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The Telltale Heart, Or A Life Of Living Hell

Started by NicholeW., May 22, 2009, 01:55:46 AM

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NicholeW.

I would imagine that many if not most Transsexuals who successfully transitioned and integrated themselves into society do not want to compromise what they have achieved after what has been a life of living hell ... -- Ladyrider



I have heard about this living hell for years. I have no doubt that things can be bad, at least relatively speaking.

Do we care to enumerate our numerous days on the street smoking crack and turning tricks, our muscular dystrophy, our living on $35/year, the ravages beriberi and rickets visited on our lives, the schizophrenia onset when we were 22 and about to graduate from Harvard or Dakota State at the head of our class?

Maybe we could add-in a story about repeated rapes, beatings by police or other citizens? How 'bout the time we had breast cancer, cervical cancer, were terminated from our jobs or were paid less than the going rate because of our sex, gender-identity, color, or religion?

Or the time we were interned in a refugee camp while Israeli soldiers cut off our water and electricity and kept us inside the perimeter for days on end as a prisoner, although we'd never been tried or convicted for anything at all except that our family had been born where they were?   

Maybe a frisson of death-squads taking us away and murdering us in the sunset jungles of Guatemala or on the swaying pampas of Argentina? Or the genocide we suffered in Bosnia or Rwanda?

Should I go on? Naw, why do that?

I know a lot of us, perhaps all, go through some rather physically and psychologically harrowing experiences. Some of us decide, or nearly decide, but most of us seem to say we just "would have decided" to commit suicide out of frustration and despair.

Psychological problems are still problems. As many of us also discover the "living hell" our psyches experience are usually pretty well ameliorated by enough money earned, saved, inherited, gifted or paid to a credit card company to plunk down for surgeries, therapy, medications.

Of course not everyone can afford that.

Fact is, and all we generally have to do is look at any webz BB we happen to use a lot and see, that the "phenomenon" of transsexing is a mostly white, middle to upper middle to upper class, professional, reasonably educated, European-heritage phenomenon. We're the ones who generally afford it. We're the ones whose governments often pick up the tab for it.

The ones who don't: non-ops, too-poor-to-ever-ops, too-sick-to-risk-it-ops, too-lacking-in-knowledge-to-ever-realize-they-might-ops or just plain I-don't-want-to-risk-it-ops or never-thought-about-it-but-have-some-gender-dissonance-ops are usually the ones who we create a second-tier in our minds for.

They either don't exist or we don't want to agree that they are just as worthy of having their dysphorias treated as the more economically-viable folk who do manage that.   

Thus, we tell ourselves they are a different order of human being from us. We who have "taken the bull by the horns" and made ourselves ourselves and we are different, o so different, from them and they will make us look bad, take away our status and "ruin" our lives if we even for a second allow them to be part of us, or recognize that we are part of them. Part of them simply because we share a common humanity and common desires and joys and sorrows, common dreams for the future.

But they don't look right, sound right, dress right or identify right and they are certainly not "our people."

I often think that transsexuals who have "successfully transitioned and integrated themselves into society" and "do not want to compromise what they have achieved" don't want to face the fact that we are still pretty much who we were before that transition. Except now we have penises when we didn't or vulvas when we didn't and so feel a lot more contentment on our surface than we did before.

We've managed to afford one or four surgeries through the course of our "living hell" and can't really come to grips with ourselves as plain ole human beings and so need to rewrite our histories and build all sorts of walls around our lives to wall in our self-loathing and doubt.

The fear of being seen has been a part of our lives since many of us were very, very young and we just never manage to break through that loathing and hiding. It's still there and we despise "them" for causing us somewhere in the dead of the night to wake-up with nightmares that we might be one of them! Someone might someday know, or find out, and wouldn't believe I am who I am ever again. 

Not so much deception or lying, just an unwillingness to see how utterly devoid of any kind of self-acceptance we actually are. I mean, even after all that horrendous and hellish living -- why, we hardly sound like we're decrepit or broken or even much bruised.

But, we sure do like to tell everyone just how hard life was back when the school-buses didn't run, the water was from a well and the log-cabin was falling down around our ears. That story, that meme, seems so much more satisfying to our ears.

But, the telltale heart beats louder and louder and the dislike, disgust, ... hate ... pervades the rooms we drift through. We wish to stop the beating that's so loud, so uncomfortable. We must rip that heart out and destroy it so that infernal beating will cease. Where are those people hiding. Their hearts must stop beating!

