Homosexuality IS an illness...

[Sigma Prime]

...we were just trying to reverse it, rather than actually treat it with the patient's long-term best interests in mind. If homosexuality had been treated in the same fashion as GID is today, it would never have been stricken from the APA's list of things that are considered to be mental illnesses. I actually feel that this is unfortunate because, as a result of homosexuality being stricken from the list, a lot of young people have grown up with feelings toward the same sex that would normally be directed toward the opposite sex, and they don't really have any social models for dealing with these feelings. They often grow up in families or in communities in which they are actively discouraged from learning how to cope with them effectively or survive in romantic relationships. Also, same-sexed couples are effectively infertile, and they should be given the same consideration as those who are biologically infertile: options like adoption and fostering would help a homosexual couple to simulate a normal familial environment, and perhaps fostering should even be considered to be a part of treatment.

This thought actually occurred to me because GID is often treated by actually changing the sex of the individual who is affected with this disorder. It's considered to be the best option for people who have GID because it is sigificantly easier and less stressful and less dangerous for the patient to change his/her hormonal balance and physical appearance, as opposed to attempting to rewire parts of the patient's brain that we don't really understand very well.

My argument for considering homosexuality to be an illness is the fact that, if it is not identified early in life, then a person who has these kinds of feelings could end up romantically attached to a person of the opposite sex. This could lead to a very stressful divorce, all the worse if there are children involved. On the other hand, if we could successfully identify them earlier in life, gay people could be spared this sort of trauma.

I know this isn't related to GID, but I was actually very inspired by the way that GID is treated. It would be very different to call homosexuality an "illness" if the focus were on helping the patient, not forcing some prescribed notion of "normalcy" on the patient whether or not it's in the patient's best interests.

With a suicide rate that is up to five times higher than that of normal youths and a greater likelihood of coming down with physical illnesses like AIDS, people who are attracted to the same sex have been grossly neglected by the psychiatric community. Homelessness among gay youths is an epidemic, with GLBTQ youths representing over 40% of homeless youths. I could cough up the sources for these numbers if asked, but the gist of it is that, because the gay community DOES suffer from various problems that are related to their sexual orientation, perhaps the psychiatric community should be more active in addressing their issues, this time concentrating on their best interests rather than trying to make them "normal."

Just a weird thought.

[tekla]

options like adoption and fostering would help a homosexual couple to simulate a normal familial environment, and perhaps fostering should even be considered to be a part of treatment.

Like, oh, say..."Take two children and call me in the morning?"  Could I make it wear a little outfit that says "Service Child" and get it on the bus free?

[Ellieka]

Like, oh, say..."Take two children and call me in the morning?"  Could I make it wear a little outfit that says "Service Child" and get it on the bus free?

ROFL! I actually spewed my morning coffee all over my keyboard!

thanks!

[Sigma Prime]

options like adoption and fostering would help a homosexual couple to simulate a normal familial environment, and perhaps fostering should even be considered to be a part of treatment.

Like, oh, say..."Take two children and call me in the morning?"  Could I make it wear a little outfit that says "Service Child" and get it on the bus free?

Okay, so that particular suggestion was a bit peculiar. The gist of the whole notion is focusing on the patient's best interests, not trying to change something that it's in the patient's best interests to leave as-is.

[Genevieve Swann]

I was under the impression that years ago it was determined homosexuality is not an illness. Or maybe that's a "treatable illness". Don't know. There will always be contraversy over that and GID I think. Some still beleive gender can be developed as society chooses. It does happen. Had a thought, imagine how many people there are who never get to experience their true gender. In many areas over 80% of crossdressers are still in the closet and coming out is not even fathomable. CD is a treatable illness. It is a choice. It depends on which dress or skirt I want to wear today. And the shoes. All of the choices one must make. Being femme requires alot of indecision and the prerogative to change ones mind at any given moment. Fact! Don't beleive me, just ask.

[finewine]

I'm struggling a bit with the concept that a homosexual person needs "treating" at all.

[Sigma Prime]

I'm struggling a bit with the concept that a homosexual person needs "treating" at all.

They lack sufficient social models for forming healthy sexual relationships, and many of them lack any familial support for developing long-term bonds. I also feel it's in the best interests of gay people to try to simulate a normal familial environment, just as it's often in the bests interests of people who have GID to simulate a lifestyle that is congruent with their "mental sex." If the psychiatric community had responded by encouraging healthy same-sex bonds, instead of officially ignoring the issue, I think that the gay community would have been much better off over these past few decades.

