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Did you?

Started by Leigh, August 22, 2005, 09:40:38 PM

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Leigh

Think about this before you post!

Did you have surgery to transition?

or

Did you transition to have surgery?
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Terri-Gene

Think about it indeed!  A seemingly very simple question, but a lot can be seen in the answer, and thinking about it can be confusing as well as enlightning.

I did think about it a bit and I'm still a little confused as how to answer, but i'll take a stab at it, though neither question is how I would think of it.

I would say that I entered the Transitional process with the idea that surgery was the goal and the transitional process was simply the way I had to go to get there.  Surgery itself and not transition was always my overriding concern, so I would have to say that on starting, I was transitioning to have surgery.  Over time, my view has changed,  I have learned that not even surgery, not even by the best of surgeons, will actually make me complete with myself, all it will do is clear up the problem I have in my genital situation, it will not address the issue of how i feel about myself beyond that point, thus I would still be incomplete as a whole and complete person.  I also need acceptance and companionship of other women who have no doubts or reservations about my affiliation and kinship with them.  Accept me unconditionally as one of them, regardless of how they feel about other issues about me which they may never accept and have no obligation to.  I simply need to be a true part of a whole in order to be whole, as otherwise, I am nothing, no matter how perfect the SRS, my appearance, presentation etc. etc. I must truely be and be recognized as, or be nothing more then I was.

In this respect, Transition becomes more equal with surgery in importance, though now they are more equal in necessity.  Surgery without true transition, which is as much mental and emotional as physical, would hardly make one anything other then more comfortable with the genital situation, but it wouldn't make one anything they were not already, and if transition has not been accomplished, all that would be is a self identified female, not a woman in the true sense.

As one born in a male body, I have viewed and learned life from a male perspective, regardless of any "inner" me.  I have experienced the world as a male would and many of my views and thoughts are deeply influenced by that in a way they wouldn't have if I had viewed and experienced it as a natural born female would have.  I have found that no matter what I thought I knew or understood about the female experience and condition, I have viewed it or interpeted it somewhat like through a telescope and unable to see the fine detail while living outside the circle.  On entering the edges of the circle, more detail comes through with more clarity, and thus more sharp the perceptions of it, and the more the former view is challenged, and this process continues as I go deeper into the circle and gradually male perspective is replaced by female perspective.

It is a long process and there is so much further to go, but to me, I must be as far as I can go and be at the time of surgery for it to give me the true joy it should, though I will still have so much to experience and learn about my true nature as a woman once surgery is accomplished.

Terri

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stephanie_craxford

#2
This is a good one  :)
Quote from: Leigh on August 22, 2005, 09:40:38 PM
Think about this before you post!

Did you have surgery to transition?

or

Did you transition to have surgery?


I don't think that either one applies to me.  I transitioned because I'm a woman.  I look at transitioning as a process that will fix a biological, error that was made when I was born.  There are several parts/steps/issues that are addressed through transition, and one of those steps happens to include surgery.  Although surgery is not an essential part for some, it is for me.  and at this time I see it as the grand finale :)

Hmmmmmmmmm

Chat later

Steph
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AllisonY2K

Nope. Surgery is a long ways away for me, so I didn't transition to have surgery.
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Cassandra

I've always thought of the surgery as a necessary evil at the end of a long transitional road. As has been said not every one feels the need to have the surgery and are contented to accomplish transition to a point of acceptance and leave it at that. I want to be as close to 100% as is medically possible. Even if it was possible to be 100% medically speaking. As Teri pointed out one could never be 100% mentally, since most of our lives were lived as male. As we become more female our perspective may bring us closer to understanding, but our former maleness will always make us different, regardless of our acceptance by other women as women. So I guess the answer is transitioning to have surgery, although I'm not entirely sure I understand the question.
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Terri-Gene

Is kind of a tricky question Cassie, and somewhat hard to relate to, but I found it to be very thought provoking.  And I didn't say it wasn't possible to 100% mentally identify, only that it takes work and self analysis.  As to being different because of expeience, yes, but consider a natual born woman raised in a male environment, and you can have a very simular person.  It can cancel out.

I think the purpose in posing the questions was to make one think about what personal motives were in the first place, at least that is what happened for me when I thought about the questions and tried to reason out the difference they made in relationship to one another. I found it profound in the difference, but intertwined in a since from my own perspective as I would have to have done both in order to have actually transitioned given my own particular mindset.

