Religously, I am very much alone.

[stacyB]

When you speak of religion, do you mean spiritually or being well versed in the particular strain of dogma you engage in?

Being spiritual does not require being religious and as such is more ethereal to the common man (or woman, not to be sexist here)...

I have always had a problem with the dogma... and I can almost guarantee you wont find any two people of the same religion who agree on the meaning of the dogma they practice.

Being spiritual also does not require faith... yet another intangible that many cling to for lack of being able to make sense of their existance and/or surroundings...

Maybe the answer is we are all very much alone... hence the reason so many turn to religion in the first place...

[V M]

Virginia will allow Cindy, Stacy, Jaimey, Shannon, Chris and a few other friends into the garden

[Annwyn]

Oh, I can. You know I can.
It's a matter of how much time I'm willing to devote to researching every branch of every whimsical belief in a supernatural entity - and debunking it into a control system.
The "I know you can't" comes from the fact that you know I couldn't be bothered investing that much time in such a worthless project.
But I have the ability.
Just not the will.

Point is moot, really.

The point is not friggin moot.  You made a statement, therefore it is your responsibility to back it up, Burden of Proof being on you.  If you can't provide it that then take it back.

If you can't follow the most basic rules of debate then don't bother opening your yapper.

And posting an article that was referring to Christianity as a reference for all religion, how lame is that?

Exceedingly lame.

I'm disgusted, I figured you could actually talk sensibly for all your strutting but you've left me without even the satisfaction of an intelligent conversation: just a web of disappointment.

[GinaDouglas]

If we all stuck to saying only things we could prove, it wouldn't be much of a discussion.

Even if you were right, and I'm not saying you are; it doesn't look good on you.

[Annwyn]

If we all stuck to saying only things we could prove, it wouldn't be much of a discussion.

Even if you were right, and I'm not saying you are; it doesn't look good on you.

I am correct.

By definition, religion is the acceptance of a set of beliefs.

Whether those beliefs influence day to day life is not implied.  Therefore to assert that claim in such a disparaging way merits at least a bit of proof whether it be hard or circumstantial.

So Vexing, I'm still waiting for you to back up that statement you made so eloquently or take it back.

[V M]

Somehow, I doubt that Aelita was looking for such volatile responses. Maybe such is better for PMs 

[Cindy]

Have to agree Virginia; A & V seem to be on a separate thread; and it's personal.

My feeling, and I don't have any religion, is that you need to discuss your belief(s). There appear to be a myriad of them in this community. I think you would find people who do have similar concepts.
But then again a new religion seems to be created every few minutes. And there is nothing wrong in that.

Cindy

[Vexing]

The point is not friggin moot.  You made a statement, therefore it is your responsibility to back it up, Burden of Proof being on you.  If you can't provide it that then take it back.

If you can't follow the most basic rules of debate then don't bother opening your yapper.

And posting an article that was referring to Christianity as a reference for all religion, how lame is that?

Exceedingly lame.

I'm disgusted, I figured you could actually talk sensibly for all your strutting but you've left me without even the satisfaction of an intelligent conversation: just a web of disappointment.

If I spend one second on each of the 3 million religions you profess, that's 34 DAYS solid I'd have to spend on proving my point.
That's 816 hours.
Now, if I were to be a good researcher and spend at least an hour researching each religion, that would be 5,208 days.
Which is 14 YEARS.

That's just quaintly idiotic.
Post Merge: May 16, 2009, 04:39:22 AM

So Vexing, I'm still waiting for you to back up that statement you made so eloquently or take it back.

You'll be waiting a long time, given the parameters you outlined.

[Annwyn]

And finally: she's gone.

Time for happy Annwyn to come out again^_^

[Ephilei]

I rarely post on this forum because the discussions never interest me. Then, finally a discussion did interest me, but it's devolved into a boring "making fun of theism" / "debate over New Atheism."

In the naive hope of being productive again - how do other trans people in religious minorities cope?

[Miniar]

Religious minorities in Iceland don't suffer any significant negative attention. So it doesn't add to my issues.

[Constance]

In the naive hope of being productive again - how do other trans people in religious minorities cope?

I found the Unitarians by accident. There's at least 1 MtF at the one I go to. Every Sunday, they start by saying anyone is welcome there. They list various traits that some religious folks find offensive, including the phrase "gender identity." So, I'm lucky; I've got this UU church here in town (an hour's walk, or a 20-minute bike ride) that is very warm and welcoming.

[stacyB]

It's really been wearing on me lately, that I really seem alone when it comes to religion.

The worst thing that can happen to one's belief system is to have those beliefs challenged. Im not talking about others who challenge you... Im talking about the realization that everything you thought, believed and held dear contradicts the very things that you know and are. My first realization of feeling alone was when I saw those who blindy followed ideas and rituals without feeling or passion or thought. I spoke earlier of spirituallity and faith, but that seems to either be lost or held irrelevant by those that profess being religious. Like its some kind of flower child/new age/blah kind of notion.