So, we take the knife, raise it ...

And plunge it deeply into that loudly beating heart and silence it, breathe easier.

Breathe out our life's blood through the wound we have made in ourselves.




Edited this morning, 5/21/09 @ 9:00 a.m. for punctuation and word-choices. -- Nichole
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cindybc

So tragic, so sad and so true. Makes one wonder just how many of us make it over that hypothetical line and live happy fulfilling lives. I can only pray that those who leave here to live their lives as their true selves find happiness in their lives, for they so deserve to. It can be done, I did climb out of the bottomless pit of a past life to find a degree of happiness and contentment to feel the warm sun of life.

Cindy
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Cindy

Nicolle

What a nice post.

I worry? about this also. I feel deeply guilty at times because my problems are, well, mundane. I want corrective surgry. I have a good job, and I know many at Susan's don't but we can all afford internet.
I can afford to dress myself, feed myself, buy books and music. Plan. I can control my destiny to a great extent. I do have 2,5, 10 year plans. Ok I may die tonight but I don't intend to.

I live in a country and the society of that country that has the advantages. I feel deeply ashamed how my country treats the native Aboriginal population, I'm ashamed of how "boat people" are discarded.

I am a very lucky girl. Yes I struggle with depression, but I can get treatment. I'm not living in the squalor of a refugee camp suffering from depression wondering how I can eat. Would I want to transition there. Yes, but it would be utterly impossible. A futile dream. I presume that it would not matter to me.

If the opnion you are expressing is that we (TS) tend to enlarge our problems, I need a better adjective, then I think you are correct. However I also think it may be site specific. Since we are talking to TS friends we may tend to seek sympathy. Something that "normal" society does not give us. As it does not give sympathy to the poor, the drug addicts, the mentally ill. Society only gives sympathy to those who fit what the majority want.  "Oh we pay so much tax" which also means you have a job. The mortgage repayments are too high; you own a house. etc etc.
No I don't agree aout being in a living hell. My wife who is perfectly mentally normal, highly educated and has travelled the world with me, had a bizzare accident. One week we were treking through the bush. A month later she couldn't move. She still can't and has to live in a nursing home, average age 87, she is 55. That is a living hell.

Sorry if this is a rant


Cindy
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NicholeW.

#3
Cindy (James), I'm so sorry about your wife. I can imagine the "living hell" of your wife. My mother, much older, was placed in one of those by my brother. It was across town from me, but 45 miles from where he lived. I was her most regular visitor as she went down into the depths of Alzheimer's Disease. Yes, I can imagine how your wife must feel in such a place. You're entitled to at least a rant.

"Enlarge." :laugh: Yes, I think "enlarge" is a rather harmless word in this context. I'd use "inflate" or even "lie about" in some cases.

No one should underestimate the difficulties of gender dysphoria or of living a life that's socially-despised. Many of us have built our lives to some extent. But, most transsexuals I have "met" over the years at forums like this certainly appear and present themselves as having been "always middle-class" at the least. I've yet to meet on boards or in-person any TS/TG who was born deathly-poor in a hut on the outskirts of Dhaka and has "raised herself by her bootstraps" to become a computer-engineer in USA. They may exist, prolly do, but they aren't around me and never have been.

Cindy(bc), thank you as well. That was a nice post. :)

QuoteI can only pray that those who leave here to live their lives as their true selves find happiness in their lives, for they so deserve to. It can be done, I did climb out of the bottomless pit of a past life to find a degree of happiness and contentment to feel the warm sun of life.

You've said before you were a "street-drunk." Having worked through the years with many who, even in major, wealthy, American cities who have attempted to do that, I know that it requires struggle and more than just a bit of luck. I'm glad you made it.

I guess my point, though, is also that I get very tired of reading of the "travails" we tend to apply to our lives. And, tbh, I get rather concerned sometimes by those who appear so frightened of somehow being "outed" that they appear to only have post-transsexual lives in the pixels and conversations of places like this. They often appear afraid of being seen with other men and women of transsexing histories or to be "known" for fear that their lives will be ruined. That seems kinda sad.

I've often read the trope "well, if I survived cancer, would I walk around always calling myself a "cancer?" I always find the argument not only unpersuasive, but downright ridiculous anymore.

