Transsexuals Are Just Gay

[Melissa]

Doh!  I typed my response wrong.  I meant to say "weren't" instead of "were".  Yeah, I remember long before I accepted that I was TS, having this weird urge to kiss a guy from time to time.  I didn't know what was wrong with me.

Melissa

[Bob]

But NOW you can Melissa ! thats the whole point ! you gott'a tear down those berriors that you built up as your other self.... and get rid of them because they no longer fit the siduation...  You are all Female now and its OK....  where before it was weird... Now its Weird Not to ....   you have changed... and so must your thinking too !

....
Bob........

[Julie Marie]

Marco, it's so much easier to stick your head in the sand than face reality and get educated.  Why change a life of ignorance, prejudice and intolerance just for you?  C'mon, get real man!  They like their world of ignorance!  They fear change.  They fear knowing the truth.  My god, what would happen if they actually took the time to get educated?  They might find that all those years of prejudice and intolerance were a waste and that they were dead wrong!  Their ego can't handle that.

This is one of the things we just have to deal with.  We are the tolerant ones.  We are the educated ones.  We are the strong ones.  It's our responsibility to stand in the face of ignorance and intolerance and not waiver.  And each time we do that someone gains a little knowledge, someone eases their prejudices, someone becomes a little more open minded. 

One day the TGs of the world will look back on the road we paved for them and thank us for doing what we did to make their world a better place to live just as we do today when we look back at the pioneers who went before us.  And that makes what we do pretty important.

[Mario]

Julie,
      Well said. Thaks

                  Marco

[Bob]

Indeed !
Very well stated Julie... you said in 2 paragraphs what I couldn't say in a chapter or two !
and you did it without cussing or anything like that ! I am Amazed !  Yu are a very good teacher Julie ! <grin>

the most important thing is that they DON'T want to know... because they Like their Predijustes... but slowly , over time they will learn to be more open minded... Life in general will teach them that !
... Well done Julie


...
Bob.....

[Shana A]

I know plenty of gay men, none of whom have any desire whatsoever to be women.

Some people in our society equate any deviation from a narrow view of gender roles to be "gay". And this frightens the hell out of them.

Many years before I became aware of myself as transgender, I came out as gay. At that time I had nothing else to relate as to why I wanted to wear a dress. By the time a few more years had passed, I'd come out as every letter in LGBT 

zythyra

[Shayna]

Of all the people I've come out to, only two - my daughters - haven't ask what my sexual preference is within five minutes. (Daughters never want to know anything about a parent's sexual activity so it's 100% lol.)

I simply tell them that if this was about being gay, I could save a lot of money and pain, and that gay would be easy compared to this.  This seems to work but I also follow it up with "sexual preference has nothing to do with gender identity as a "male" can be hetero-, gay, bi-, etc.

As for the name calling, I grew up being picked on. [It wasn't until my senior year of high school that I reached  89 lbs, after all.]  In those days, you could have told me a hundred times that it shouldn't hurt to be teased but it did.  In my forties, someone said to me: "There are no victims, only volunteers."  They told me no one can hurt you without your permission.  I don't know why, but it clicked instantly.

As I near my coming out at work, I know there will be a few individuals that will be merciless.  I now look back at the anguish I suffered during my childhood and the advice I received in my forties as very fortuitous.  I'm not Christian but the phrase "forgive them for they know not what they do" often comes to mind and brings a huge smile to my face ..... just before I turn and walk away!

Shayna

[cindianna_jones]

... transsexuals are just gay....

I'll proudly stand with a gay,
poor, down trodden, or disabled
They can call me one of "those".
I'll abide proudly with the scourge.
I'll be buffeted bythe worst;
of them and for them.
I'll extend my hand of love and charity
to everyone,
not measuring their want.

And when the curtain call is made,
I'll be the last to show.
I'll make sure that no one stands
in the dark alone
crying, hoping, or wanting.

Cindi

[umop ap!sdn]

"I" don't do men..coz I is a men...in body..and after 50 plus years,,I have seen all the disgusting things men do.
ya know what I mean?

I completely understand!

Reminds me of a joke I'm rather fond of that illustrates how men - gay or straight - are unlike women. (I hope it's okay to share here.) A young man is eating dinner with his parents, having recently come out to them as gay. The father asks how exactly things work between the son and his boyfriend. To which he replies, "you know all the things you want to do that Mom won't? That's what we do."

[Mario]

Veronica,
   If you are refering to the title of this post, it is not a phrase, and it is not always true. I started this post because of some stupid, ignorant people I have to deal with from time to time, thankfully from a distance. I just wanted to clarify that. What happens here in the threads sometimes is they get slightly off topic, and if you don't read the whole thing, one might be misinterpited. K?

                                              Marco

[sheila18]

Marco:

I agree with you 100% my handsome brother.   

