "she" me; otherwise I would have kept it) and enjoy lurking here occassionally.
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Jaimey

It's not even just social roles though...there's something about being 'binary' that feels trapped to me.  ???  I don't know either.  I guess I just like the fluidity of being androgyne.

Jamey is drizzunk... :icon_drunk:
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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imaz

Indeed Jaimey, binary doesn't actually exist in reality however much people may wish it to.

Everyone is androgyne to a certain degree whether they admit or not. probably it is exactly This and the fear that it brings that is reponsible for society's promotion of the binary model.
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Ell

Quote from: Nicky on April 23, 2009, 03:16:46 PM
Then there are those like myself that feel their internal gender is neither male nor female.

This morning I was thinking about something me and my counsellor discussed that likely I have not fully discovered who I am.

As a result of this...I'm not solid in my core self

this is another of your rather heady brews.

i feel much the same way about my own core self, that it is neither male nor female. nor does it give a rat's a** about how it should be addressed.

however, living through one's core personality is not an easy thing to do. just finding it is fraught with all the dangers of losing oneself to religion.

and, even if you can do it, you still have to present "some" kind of image to the world -- and to your core self -- which your core self will recognize with approval.

-ell
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imaz

From an academic psychological perspective that is certainly true although in reality things can be more fluid... maybe?
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Shana A

Quote from: ell on April 25, 2009, 06:28:36 PM
however, living through one's core personality is not an easy thing to do. just finding it is fraught with all the dangers of losing oneself to religion.

and, even if you can do it, you still have to present "some" kind of image to the world -- and to your core self -- which your core self will recognize with approval.

That's the truth Ell!

Z
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Jade H

Quote from: Kinkly on April 24, 2009, 10:45:34 AM

I don't won't to change the rule book I follow. I want to throw them both out and just be me


That's such a beautiful sentiment, but putting it into practice...?

I feel that I'm still finding "me"... without the rulebook!? It's like a dark labyrinth, no map and no guide... Androgyne in denial? Dunno... Don't really care right now... I may get lost in the dark... or get sick-and-tired of it...

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tekla

From an academic psychological perspective...
... pretty much all things are possible.  Its only when you move to the clinical level that it changes.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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RebeccaFog


being clinically insane is worse than being casually insane


:laugh:
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imaz

Quote from: Rebis on May 03, 2009, 06:22:58 PM
being clinically insane is worse than being casually insane


:laugh:

That really did make me laugh out loud! ;D
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RebeccaFog

Quote from: imaz on May 03, 2009, 06:43:43 PM
That really did make me laugh out loud! ;D

I'm afraid that only the clinically insane have the nerve to laugh out loud.  Please see a doctor immediately!
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Jaimey

If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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RebeccaFog


CaddyShack.


(sorry. wrong thread)

I think you both should be taking all this more seriously.
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imaz

Quote from: Rebis on May 03, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
I'm afraid that only the clinically insane have the nerve to laugh out loud.  Please see a doctor immediately!

Minor problem there my friend... I have DSM-IV-TR sitting right here on my desk... ;D ;D
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Kaelin

Regarding the initial post, to not conform to whatever rules society has for gender (and likely showing some elements of each role gender role) is to be androgynous.  The adjective "androgynous" can be applied to whichever gender you happen to be (female, male; it is probably a redundant addition if you are androgyne, unicorn...).  If you are ambivalent when it comes to your body (in terms of primary or secondary sex characteristics), that seems to point to being androgyne.  It's worth noting that no study has proven (or even can prove) that you are supposed to feel precisely like exactly one gender (even after disregarding the constraints of gender roles); it seems to arise more than people are ostensibly born with one set of unambiguous set of sex organs (which ignores intersexuals), or because their societal norms, religion, or other personal beliefs say so.

Just as someone theoretically could choose to identify as androgyne instead of "switching" for reasons of convenience, one could also do the opposite; the latter can arise for people with a black-white view of the world (you are one or the other) or would rather just pick a gender so people don't ask follow-up questions nearly all the time ("what's an androgyne?" -- Laurry identifies with this idea).

Regarding whether you don't fit as a man or fit as a woman (or at least your perceptions of them), you may have to broaden your idea of who a woman is (and who a man is), and your potential identity as one should this greater flexibility of feeling and expression.  You can also find yourself to be an androgyne, and that's great, too.
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Jaimey

Quote from: Rebis on May 03, 2009, 06:49:11 PM
CaddyShack.


(sorry. wrong thread)

I think you both should be taking all this more seriously.

*insert funny comment here*  I was trying, but I got nothing. :P
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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Noel

I think androgyny is a great thing.  But for me it's not wanting to be both or neither.  I think an HIR is like being everything and nothing at the same time.  But for me it's being able to be a boy one day or being a girl the next.  My androgyny is also mix and matching.  All boy but my make-up is done.  Or all girl but I'm wearing boxers, beater and my work boots.  I like the gender bending and to me, is that what my androgyny can be defined as?  Or does it have to be like an HIR?  I do not think though that I am and transexual in denial.  And though I have thought about it I like this middle ground.  But are there rules to being in the middle ground?  Like not andro enough or too andro?
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