Trans-sexuality and the goddess

[aisha]

GODDESS!
Post Merge: July 30, 2010, 10:34:27 PM
The Goddess is ready to shower Her love and affection on any who care to turn their gaze toward Her luminous heart.

[Protasekretis]

How, however, does it look to my religion which is a goddess's religion? Are transsexual people also condemned here? How was it in ancient times? And how does the goddess see tg people?
What do you mean?
I know the answer, but I would hear with pleasure your opinion in addition.

I once went to neo-hindu cult, because they worshipped Goddess and The Feminine Principle, shakti. But found out that this was just talk, and remained a theory.

In reality, yoginis admired the dominating alpha males, and the leaders were masculine type men, or very rarely, masculine type women - right-sided women, as it was called. It was such a dissappointment to see.

A lot of talk, how left-side is the side of mother, of goddess, how left-sided people should rule, how laksmi is such sweet and how the ego should be put aside... Talk, talk.. but no substance in it.

I think it's just not easy, to get close to Goddess.

A more deeper change is required, than just a change of religion/group. Just talking about femininity is not enough. There should be genuine respect towards femininity, in whatever form she chooses to manifest.

I guess it is the same as with Chritianity. In bible is said that Jesus preferred Mary to Martha, but always when I have seen christians reading that, they explain that "it really means that Martha is so precious, valuable".. "Jesus wished to praise Martha.." etc... To my disappointment this attitude was in yoga too.

[Raven]

Idk i have read that there somes transgendered gods and goddesses as well as transgendered people were once seen as mytics and were highly respected for the ablility to align with both the god and goddess. I don't remember much but if you want you check out Goth Craft by Raven Digitalis he explains it better than I can heh

[Raven]

Know it's kinda late for this but here's a little something bout it here and I quote from Goth Craft:"Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered, and intersexed people have been, throughout history, quite respected on the magickal path. They carry asociations of both genders and thus are recognized as having the unique ability to channel the polarities of male and female, the powers of the God and Goddess. People of alternative sexual orientation were seen as mystics, capable of harnessing immense strength and channeling Spirit directly. Because Spirit is androgynous, queers were aligned directly with the sacred source. Spirit is both masculine and feminine, but at the same time is neither. Deiities are personifications of the Great All, and have been given appropriate character traits in each pantheon to encompass all aspects of reality, including homosexuality and the like." I hope this helps.

[cynthialee]

We are natural spiritual beings. I have noticed a certain quality of character in the trans population that is of the spirit that most of the rest of the world simply do not. It doesnt seem to matter if the person is a Church Decon or a Wiccan Priestess or just someone who believes deeply those of us who are spiritual are unique and I can sense that unique quality.
The ancient cultures saw this and respected us.
Too bad we are not respected like the Phrygian preistess's were. Culture has gone backwards when it comes to us instead of forward when you look at our history.

[Illuminess]

"The symbol of Goddess gives us permission. She teaches us to embrace the holiness of every natural, ordinary, sensual dying moment. Patriarchy may try to negate body and flee earth with its constant heartbeat of death, but Goddess forces us back to embrace them, to take our human life in our arms and clasp it for the divine life it is - the nice, sanitary, harmonious moment as well as the painful, dark, splintered ones.

If such a consciousness truly is set loose in the world, nothing will be the same. It will free us to be in a sacred body, on a sacred planet, in sacred communion with all of it. It will infect the universe with holiness. We will discover the Divine deep within the earth and the cells of our bodies, and we will lover her there with all our hearts and all our souls and all our minds."

― Sue Monk Kidd, The Dance of the Dissident Daughter: A Woman's Journey from Christian Tradition to the Sacred Feminine

[riotgrrrl]