No, you wouldn't do that. Nor would I. But there is also that element of fear and self-loathing that appears to me to be part of the process of "re-defining my life." As though there were shame in simply having been born, with whatever traits and conditions that birth gives every human being.

And there's no doubt that being a transsexual or a transgender person and known as such may well cause some social exile. But, in our time we have seen much of that "truth" go flying back behind us. A lot of the reason for that is that women and men have unrolled their lives and their experiences for others to see.

In doing so they have often called out the humane and compassionate core of many individuals who "never knew." Just as many of us as we grew in rural, or poor urban areas "never knew." We never knew there were others, never knew that technology could afford us some relief, never knew we were anything but alone, frightened and hopeless.

It can be difficult today to realize, from sitting at my computer, that I "never knew." It's all too easy to make the tacit assumption that others now can't possibly be in the position of "never knowing." Yet, they are there, all over the world.

The fact that I have had a surgery, experienced & experience hormone treatments, etc is positive for me. For a long while I admit I was in that never-tell, never-let-on and never-be-around-or-admit-a-psychic-kinship-with-those-who-were-for-fear-of-someone-finding-out-because-then-they-would-be-as-disgusted-as-I-am-at-my-history crowd. *sigh*

Life changes. It was what it was and I have to own it. It was there and real and a part of my life. And ya know? when I do that (own it all) I do find some peace within myself. It's the sort of peace that comes with truly being able to live my life as it is: all the history, all the hope, all the delight and sadness. In that comes peace without the nagging fear that it will all be taken away by a credit-check or security-check. (Last one of those I had the vetter just said "O, just write female. You are ya know" and smiled.)

I'm not suggesting that everyone can, maybe even not suggesting that everyone should, be able to talk about our lives in a totally open fashion with everyone. I mean, cancer survivors, mental health patients, and rape survivors don't. Yet, they do talk and they are at the least somewhat open in the right circumstances. But, they also don't make attempts to further pathologize or exile or deny knowing those who do speak publically about their pasts.

In my line-of-work I have discovered the freedom and the lifting of oppression and depression that can arise by people simply owning their lives and their histories -- through and past the fear they have of how that will be seen by others.

We live our lives as we wish to live them. But I suspect from my reading that many who live their lives in secret also live them in fear, at least to some degree, some with overwhelming degrees that they will be detected as "false." What's false about a human life? 

I think that maybe the difference might be: those who can live with the secret revealed if it is revealed and those who under revealing circumstances would be terrorized by their pasts. There doesn't appear to be a lot of "happiness and contentment to feel the warm sun of life" in living with as much fear of discovery I see and have seen in some of my friends who appear to merely have transferred one life of fear and deception for another. 

N~



 




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stacyB

Quote from: NicholeI think that maybe the difference might be: those who can live with the secret revealed if it is revealed and those who under revealing circumstances would be terrorized by their pasts.
Its not denial of the past that so much the issue as not wanting the constant reminder of the pain and suffering endured. Which doesnt excuse extricating one's past. We are the sum of our parts...

Your post hits me hard because both where I came from, where I am... and where I am going.... Its still difficult for me to talk to anyone about my past with anyone who doesnt know about me as Stacy.

My past is similar in many respects to the kinds of trauma others endured... I suffered abuse growing up, and the violence in the house was both unpredictable and destructive. Ive known I was TS since I was a child, and having been caught a few times dressed I was subjected to a battery of psychological crap that did little to address my identity. Being diagnosed as ADD and fed Ritalin certainly didnt do much to help. Developed an eating disorder by 15 which just drove me deeper into the closet. By the time I was in college I was living a second life as Stacy hanging out in places I should never have been. Alcohol became an easy crutch, and I almost dropped out of school. When I finally did confront my bullimea I was pawned off to another therapist who told me I was suffering a womans disease and that I was sick for thinking I was a woman and for crossdressing. That was the night I tried to kill myself... somehow I managed to get past all that, but it wasnt just a one time thing. Thoughts of suicide hung with me for a long time.

I cant tell you how tortured I feel thinking I should have transitioned in my 20s. I was on the outs with my family and didnt care about finishing school. I didnt care that only sick people changed their gender through hormones and surgery.

Quote from: Janice Joplin"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free"

I was so convinced that I was damaged that I was detemined to bury Stacy once and for all. Finished school, moved away from my home to start over, made new friends, met and married my wife, built a new business, had a child.. yeah, sounds so much like the american dream....