All:

If I was to take offense (which I do not) at being called gay, queer, ->-bleeped-<-, blah blah  it would be  because i would certainly believe that being gay is offensive or wrong or both 

  Why would anyone think that there is something wrong with being gay,  would you tell that to a queer person at his/her face?

  I know that we get not much respect from the gay crowd in person unless is for political alliances and straight people bashing ...
  We know what is like to be ourselves as confusing as it sometimes seems.

Love no matter what life throws at you, sheila18

[taylor]

Shelia,

would you tell that to a queer person at his/her face?

I know plenty of people in the world that have no problem telling a person that is gay that they are wrong or that they are sinning and going to burn in hell etc.  So yea, there are those that will and do!


If I was to take offense (which I do not) at being called gay, queer, ->-bleeped-<-, blah blah  it would be  because i would certainly believe that being gay is offensive or wrong or both 

I know people that are TS that do feel it is wrong to be gay and do not want to be connected to the "gay" community at all.  Due to their religious beliefs or just their personal beliefs. There are conservative TS people that see things much like parts of mainstream society does and they make up part of our community even if some don't like it. I often find it interesting how the community seems to want to reject those that have conservative views from the TS community. They are more a part of the TS and IS community than someone that is just gay or bi.

I am and will forever be opposed to the whole merge of GBLTI. It is a political move that was for the greater good of the GBL and  causes much mis information to the general public to what T and I is about.  You bet people find it offensive being called something they are not. Is that not what we all dealt with that are truly TS or IS??  Have I and others not fought hard against being mis labled?  Why is it so politically wrong for those of us that are strait to not be associated with a group that we are simply....not associated with?

Now I would just love some moron to come along and call me gay! I would give them a educational lashing that would send them spinning for months! 

Yea Shelia  your right I do I find it offensive, but I have every right to, after all I did my time years ago being called something else I was not...a girl.  And I love girls, so I doubt that it is due to some bigoted way of thinking that I found being called a girl offensive back then as I find being called gay offensive today. Neither fit and I will reject it.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti gay. If someone gets that impression from what I have written here, then you are missing my point! 

Well this is just my three cents worth.  Please don't feel I am attacking what your saying, it is not my desire, I am just responding from a totally different view point. It is intended as a respectful response!

Peace,
Taylor

[Bob]

Well stated Taylor !
...
Bob,,,

[veronica06]

If I was to take offense (which I do not) at being called gay, queer, ->-bleeped-<-, blah blah  it would be  because i would certainly believe that being gay is offensive or wrong or both 
---------
from taylor text;
=============================================================================
what my personal issue is,..is that I do not want to be included in that pidgeon hole. I am straight. just because the majority of joe public feels if someone is changing over..they MUST BE gay...
sorry. not me.
no matter how you cut the cake..my dna will always be male..but I do not do male.
I just personally resent being referred to as that label.
if someone else feels he/she IS gay..goodie for them. I hope they have a wonderful life, and find much happiness.
just don't put ME in there, just because I may change over...
and the foot note is;
I may indeed do that castration/penectomy..thingie...
remove the male member and it's twins below..
but I seriously doubt I ever think about having,..a medical made looking female genitalia.
why?  because--------------in my mind here?  it would imply sex..and I have no desire to ever have sex the rest of my life.
I plan on..being alone the rest of my life. I find I like my own company better than having someone else around.
call me mean and obnoxious.  call me walked out on humanity..
may be correct.
accuse me of leaving behind all-the-wonderful-things of love and romance.
and I say------------BAH HUMBUG!

but hey?

it's my life, my game, my rules.

take care out there/.

[Laura823]

This quote from "Conundrum" by Jan Morris really turned on a light for me on this subject:
"Whatever the cause, there thousands of people, perhaps hundreds of thousands, suffering from the condition today.  It has recently been given the name 'transsexualism,' and in its classic form is as distinct from transvestism as it is from homosexuality.  Both ->-bleeped-<-s and homosexuals sometimes suppose they would be happier if they could change their sex, but they are generally mistaken.  The ->-bleeped-<- gains his gratification specifically from wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, and would sacrifice his pleasures by joining that sex; the homosexual, by definition, prefers to make love with others of his own sort, and would only alienate himself and them by changing.  Transsexualism is something different in kind.  It is not an act of sex at all. It is a passionate, lifelong, ineradicable conviction, and no true transsexual has been has ever been disabused of it."  p.8 

[taylor]

Veronica,

You have completely MIS quoted me! If you look you will find that the words you are assigning as mine, are in fact a quote I took from the post I was responding to.

Peace,
Taylor

[Kate]

I really can't fault the public for confusing gays with transsexuals. Consider U.K. town cheers male carnival queen for example.

[Melissa]

All:

If I was to take offense (which I do not) at being called gay, queer, ->-bleeped-<-, blah blah  it would be  because i would certainly believe that being gay is offensive or wrong or both 

  Why would anyone think that there is something wrong with being gay,  would you tell that to a queer person at his/her face?