As a Dianic Witch it is so frustrating to see misandry disguised as spirituality and people who believe in energies dismiss my entire lived experience.  I believe we have souls and the body is merely a vessel to hold them. Masculine and Feminine energies are part of someones spirit, and the more dominant energy shapes your identity. For me a transsexual woman I have a woman spirit in a male body. I think genderqueer people have an about equal amount of both that's why they identify as none or either. For people who believe in the manipulation of energy into creating change aka Magick I think this is a very easy concept to understand. The Goddess is not human she is the Divine Creatrix of the Universe. She is energy that makes up the entire universe. There are biological females who do not menstruate and can not get pregnant. There are also women born with ambiguous genitalia and extra sets of chromosomes. Should they not be allowed to worship the Goddess among their sisters too because they do not know what it is like to experience the women's mysteries completely?  Why is it ok to exclude someone because of their biology?  For me I don't understand how biology really matters when we are worshiping the Goddess who is energy and not Human Female Biology. I personally feel more connected to crone energy. I can not give birth as a woman would. My womb is barren. Honoring that is important to me. Do I dare enter a Dianic circle where I wouldn't be welcome. No, because I respect women's spaces and alot of what Dianic authors say about that issue makes sense to me. This is why I remain solitary for all these years. I hope to one day start my own coven, and wish the CAYA coven had a Southern California branch. I have found a circle open to all self identified women but it is at the new moon. The coven is called the Inner temple and located in Santa Monica. You can find information about their New Moon Circle on their website. It is invitation only. Since I'm in the Inland Empire I don't exactly have choices. At the new moon I worship a particular Goddess only unlike on a Full Moon when I'm more flexible. I wish they offered a women only Full Moon ritual but they don't.  I also don't feel comfortable being in a Wiccan coven because they honor the God. I identify as a  Dianic Witch and not a Wiccan for that and other reasons. I hope one day I will find a coven that welcomes me. Blessed Be ) O (

[Illuminess]

There's definitely a difference, though, between Male/Female equilibrium in spirit and the male-dominated direction that religion has taken since the dawn of literacy. The veneration of the Goddess, today, is to bring her energy back into the world for the very purpose of attaining that equilibrium.

[Illuminess]

Any fellow venerators of the Goddess might be interested in learning about Ophidian Thelema, a sub-sect of the initial religion of Thelema brought to the world by Aleister Crowley and his wife Rose Edith Kelley in 1904.

Thelema (as well as the traditions of The Order Of The Golden Dawn) served as inspiration when Gerald Gardner was forming the basis of what would eventually be called Wicca. The Thelemic motto — "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law; love under Will" — would be shorted and simplified into the Wiccan Rede, "An ye harm none, do what ye will". They each have their own specific meaning, but ultimately only one, and that is to do your work without interfering in anyone else's life.

Ophidian Thelema is unique in that it focuses more intensely on the Goddess/Feminine energy and symbolism while traditional Thelema simply gives importance to all things equally; no special attention other than what is necessary.

"We are called Ophidian Thelemites because we acknowledge the importance of the Book of the Law as a new proclamation of this our Ancient Tradition of the Serpent, the Spirit. We are the followers of the Serpent, or the Spirit, within Thelema. Ophidian Thelemites follow the Seven Guiding Principles as delivered by Babalon, the current incarnation of the Great Liberating Mother throughout time...

Ophidian Thelemites are devotees of the Goddess Babalon. Because of this, Ophidian Thelemites follow the Balanced Ecstatic Path of the Liberation of the Spirit, of the Serpent, from the bonds of the Persona. As Babalon Herself says. "My Vocation is the Serpent"...

...there is no one image of the female. It is changing with every day of the Moon. The Sun is always the Sun. The female is different every day...

Thus, because of the Will of the Spirit we are Thelemites. And because we are Devotees of Babalon, and of the Spirit itself, and Her Mother, and of the Female, and of the Lineage - because of all of this and more - we are Ophidian."

http://www.templeofbabalon.com

[Wynternight]

Sadly a lot of the hardcore Dianic Wiccans of the Z. Budapest/Starhawk school of thought despise transwomen and have accused us as trying to "infiltrate" sacred space. It really is trans-bigotry, misandry, and hatred all rolled up into a nasty ball of wax.

[Illuminess]

Sadly a lot of the hardcore Dianic Wiccans of the Z. Budapest/Starhawk school of thought despise transwomen and have accused us as trying to "infiltrate" sacred space. It really is trans-bigotry, misandry, and hatred all rolled up into a nasty ball of wax.

I just don't understand the trans misogyny. Your physical sex is not what emanates the spirit. Masculine or Feminine energy is beyond the tangible world. All that should matter is which one you choose to embrace and radiate into your work and your daily life. That's why I love Thelema, because you can be a cis man and choose to represent Nuit, or a cis woman and choose to represent Hadit. Anyone who considers themselves spiritual (and/or pagan) should have no concern at all with the vessel if what it carries, evokes and projects is the appropriate force.