Except you can never bury your past... you cant kill the loud the deafening roar of who you are...

Quote from: NicholeBut, the telltale heart beats louder and louder and the dislike, disgust, ... hate ... pervades the rooms we drift through.

I came back home and rebuilt my life. But I never shook the feeling of being damaged, being sick. After all, what normal person "thinks" they are mis-gendered? And so Stacy came back with a vengence. But only closeted. Even though I had been out in my past I was so afraid of discovery. I now had an ex-wife who wanted me out of my son's life. I rebuilt my business after my ex decimated the last one, and managed to recover from financial ruin caused by divorce. (You think transitioning is expensive? Talk to me after going through a divorce...). I made a whole new life... but a dual life.

No matter how I tried to raise the blade I couldnt silence the sound of the heartbeat... and my experience with therapists was adversarial to say the least... but I lucked out and found someone who has helped me in ways I could never have imagined...

And the cyber world opened new doors for information and finding others who more than just understood... they shared alot of the same experiences. For the first time I came to terms with who I am... and the past I so "easily" talk/post about now... it was the first time I told anyone, any other living soul. I never told my wife, or the GF after her... and thats when we come face to face with living "the lie". The guilt of not having shared such a huge part of who we were...

The fears are still real. Will my family reject me? Will my son, who has excluded me from his life because of his mother's poison... will he shut me out for good? Will I lose my business if I come out? My clients? My business partner? What about my friends? Everything that I have worked so hard for...

Quote from: NicholeThe ones who don't: non-ops, too-poor-to-ever-ops, too-sick-to-risk-it-ops, too-lacking-in-knowledge-to-ever-realize-they-might-ops or just plain I-don't-want-to-risk-it-ops or never-thought-about-it-but-have-some-gender-dissonance-ops are usually the ones who we create a second-tier in our minds for.

They either don't exist or we don't want to agree that they are just as worthy of having their dysphorias treated as the more economically-viable folk who do manage that.   

Thus, we tell ourselves they are a different order of human being from us. We who have "taken the bull by the horns" and made ourselves ourselves and we are different, o so different, from them and they will make us look bad, take away our status and "ruin" our lives if we even for a second allow them to be part of us, or recognize that we are part of them. Part of them simply because we share a common humanity and common desires and joys and sorrows, common dreams for the future.

But they don't look right, sound right, dress right or identify right and they are certainly not "our people."

And therein lies the difference... there is that turning point... I saw somewhere else where someone described it as the concept of one's "bell going off". Of realizing that in spite of the fears that the deafening sound of the explosive heartbeats cannot be shut out anymore...

So its not that the fears have changed... its that the need to transition are so great that they surpass the fear factor. And so we embark on the next leg of the journey, knowing full well that to achieve the peace and healing we so desperately have sought for so long... will have a very high cost.

Ive followed the journey of others who posted elsewhere.. and some who are active here. At times I feel like an outsider... like "they" arent approachable, because, well sh*t, look at me. They are "there", and I'm still "here". But thats just not true.. they have reached out... and to the others that deny their past, well, in the end thats what going to do them in.

But I will always have a place in heart... and soul... for those that farther behind on the path and havent made the journey to this point. They deserve no less friendship, understanding or acceptance. If they remain where they are, for whatever reason... it doesnt mean they are weak. Or that they deserve the suffering they endure simply because they cant continue on.

We as human beings are capable of extraordinary feats of strength and compassion... its what seperates up from the rest of the animal kingdom. Thats what gets us through life.. day by day, or hour by hour. But theres a lifes lesson there... dont let your new found strength blind you to your past.

We are the sum of our parts... warts and all.
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cindybc

Hi Nichole, I am open where I need to be open, I work with TS people at our local support group, but then I also still go to AA meetings even aftr not having touched a drop in 22 years. To the rest of the world I am who I present and they don't need to know any different.

I don't worry myself sick anymore if someone should come up to me and ask me that dreaded impertinent question, but it has not happened. We are never 100% safe, it can happen, so one should be prepared in-case of the possible outcome. If I somehow got outed, I would take it in stride.

Yes it is unfortunate that those who have gone through the entire transitional phase disappear into the woodwork, fearing of even being associated with those TS still in transition, or fearing any association with anything to do with their roots.

But then in many ways I can't really blame them, especially if they have began a new life as their true selves, perhaps married and working at new careers, new friends that only know them as who they present. I have even heard some say that it would upset their spouse and their new role in life and maybe even possibly cost them their jobs if they were ever to be outed.