And homelessness in this community is an issue: http://www.safeschoolscoalition.org/RG-homeless.html

There will inevitably be gay people who try to turn somewhere for help. Well, while the cat's away, the mice will play. So-called "ex-gay" programs have run amok, particularly spreading pseudo-science in the place of actually making an effort to improve the quality of life for these people.

Mostly, though, I just thought it would be an interesting perspective.

[finewine]

They lack sufficient social models for forming healthy sexual relationships, and many of them lack any familial support for developing long-term bonds. I also feel it's in the best interests of gay people to try to simulate a normal familial environment, just as it's often in the bests interests of people who have GID to simulate a lifestyle that is congruent with their "mental sex." If the psychiatric community had responded by encouraging healthy same-sex bonds, instead of officially ignoring the issue, I think that the gay community would have been much better off over these past few decades.

Yes but I'm not sure that these treatments actually tackle the root cause of the problem which isn't so much the homosexual orientation but the problematic integration into what is still, largely, a homophobic society. Even if the psychiatric community did somehow encourage healthy same-sex bonds, how would that address problems that are fundamentally extrinsic sociological issues?

So-called "ex-gay" programs have run amok, particularly spreading pseudo-science in the place of actually making an effort to improve the quality of life for these people.

Yes I find those "ex-gay" programs very creepy indeed.

[NicholeW.]

I'm struggling a bit with the concept that a homosexual person needs "treating" at all.

Treating homosexuality as in: treating one human as yet another human being with an aggregate wide range of behaviors and preferences that are in no way illegal or inhumane but do seem to cause ire among those who haven't those preferences?

Yep, that seems like a great way to treat anyone. Even people who think the rest of us need 'treating' of some fashion in order that we comply with that which they presume to be 'normal.' 

[tekla]

Or 'treat' as in "If we're going to your favorite gay bar again you're buying."

[Ellieka]

Its not the gay, lesbian, or transgendered people that need conditioning, it is society as a whole. Main stream society needs to become more open and accepting of the fact that we are here and we did not choose to be this way.

If we reduce the hate and ignorance in main stream society then all the other social problems faced by the LGBT community will diminish.

[tekla]

Its not the gay, lesbian, or transgendered people that need conditioning, it is society as a whole

Yeah, but that's an equal copout, just in a different direction.  Society is always changing, its not constant nor is is consistent.

[finewine]

Treating homosexuality as in: treating one human as yet another human being with an aggregate wide range of behaviors and preferences that are in no way illegal or inhumane but do seem to cause ire among those who haven't those preferences?

Unsurprisingly I agree with this context of "treating" others

Yep, that seems like a great way to treat anyone. Even people who think the rest of us need 'treating' of some fashion in order that we comply with that which they presume to be 'normal.'

Sure, as long as that doesn't preclude discussing or even respectfully challenging an opinion

[Sigma Prime]

Even if the psychiatric community did somehow encourage healthy same-sex bonds, how would that address problems that are fundamentally extrinsic sociological issues?

By hastening the process of social normalization. Furthermore, it would be easier to pass laws allowing gay people to adopt if the psychiatric community were outspoken in suggesting that adopting children would help gay people to develop a healthy, relatively normal familial environment. Also, people who tend to have a socially conservative mindset tend to be comforted by the notion of "more normal." They also tend to be comforted by the notion that something they consider to be a problem or a potential threat is being dealt with or controlled somehow, and part of this sector of society may have been alienated, ironically, by the fact that the APA chose to simply wash their hands of the issue.

Yes I find those "ex-gay" programs very creepy indeed.

Oh, and what about that "gay exorcism" that has been infesting the media lately? Awful.

[NicholeW.]

Sure, as long as that doesn't preclude discussing or even respectfully challenging an opinion

Of course not, opinions are very much like anuses: some need wiping up and others have already been wiped.

You seem rather tidy, finewine.

[finewine]

By hastening the process of social normalization. Furthermore, it would be easier to pass laws allowing gay people to adopt if the psychiatric community were outspoken in suggesting that adopting children would help gay people to develop a healthy, relatively normal familial environment. Also, people who tend to have a socially conservative mindset tend to be comforted by the notion of "more normal." They also tend to be comforted by the notion that something they consider to be a problem or a potential threat is being dealt with or controlled somehow, and part of this sector of society may have been alienated, ironically, by the fact that the APA chose to simply wash their hands of the issue.

I'm unsure if many of the socially conservative would agree with this because they can't fit homosexuality into the definition of a normal familial environment.  They'd probably only define "heterosexual" as "normal" and would still see homosexual people with the trappings of normality as still a "problem".  I'm sure they'd lap up the idea of treating those deviant pooftahs however

Oh, and what about that "gay exorcism" that has been infesting the media lately? Awful.