But then... I have a friend who is an active member of OTO in Canada, is lesbian and the most I can say is that she is trans-friendly, to your face, but she subscribes to Radical Feminist views. I haven't seen her actually write anything of her own expressing that, but she's posted a few things on Tumblr that are blatantly bigoted. One of them was a photo of a women's restroom sign with part of the 'W' blacked out so it looks like "NOMEN", basically implying that we are all just male-identified weirdos looking to "invade women's spaces". I also saw another re-blogged statement saying something like 'there's no such thing as men with female brains'. It makes me sad, because she is a sweet person, and has never criticised me for transitioning, and yet she posts this stuff. I used to love talking with her, but now I feel like I've been stabbed slowly in the back. If you want to peruse her page her nickname is Lucifelle.

[Wynternight]

I just don't understand the trans misogyny. Your physical sex is not what emanates the spirit. Masculine or Feminine energy is beyond the tangible world. All that should matter is which one you choose to embrace and radiate into your work and your daily life. That's why I love Thelema, because you can be a cis man and choose to represent Nuit, or a cis woman and choose to represent Hadit. Anyone who considers themselves spiritual (and/or pagan) should have no concern at all with the vessel if what it carries, evokes and projects is the appropriate force.

But then... I have a friend who is an active member of OTO in Canada, is lesbian and the most I can say is that she is trans-friendly, to your face, but she subscribes to Radical Feminist views. I haven't seen her actually write anything of her own expressing that, but she's posted a few things on Tumblr that are blatantly bigoted. One of them was a photo of a women's restroom sign with part of the 'W' blacked out so it looks like "NOMEN", basically implying that we are all just male-identified weirdos looking to "invade women's spaces". I also saw another re-blogged statement saying something like 'there's no such thing as men with female brains'. It makes me sad, because she is a sweet person, and has never criticised me for transitioning, and yet she posts this stuff. I used to love talking with her, but now I feel like I've been stabbed slowly in the back. If you want to peruse her page her nickname is Lucifelle.

I've read enough venom from the TERF crowd. I'm Dianic at heart and as long as the Goddess accepts me as is the TERFS can go perform anatomically impossible acts of self love.

[Illuminess]

I wish they'd understand that true Feminism is not about replacing one with the other, but bringing them into balance. There cannot be wholeness in spirit and in mind if the Sacred Masculine and Sacred Feminine are not united in Holy Androgyny. There is no initiation without union. 1+1=0.

[Wynternight]

I wish they'd understand that true Feminism is not about replacing one with the other, but bringing them into balance. There cannot be wholeness in spirit and in mind if the Sacred Masculine and Sacred Feminine are not united in Holy Androgyny. There is no initiation without union. 1+1=0.

Those kinds of people wouldn't know true spiritual feminism if it came and bit them in the arse. For them it's all about scorn and vitriol.

[Illuminess]

"Isis am I, and from my life are fed all showers and suns, all moons that wax and wane, all stars and streams, the living and the dead, the mystery of pleasure and of pain. I am the Mother. I the speaking sea. I am the Earth in its fertility. Life, death, love, hatred, light, darkness, return to me, to me. Isis am I, and to my beauty draw. All glories of the Universe bow down, the blossom and the mountain and the dawn. Fruits blush and women are creations crowned."

— Aleister Crowley, "Isis Am I"
from Tannhaüser and as it appears in Rite of Venus

[riotgrrrl]

"Isis am I, and from my life are fed all showers and suns, all moons that wax and wane, all stars and streams, the living and the dead, the mystery of pleasure and of pain. I am the Mother. I the speaking sea. I am the Earth in its fertility. Life, death, love, hatred, light, darkness, return to me, to me. Isis am I, and to my beauty draw. All glories of the Universe bow down, the blossom and the mountain and the dawn. Fruits blush and women are creations crowned."