Many a times though, it happens, many times we out ourselves before anyone else does. It has happened to me at the woman's shelter where I work. I outed myself to my employer in order to protect someone else, but luckily it stayed between me and her.

I have been fortunate to have friends both with TS and cisgendered folks, so I have not really felt isolated like some have.

Here is a letter I posted in the the local Vancouver Gender Blender forums.

QuoteJust to share a little about transitioning and SRS and my experiences, but let us first do a short review.

First, remember no two TS-girls will have quite the same experience.

Are you preparing for SRS? Then may I make a few more small points about why many post op TS-girls don't come back to message boards like this? It is not just because of pride, nor is it being just unwilling to admit they are hurting and need help in some way or another. This hurting can be from different real life experiences. Problems adjusting to daily life, isolating, inability to make friends, problems with family, boy friends, girl friends, difficulties at work, or difficulties finding a job, resulting in money problems family problems and any other number of real life experience problems they may not have been prepared for. etc.

Yes, some of the problems before SRS may not change all that much and can be carried over after SRS, unless dealt with prior to SRS. This is why it is also important that you learn to adjust to the circumstances and work on resolving possible problems beforehand, even if the full time experience has to be extended in order to do so. Be prepared and conditioned to live in the preferred gender, female in this case. Some actually make the error and neglect or wait for the last moment to prepare for this and as a result they are at a loss or in the dark as to how to live like a woman when they come out at the other end of transitioning tunnel into the hash bright light of real life.

There is a lot more to becoming a woman then just looking good in the physical image and body. Evolving physically as a passable woman is wonderful for your self-image and will be a great asset to your credibility. But evolving within, the inner self, is also very important. This growth I believe is both psychological and possibly spiritual in nature as well, and in this respect we have only begun the journey into womanhood.

This learning and growing will continue for the rest of our lives. I am 9 years full time and I am still discovering and learning different facets and characteristics about the growing inner self. A GG on the other hand has grown-up or evolved to be who she is from early childhood to wherever she finds herself in her present life, then followed by all the experiences from teenage puberty to womanhood, to conceiving a child and childbirth and rearing of children. But then, even a GG still undergoes and experiences growth within throughout her whole life. It's much like preparing for a new job, like it is wise to learn what all different aspects and responsibilities of your job is going to be before just jump in blindfolded.

Do you know what being a woman is and what living as a woman is like? The feelings, thoughts, and how she perceives the environment and other people around her she interacts with everyday? To be sure, there is not only the physical differences between women and men, but also how they feel, see, and, conceive the world around them in contemporary society. Some call these differences, stereo types, and this is where it is a seriously hazardous conception to adopt. Yes maybe many of the characteristic could be categorized as stereotypical, because of many different reasons. Much of them being in the bringing up and social conditioning, but then if you are going to be a duck I would strongly suggest you wear a duck suit and learn to walk and quack like a duck.

Both genders can perform many of the same tasks and show little difference in other observable ways while they go about doing what ever similar tasks.. But the greater difference between a woman and a man I believe would be inward. Now these ideas are only samples, not hard scientific fact. But it's not really as big a deal as it may seem. Just let instinct and intuition guide you. Estrogen will stimulate and awaken instinct and intuition to a fair degree.

I do know some post op TS-girls that have moved on with their lives and have done well for themselves. They have good jobs and have even settled down with either a male or female partner. But unfortunately I have seen some end up alone and very lonely mostly because of fear of changing their circumstances by unfortunately not allowing themselves to merge into or accepting and allowing themselves to be their true selves. But for whatever their reason, real, imaginary, or self-imposed fear beats them back. Something else about post ops, they are quite close-lipped about what is going on in their lives even if they do return to work with TS folks or return to the TS message boards. I believe that after all the years they have worked to have a stealth life, their greatest fear is that of being outed, and this has happened on occasion on message boards or while out in the community working with TS folks. Some unfortunately had to make that choice in order to come to the defense of others and for what ever other reasons

As for myself my personal feelings are that even though I have come to be close friends with some of these girls, once they leave the community in pursuit of their new life, I do pray they do not come back to the boards, or support groups, for the reason being is that to many times if they do it usually spelled bad news for them. As for myself, it has always been my nature to do my best to be of service to those in need, whether that be TS, alcoholic, addict mental health recipient, street people, after all I am retired social worker with 22 years experience behind me and I still am in the service of other on a voluntary basis. Whether it be rescuing animals or people that is my nature.