It's absolutely despicable.  I can sometimes empathise with the Bond-esque super villain who wants to wipe out swathes of humanity and start again in a "utopia" of fatherly dictatorship.  (finewine daydreams about riding in the back of a jeep with sunglasses, a bushy mustache and a uniform full of scrambled eggs with the crowds shouting "viva el presidente!"...hehehe).  It won't be long before I can afford to buy Zimbabwe.  Nice little fixer-upper for the up-and-coming fascist dictator.

Of course not, opinions are very much like anuses: some need wiping up and others have already been wiped.

You seem rather tidy, finewine.

I do like to keep a nice, clean balloon knot.  lol!

[Sigma Prime]

If we reduce the hate and ignorance in main stream society then all the other social problems faced by the LGBT community will diminish.

This is beyond the scope of the psychiatric community, though. They are not politicians, and that's probably why they chose to wash their hands of this issue as completely as possible. The problems are nonetheless there, and what the psychiatric community can do is help gay people deal with these problems. Gay youths, particularly in this society, are likely to be in far more need of family counseling. Look here: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/homeless_youth Isn't this appalling statistic evidence that gay youths are likely to be more in need than others of family counseling? Regardless of what is causing this conflict, the problem is still there, and there are things that the psychiatric community could do in order to address it.

[NicholeW.]

This is beyond the scope of the psychiatric community, though. They are not politicians, and that's probably why they chose to wash their hands of this issue as completely as possible. The problems are nonetheless there, and what the psychiatric community can do is help gay people deal with these problems. Gay youths, particularly in this society, are likely to be in far more need of family counseling. Look here: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/homeless_youth Isn't this appalling statistic evidence that gay youths are likely to be more in need than others of family counseling? Regardless of what is causing this conflict, the problem is still there, and there are things that the psychiatric community could do in order to address it.

Actually, psychologists and psychiatrists have a very good ear most of the time for what is culturally acceptable. That is often the basis for many of the listings in the DSM and the treatments offered.

[Arch]

...we were just trying to reverse it, rather than actually treat it with the patient's long-term best interests in mind. If homosexuality had been treated in the same fashion as GID is today, it would never have been stricken from the APA's list of things that are considered to be mental illnesses.

Hmmm. Interesting but disturbing.

Many of us feel that GID shouldn't be in the DSM, either.

And I don't know about anybody else, but it's not my "GID"--sorry, my therapist and I both agree that it shouldn't be considered a disorder--that is being treated in therapy. My gayness isn't being treated in therapy. I don't want to be pathologized just so I can learn to cope with a problem that I see as being (largely) societal. I would rather be seen as a normal variation and be taught how I might better navigate life. And that's pretty much what is happening for me, thanks to my miraculously wonderful therapist.

Just speaking for my own experience: you have no idea what a huge psychological boost it was to receive a T letter that explicitly did not pathologize me by mentioning GID. And what a huge and disturbing jolt it was to see "GID" written on my paperwork at the endo's office. My therapist tells me that I'm normal. I used to joke about that: "Sure, yeah, I'm a normal freak. Uh-huh." Now I'm beginning to see what he means. I'm beginning to feel it. There's nothing wrong with my brain. It's different, but my brain works fine. So I don't feel that I have a psychological disorder.

I don't want to get into a whole big thing here, but recognizing possible homosexuality in a young person is not the same as pathologizing it. Can't we recognize without pathologizing?

[Sigma Prime]

Hmmm. Interesting but disturbing.

This was how most people felt about accepting homosexuality several decades ago. I think it's best to leave unusual points of view as "interesting," and try to get past any intellectual allergic reactions we might have to them.

Many of us feel that GID shouldn't be in the DSM, either.

Thereby declare that a person who didn't start HRT until his/her forties isn't likely to have special problems with body image. Furthermore, even a person who is post-transitional is likely to go through stages in which he/she feels like some kind of imposter. People who have GID actually do have a special set of problems that need to be addressed.

I don't want to get into a whole big thing here, but recognizing possible homosexuality in a young person is not the same as pathologizing it. Can't we recognize without pathologizing?

That's what we're doing with people who have GID. It's not considered to be a pathological condition that needs to be "cured," but it is recognized that people with GID have special needs that utilities are needed in order to address effectively. By the same token, you can't "cure" homosexuality, but you can address the problems that are likely to be associated with the condition of being homosexual. For example, in a society where young gay people are likely to be bullied by their heterosexual peers, issues like self-esteem and dealing with confrontational situations are likely to be a concern. Also, gay people are undeniably "different" from others, and it's an inescapable part of the human situation to want to feel more like and be more like our peers; therefore, even without prejudice that is induced by misogyny and religious persecution, this is always going to weigh on gay people to a certain extent.