Sheila, I assume this was mostly directed at me.  I will go into detail about how I arrived at those conclusions.

"Gay" is the term used to describe a person who is sexually interested in other people of the same gender.  The only way this would be true for a transsexual is if they were interested others of the gender they identified as.  For an MTF, this would mean the transsexual would only be interested in women and the word "just" would be unnecessary.  However, "gay" is typically used to specifically describe a male interested in other males.  This would imply an MTF is male and always will be, otherwise after transition they would be straight and wouldn't be "just gay", which is how I arrived at the first statement.

1. A transsexual is not really the gender they identify as and never will be

Secondly, transsexuals sexually identify as being attracted to all sorts of people.  Many of them start out as liking the opposite "physical" sex and therefore the idea of being "just gay" is completely makes no sense.  The only way it could even start to make sense is if a male was attracted to other males and is transitioning just so "he" can be with men without the social stigma that gay men face.  This would be a purely sexual reason for transition and that's how I arrived at my second statement.

2. Transition is done purely for the sexual motivation and benefit of being with a man.

The statement of this topic was actually said to me by somebody the minister of my church at the time.  She continued with saying I really wanted to be with men at the time and that I was only gay and that was the "real" reason I wanted to transition.  If I only wanted to be with men, why would I need to transition?  Why not just declare myself gay?  Many men do that.   
If my interest was in being with men, and I was a woman, I would be straight.  By saying I'm interested in only being with men and that I'm gay, that implies, I am male regardless of what transition does to me and the fact that it is for sexual movitivations is implied by the fact that I'm doing it to be with men.  Well, at the time, I had no interest in men.  Therefore, my sexual preference was not a motivating factor.

Being male or female all depends on how you define being "male" or "female".  There are a number of factors that go into this equation such as gender identity, chromosomes, hormones, anatomy, gonads, internal organs, etc.  A MTF transsexual after transition will be female in identity, hormonally and anatomically.  She will lack a uterus and ovaries (there are many other women who do as well) and she will always have the chromosomes, but if we take all factors into account, this person would be female.

Additionally, I have no problem with other people that identify with being a gay male.  In person, I have many friends who do so, which actually rivals the number of TS friends I have.  However, I do have a problem with being called a gay male.  Why?  Because it attacks the very foundation of my being.

If you have no problem being called a gay male who just likes to dress up in women's clothing (essentially a drag queen), then you're entitled to that opinion.  By the way, we are ALL entitled to our own opinions.

So this is the basis of my "faulty logic" and why I don't just say "anything" to feel smarter than others.  There were actually very well thought out reasons behind it.

Melissa

[sheila18]

kate:
honey, always on target  , love it  you're right it doesn't help.

hi everyone:
   In the last month google search engines directed me to Susans 3 times while seeking information on music and general news.  We are widely read, imagine that 

bob, taylor, veronica i did not feel attacked in any way.  If you'd had  read my posts overtime you'll know that i am not 'that delicate'. Thank you though for being cosiderate but don't worry not that you are but... The thread and pots are not about my feelings or my hurt inner child. 
  My post was not a response to anyone in particular but a comment on:

but this phrase ticks me off..a bit.

ok. being anal here..BUT
if anyone ever accuses ME of gay...will..WILL get an aluminum baseball bat upside their head.

I realize that the spirit of the writing of these words were  probably playful and humorous, however the question needed to be asked after i read subsequent posts that 'seemed' to lend these words more credibility.  i know is not a call for violence and hatred, am correct right?? i want to believe is just an offhand comment,

and i read how you felt and how you dislike being pigeon holed, i totally agree, i have been pigeon holed for my skin color, my accent, my choice of dress, my politiccs, religion, faith  blah blah you name it ...and i have been called all kinds of names and thrown eggs as i walk the streets, cops pulled me over bla blah  no baseball bat, no .357  like most of us, am not unique

so my question still stands;
ok you find it offensive but does it warrant a baseball bat to the head?

  this is not about sensibilities being hurt
  this is about participating in quietly condonning prejudice against ANYONE, IN THIS CASE GAYS AND IN THIS FORUM


the way 2 responses read to me at this moment is that there is a conviction  that there are times when descrimination has its good reasons, probably and i am certain that that is not how anyone here feels or is,  but it "kinda" appears that way from waaaay ovvver heeere ...    please talk to me 
...just a dialougue to find common ground.

melissa:
sweety, it had nothing to do with your posts,  i know you'll find this hard to believe. As a matter of facts i found that for me your posts really had little to do with the subject of my response.   Thanks for the lecture it was informative.
sheila18

[umop ap!sdn]

I don't see anything in the posts of Melissa's that were smited (smote?) that deserves smiting. Just my humble opinion for what it's worth.