Love Cindy
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NicholeW.

A beautiful post, Stacy Brahm. Just beautiful. :icon_hug:

Cindy, I'll be very honest, if somewhat controversial in some quarters. You've passed beyond your GID.

Because, here's the controversial part, you can live and walk through your life anyway with people knowing and you're not afraid of that.

That just to say: I truly believe that when GID no longer's with us as individuals: then as Stacy said, we have no fear of being known "warts and all." As long as we deny, strive mightily to cover the fact of our transsexuality we are living yet again in the coils of hiding, fear, loathing & self-loathing and yes, deception at any cost.

If it walks, eats, quacks like a duck ... well, it's a duck; and my description above walks, acts and feels just like GID did for me.

It's not about having to be out. It's about how I cope with the fact that I am out if it occurs. How I cope with the possibility of it being known. If I can live with that, embrace it. Then GID has disappeared. If not, not.

Nichole 




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Steph

I guess I should feel honored that you quoted my post Nichole and used it as the basis for such a wonderful dissertation.

I feel kinda sheepish having used the words "living hell", to describe what I felt many transsexuals must endure to achieve a level of happiness to make their miserable lives worth living.  Those white middle class types will be the downfall of us all.

But... I'm not sure why I should feel guilty about being successful though as I didn't go through transition to become a transsexual or to remain a transsexual, for what would be the point?

QuoteI often think that transsexuals who have "successfully transitioned and integrated themselves into society" and "do not want to compromise what they have achieved" don't want to face the fact that we are still pretty much who we were before that transition.

Of course we are the same, the only thing that really changes is the bodies that carry what some would call troubled minds.  Just as one doesn't become queer, one does not become TS, we were born that way. (Well in my humble opinion)

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

http://www.facebook.com/switzerstephanie
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Hazumu

Quote from: Ladyrider on May 22, 2009, 10:05:31 PM
Of course we are the same, the only thing that really changes is the bodies that carry what some would call troubled minds.  Just as one doesn't become queer, one does not become TS, we were born that way. (Well in my humble opinion)

-={LR}=-

I'm amazed at how much the same I am, deep in side.  Yes, I have to do different things with my voice, but I have muscle memory now and I don't even think about it. 

But my deep personality is much more appropriate to the external vessel "Karen" than it ever was to [______]  I won't use the old name as I feel it'd just cloud the issue. 

But I was a cub scout, a Boy Scout, a Marine, and a soldier in the Army.  I got to do neat things that girls are disuaded from doing, like working on jet engines and and learning demolitions and playing in a rock band.  Auto mechanics can't bull**it me, I know my way around the static displays at an air show.  (And speaking of airshows, I had several of the airmen tell me I looked hot in my denim jumpsuit (maybe it was the red visor with the legend [REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT] on it >:-) ))

I'm not going to lie about that experience.  The tech knowledge comes in handy, and I still get gallant males that offer to help, pick up and carry heavy items without asking, and hold doors for me.

That's just skimming the surface.

And I'm oh-so lucky to have had encouragement to be out and unashamed.

YMMV, but it's working for me.

Karen
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V M

I live in hell. But people keep trying to tell me it's the planet earth or some stupid crap  :P
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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cindybc

Hi Nichole, My favorite saying is if you want to be a duck then you better first wear a duck suit then learn to walk and quack like a duck.

Of course I don't want the biger part of society to know about my past, but if it happens, it will not destroy me. I won't go looking for a mouse hole to hide in, the house mouse has had enough of hiding in mouse holes. I love socialising with people, both women and men, it's to much of the better part of my life after having doing social work for over 22 years.

Karen, I did all that stuff to except for the military. I did the dune buggy stuff, hot rods, speed boats, snow machines, worked most of my life as a laborer with a grade five education, traveled over most of eastern Canada and US. It certainly didn't make me more of a boy, but it was fun.  ;D

Cindy 
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tekla

Having a debate about who's life is worse and sucks more is counterproductive.  Sure, bad things have happened to other people, perhaps much worse than anything we've ever encountered ourselves.  We can never know, we've never been that person.  And, face it, all of that is, at best, relative.