I can't conceive of the notion of restless spirits or wronged past lives any more than some heavenly form of bookeeping that records if youve kept lent or hallal or kosher or {fill in the blank}. We end up having to pick and choose from column A and B like a chinese menu, and that strikes me as flawed. The very act of questioning these things brings out reactions in people that range from extreme passion to the downright absurd! Even those that choose not to believe themselves become so angry at the "true believers" that they create their own "anti-religion" religion.

Moreover, I cant tell you how many times ive heard the expression on these forums that "god doesnt make mistakes" and the enormous amount of bandwidth chewed up debating back and forth, sometimes denegrading into useless backbiting that does little to help those who seek answers. If one truly believes in omnipotent beings, do we even have the capacity to define "mistake" or argue if this being or beings are capable of such acts? And if these beings are nothing more than some fanciful figment of our psyche, what the hell are we arguing about?

Which brings me back to the original point... when your spiritual/belief/faith/whathaveyou notion doesnt fit into some nice little box the feeling of lonliness can be overwhelming. Because when you get right down to it, every religion becomes a definition of who we are and what role we play, both as individuals and as a group, fit into the big picture. Once we realize we are nothing but a blip in the vast gianormous cosmos, its hard not to feel alone...

Aye, but theres the rub. Its not all bleak or pointless... the butterfly effect. Even on such a massive scale, everyone, no matter how different or insignificant affects everyone and everything else. Even the pure science buffs cant ignore that... quantum physics has more than proven that to be the case...

Yet, in spite of everything I know and believe, I still feel so damned alone... <sigh>

[Ephilei]

Which brings me back to the original point... when your spiritual/belief/faith/whathaveyou notion doesnt fit into some nice little box the feeling of lonliness can be overwhelming. Because when you get right down to it, every religion becomes a definition of who we are and what role we play, both as individuals and as a group, fit into the big picture. Once we realize we are nothing but a blip in the vast gianormous cosmos, its hard not to feel alone...

Well put. It would make me glad to hear such true words if the message weren't so damning.

Besides that, you can define a religion as "a community of people who share common beliefs." When you lose one of those common beliefs, you lose a little kinship with that community. When you lose a belief that's a tenet, you've lost a whole community.

For instance, a tenet of Easter Orthodoxy is that all the teachings of the Church Fathers have complete authority. I believe in the majority of Orthodoxy, but I don't believe that and that prevents me from ever being Orthodox of part of their community. I could stay with them for 50 years, go to every service, form intimate friendships, share infinte laughs and experiences but I'll never be one of them. When I pray with them, "protect the Orthodox Church," I won't be including myself. All because I try my darndest to seek the truth.

Man that sucks.

If I were conformist, I wouldn't be in this mess.

[Feever]

There are only two ways I can think of for a male to truly be transformed into a female (I don't include science or technology that one day might work, on the grounds that it doesn't exist yet) and that would be a miracle or magic (the existence of which has not been proven one way or the other) which I have to believe in as a consequence of believing in God.

I though I was the only one!  Oh how I have prayed for a magical transformation, or for aliens to scoop me up and make me a woman.

I believe God had a purpose for making me the way that I am.  I havent figured out what that purpose might be, but I know in my heart, and in my soul it wasnt a mistake.  If I could make it all go away I know that I wouldnt.  As much as it pains me, I like the need to be feminine.  I am glad that God gave me the ability to feel this way.  I would be just another miserable man without it, and thats not something I want to be.

[Suzy]

Interestingly, we still have not heard back from Aelita Lynn since she started this thread.  I am still wondering why she feels alone and where she is spiritually. 

If I were conformist, I wouldn't be in this mess.

That is why I like being Reformed.  We believe that we always have to be reforming in order to be faithful.

Kristi

[Just Kate]

As long as you are in the company of those who live the principles of your religion, you are not really alone.  My wife is not the same religion I am (Mormon), but she values the same things I do as we both pursue righteous living and action.

[Mina_Frostfall]

Sorry I haven't said anything in a while, I got sick and really didn't feel like talking. Also, I was a bit put off by the hijack earlier. I'm a bit better now, so I think I'm ready to talk again.

Well, I'm alone because my religious views views are offensive to a lot of people. I'm not a satanist, but if people know my beliefs they are liable to call me that. Oftentimes even people who aren't very religious think my views are stupid. I have to go into a long, drawn-out explanation before they'll change their mind that it's not.

In the aspects that are offensive, there are groups with similar ideas. But if you put everything together, then there is no group that I can fit into. I'm always at odds with parts of any given tradition.

[Witch of Hope]

A religion should help, not condemn or oppressed people. But the patrarchal religions (one God, mostly male) are in this way. This is sad.

[Ephilei]

That is why I like being Reformed.  We believe that we always have to be reforming in order to be faithful.

Touche.

It's not that I want to be conformist, I just occaisonally day dream over it.
Post Merge: May 17, 2009, 08:03:58 PM

That is why I like being Reformed.  We believe that we always have to be reforming in order to be faithful.

Touche.

It's not that I want to be conformist, I just occaisonally day dream over it.