— Aleister Crowley, "Isis Am I"
from Tannhaüser and as it appears in Rite of Venus

What a beautiful statement I had no idea Crowley spoke of the Goddess I think of him as being very Dark Arts and Demonic orientated Margaret Murray had a huge influence on Gardner regarding bringing the Goddess into the practice of Wicca. He was an interesting character to say the least, and from what I read was very patriarchal and that speaks of the times in which he lived. That contributes to the fact that I don't identify as Wiccan but as a Witch.  This has been a great thread with such meaningful discussion. I wish that it could be presented on a more open platform to reach a wider audience of the pagan community.  I love what one woman said about the Goddess accepting her regardless of what other Dianics believe. It is however so frustrating to remain a solitary. I am thinking of starting my own coven someday. Or even moving where there is one. I crave community with other women. Group ritual is so very powerful and transforming.  That is how I see it. I'm not going to choose another path because of political idealogy. This is the path that has chosen me.  I think the tides will change they already are. Blessed Be ☽O☾

[Wynternight]

 
What a beautiful statement I had no idea Crowley spoke of the Goddess I think of him as being very Dark Arts and Demonic orientated Margaret Murray had a huge influence on Gardner regarding bringing the Goddess into the practice of Wicca. He was an interesting character to say the least, and from what I read was very patriarchal and that speaks of the times in which he lived. That contributes to the fact that I don't identify as Wiccan but as a Witch.  This has been a great thread with such meaningful discussion. I wish that it could be presented on a more open platform to reach a wider audience of the pagan community.  I love what one woman said about the Goddess accepting her regardless of what other Dianics believe. It is however so frustrating to remain a solitary. I am thinking of starting my own coven someday. Or even moving where there is one. I crave community with other women. Group ritual is so very powerful and transforming.  That is how I see it. I'm not going to choose another path because of political idealogy. This is the path that has chosen me.  I think the tides will change they already are. Blessed Be ☽O☾

Crowley is a fantastically misunderstood figure. He was really the first shockrocker of the era - turning Victorian sensibilities on their ear and having a grande time doing it. Some of his exploits were covers for his work for British Intelligence during the War and others the work of a supremely intelligent man bored with the era he lived in and wanting to stir things up. He rejected dogmatic thinking and wanted a new era of spiritual enlightenment.

This is an interesting read:

http://ac2012.com/2012/08/05/aleister-crowley-myths-actually-true/

[Illuminess]

from what I read was very patriarchal and that speaks of the times in which he lived.

[riotgrrrl]

I was talking about Gardner not Crowley when I said "from what I read was very patriarchal and that speaks of the times in which he lived."  For example here some tidbits from The Old Laws or the Ardanes by Gerald Gardner, attributed to the New Forest Coven, 1957 "For the Gods love the Wica, as a man loveth a woman by mastering her."  "For in this way only may man have communion with the Gods, for the Gods cannot help man without the help of men. " 
"But the Priestess should ever mind that all power comes from him. It is only lent when it is used wisely and justly. And the greatest virtue of a High Priestess is that she recognises that youth is necessary to the representative of the Goddess, so that she will retire gracefully in favour of a younger woman."   

Gardner clearly intended for their to be a heavy influence on the God and Male clergy having positions of power with women subservient. To me this is a clear example of patriarchal theology and mirrors Catholicism. There is no need to one up me with a fancy meme when I clearly stated that I liked what Crowley had to say about the Goddess.  Reading that changed my perception of him I never bothered to read what he says. They are still both very off putting for me and their works just aren't something I will ever be interested in. 

[riotgrrrl]

 
I was talking about Gardner not Crowley when I said "from what I read was very patriarchal and that speaks of the times in which he lived." You left the name Gardner out of your quote. I'm assuming you overlooked his name in my sentence. To elaborate on Gardner here are some tidbits from The Old Laws or the Ardanes by Gerald Gardner, attributed to the New Forest Coven, 1957 "For the Gods love the Wica, as a man loveth a woman by mastering her."  "For in this way only may man have communion with the Gods, for the Gods cannot help man without the help of men. " 
"But the Priestess should ever mind that all power comes from him. It is only lent when it is used wisely and justly. And the greatest virtue of a High Priestess is that she recognises that youth is necessary to the representative of the Goddess, so that she will retire gracefully in favour of a younger woman."   

Gardner clearly intended for their to be a heavy influence on the God and Male clergy having positions of power with Goddess and women subservient. To me this is a clear example of patriarchal theology and mirrors Catholicism. There is no need to one up me with a fancy meme when I clearly stated that I liked what Crowley had to say about the Goddess.  Reading that changed my perception of him I never bothered to read what he says. They are still both very off putting for me and their works just aren't something I will ever be interested in.