Once I was lecturing my kid along those lines and his response, wise beyond his years, was: "just because 6 million people were killed by the Nazis, it doesn't mean it don't hurt when I drop a brick on my foot."  Ouch.

Still, the 'living hell' line seemed a bit much.  And, in that, how much of that hell was GID, how much other things?

I've known a few people who kinda like being TG.  Who found it something to celebrate in their life.  Are they in error?  Should they dwell in misery and depression?

But I think that Nichole is right when she points out - and I worry a lot about some of the others along these lines - that an SRS is just that, and only that.   All of those who think its going to be a miracle in their life, well, it might be, but only a little bit - its not going to redo everything.  Seems to me that more or less, most things are still about the same.  To the degree that you might be happier in yourself, you might be better adjusted.  But to the degree that you are unskilled, it's not going to help you get a job.  To the degree that your personality sucks, it's not going to make you popular.  And to the degree that other problems and conditions exist it's not going to make them go away.

And, no doubt, its very much a socioeconomic privilege that many will never have. 

How much of this misery is our own doing, a self-inflicted wound that we keep bleeding hoping to prey upon the sympathy of others?  Is that better than just being only one more person in a rather crazy world?  How much of it comes from a "Look AT ME!" need that can only be fulfilled by others?

Sad that so much stuff is that way, people saying they are doing it for themselves, but in reality they do it for others, and vice-versa.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Alyssa M.

Good post, Tekla. And good topic, Nichole.

Hell has particular meaning to me. It's a kind of suffering that isolates and starves hope. Every hell is a personal hell, and it can exist no matter what the outward circumstances. Hell is a state of mind; the opposite of hell is connection and harmony with external reality -- and often exists independent of external reality as well.

The closest I have been to hell had a lot to do with my inability to deal with my GID; at the time it was really hell. By moving past it and healing from it, I can look back on it, and illuminated by the light of my present more connected state, it looks a lot less hellish.

So when I say that my struggle with gender has been hell, I don't mean to make any comparison with anyone else's suffering, but only to describe the particular kind of suffering that it was and sometimes still is.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another.

   - Anatole France
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Arch

Another person's hell does not ameliorate mine. Never has, and likely never will.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Ladyrider on May 22, 2009, 10:05:31 PM
I guess I should feel honored that you quoted my post Nichole and used it as the basis for such a wonderful dissertation.

I feel kinda sheepish having used the words "living hell", to describe what I felt many transsexuals must endure to achieve a level of happiness to make their miserable lives worth living.  Those white middle class types will be the downfall of us all.

But... I'm not sure why I should feel guilty about being successful though as I didn't go through transition to become a transsexual or to remain a transsexual, for what would be the point?

Of course we are the same, the only thing that really changes is the bodies that carry what some would call troubled minds.  Just as one doesn't become queer, one does not become TS, we were born that way. (Well in my humble opinion)

-={LR}=-

O, don't be, LR, you stumbled into a usage I found useful. No need to feel honored by that. :) Especially in that you managed to fasten your focus, apparently, on two of the minor notes in the post and evidently missed the body of the concerto, certainly the leit-motif thread of it.

The fact of privilege lives with us all. Few (no one, as best I can tell) people escape it in all aspects of our lives. Some have relatively more and others relatively less, but pretty much all of us are privileged somewhere along the line. The important thing about economic class, race, ethnic, sex, feature and other privileges is simply to be aware where we have it and that the privilege isn't the source of our self-worth, self-esteem.

In fact, I would opine that using one's inherent or developed privilege as a marker of one's self-worth or a valid or even reasonable comparison of one's self with other's unlike her is rather an insane and useless effort. It neither builds nor enhances nor makes self-worth. Neither does it build or enhance any actual self-esteeem. The focus in those efforts is always outward and provides only a thin facade of inner strength and worth.

Having a pussy makes me a part of a bit over 50% of the total world-population. That hardly makes me exemplary or special in any way at all. Neither does having a dick for pretty much the same reasons. Those arguments I have read from TSes across the years on forums like this or on list-servs are self-defeating and ephemeral as the next time someone realizes that the person in question wasn't born with those organs configured the way they are the facade crumbles.

That's why I said to Cindybc that her GID is gone. She doesn't rest her value on her pussy. Others here certainly appear to do that and when I see it I don't see confidence and inner strength and belief. I see instead a continuing fight with GID that will never be successful without an internal process of understanding that worth comes from something other than a bodily organ, or the ability to have such an organ changed. I also see a normally frenzied and loud protest that "I am too better than." It's extraordinarily unconvincing. I don't think it even convinces those who employ the method.

I understand, all too well, that for an early transitioner such a valuing is a rather simple provider of what appears to be an easy path to changing her or his self-concept and value. But, as most such easy and facile answers are it's a wisp and disappears all too easily with one untoward event and leaves the transitioner deeply enmeshed in his or her self-devaluation and the increase of fear and shame. It enhances the problem, GID, and saps the strength the transitioner does have to help her escape the "defect" or the "disease."

As tekla said, "hellishness" or "sorrow" or "pain" are relative things. Mine for me is always of more concern to me than yours, for instance. Yet, yours would understandably be more important and acute for you than would be mine. So that, too, is a non-issue. One I can use to blur or distract from the core problem: my own fear, loathing and shame for myself.

To be able to understand my own viability and worth is to raise it interiorly, the only place it can derive and thrive. To raise it by making false and useless comparisons with another or a group of others is useless and ineffective. As is generally proven out by the immediate protest raised by a word or idea that the person who has raised his or her value exteriorly makes vociferously any time someone raises his or her internal fear level that she or he might not be "all that."

That I can walk through the world being myself, feeling no shame or fear in doing so regardless of my skin-color, my designated or formerly designated sex, my socio-economic status, whom I am friends with or where I reside without having to rely on any of those qualities and circumstances to give me a sense-of-worth is the end of my GID.

If one reaches that pre-op, post-op, non-op or as genderqueer, androgyne, crossdresser, gay, straight or lesbian then one reaches something of value for herself. To use the exterior status of being someone who uses as her raison d'etre: "being successful ...  as I didn't go through transition to become a transsexual or to remain a transsexual, for what would be the point" has indeed "missed the point." The vehicle is one that has no engine, no transmission and no means of locomotion. It merely sits as a display in a park and lends little value to one's self except as a place for children to climb and play.

Being "not a transsexual" is as valuable for my self-worth as is "not being a frog or a newt." Being "not a transsexual"  cannot and does not by some magical property of the incantation itself expunge the ongoing pain of my GID. In fact, it enhances it.

Nichole




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Hazumu

Quote from: Nichole on May 23, 2009, 03:39:55 PM
Being "not a transsexual" is as valuable for my self-worth as is "not being a frog or a newt."

Nichole

Did you get better?  >:-)

Quote from: Monty Python & The Holy GrailShe's a witch!  Burn her!

=K
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tekla

Another person's hell does not ameliorate mine. Never has, and likely never will.

The guys where I work say "You signed up for it, so the pain is mandatory, the suffering however is optional."
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Karen on May 23, 2009, 03:45:34 PM
Did you get better?  >:-)

=K

I did, but found that the change didn't do anything, one way or another, for my self-esteem. :)

Quote from: Monty Python & The Holy GrailShe's a witch!  Burn her!

O, you noticed the way those blighters weighed me with that damned duck and proved I was a witch?  :)

I have to admit that sometimes I'm amused when I see the attempts made again by that same crew in different forms. :)

Quote from: Alyssa M. on May 23, 2009, 02:06:05 PM
And good topic, Nichole.

Alyssa, thank you. You're one of those people around here who never just toss out a compliment for the sake of doing it. :)

N~
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Steph

Quote from: Nichole on May 23, 2009, 03:39:55 PM
O, don't be, LR, you stumbled into a usage I found useful. No need to feel honored by that. :) Especially in that you managed to fasten your focus, apparently, on two of the minor notes in the post and evidently missed the body of the concerto, certainly the leit-motif thread of it.

...
Nichole

O darn!  Stumble, stumble, stumble, that's me, but I'm happy you found it useful, I'm always willing to lend a hand :)  Actually, I managed to focus on the entire concerto and found it to be quite good, very interesting reading as well. :) 

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

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NicholeW.

Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 05:01:05 PM
O darn!  Stumble, stumble, stumble, that's me, but I'm happy you found it useful, I'm always willing to lend a hand :)  Actually, I managed to focus on the entire concerto and found it to be quite good, very interesting reading as well. :) 

-={LR}=-

O, you! :laugh: It's a crib from John McLaughlin!! Well, sorta, he'd prolly have used "lurched!" :)  But it seemed useful as well.

Thank you. I appreciate what I'll take as a compliment. :)

Nichole
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