Terri
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stephanie

The more I think about it, the more I see it like this, and I apologize if this just sounds like I'm unwilling to choose either one:

I am transitioning to have surgery, in order to transition.

Like Cassie, I also want to be as close as I can to 100%.  That requires surgery, and the surgery requires the transition process; therefore, I am transitioning to have the surgery.  But wanting to be 100% or as close as possible mentally, that requires transition alone.  The drive to be female in every way needs the transition, which needs the surgery, which needs the transition.  I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but to me there is no "need this for that" or the other way around.  They are intertwined in my opinion.  I will not have fully transitioned without the surgery, and the surgery is not complete without the transition.

Both are a means to the other's end.

--Stephanie
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Terri-Gene

Which brings up the question: at what point, at what accomplishment, has transition actially occurred?  All should understand surgery and being able to recognize when that is done, but what about transition?  What does it mean and when has it been completed?  What has been accomplished when it is completed?

To me, understanding that, or ones own interpetation of it, must be understood to ones self in order to understand the original questions as both had to do with transition with surgery as a process involved, thus transition being the ultimate goal.

each will differ ....

Terri
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Cassandra

Well Teri it seems you have a fondness for peeling onions. When has one transitioned? Can anyone ever fully transition? Is there such a thing? On the one hand you could say one has transitioned when one feels fully, shall we say "genderised". Okay I made the word up. it's late and it works. But that point is different for everyone.

There are days I feel transitioned mentally because I feel and act like a woman without really thinking about it. Like the other day when I had no makeup or anything on and the utility man referred to me as mam. At that time I was thinking and acting like a woman but until I suddenly realised I had no makeup no wig or any other visual clue to indicate that I was a woman I was totaly unaware that I was doing anything that would indicate female but I was.
Voice, mannerism attitude all came together and said to this man woman. I realised that it had become so natural to me that I didn't have to think about it.

But then other days I am aware of so much more that is still to learn to understand about being a woman. I head out the door and I know there are so many things I haven't encountered yet. Some things I may encounter and be unaware of until much later when I suddenly realise that something was said or done because I'm a woman. Sometimes I am treated a particular way that I like, like when a man holds a door for me. Other times I become aware of certain condescension and this is a new thing. As a man I was always taken seriously but now sometimes I catch a certain air of "Oh you wouldn't understand, your just a woman." Boy when that one hits you, you sit up and take notice. You realise there is more to this than you thought. So when have you transitioned? Can an exact point be determined?


Cassie
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Terri-Gene

QuoteWell Teri it seems you have a fondness for peeling onions

One of my major faults some would say.  I can't look at anything without wanting to know how it feels, how it relates to all about it, what it can and can not do, what is it's joy, what is it's dispair, I want to know and experience everything I can in the time I have and understand what I can of it and share what can be shared.  A kind of natural curiosity that can't seem to ever be satisfied, it will probably be what actually gets me in the end, but I can't imagine being different.

QuoteSo when have you transitioned? Can an exact point be determined?

I couldn't honestly answer that, as I haven't yet, but I believe I will know it in my heart and soul when I do, but I may not be able to explain it to anyone, but they will also know, of that I have no doubt.

Terri
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Alison

ooooo what a brain bender....

Interesting responses so far....
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beth

                         transition is changing your gender presentation as much as possible from MTF or FTM. presentation includes appearance, voice, walk, mannerisms etc. there is no requirement to "pass" as the new gender to be fully transitioned, just that you have done as much as is possible in your case. SRS falls under changing presentation to those that are intimate with you and it is also changing presentation to yourself. so SRS is part of transition.


"you have surgery to transition"


beth
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Sheila

I think I will have to go with, I transitioned then needed the surgery. I felt not complete after I transitioned. When I woke up the first time in the hospital I had to look. Then was very calm and went back to sleep happy. Still under the drugs. My wife said I woke up with a smile and very content.
Sheila
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Melissa

This is a good thread I missed.  I transitioned for transition's sake; to live in my true gender  The surgery will just be an added benefit so I can get rid of a nasty uncomfortable thing.

Melissa
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Chynna

Quote from: Leigh on August 22, 2005, 09:40:38 PM

Did you have surgery to transition?
Did you transition to have surgery?



I didn't have any surgeries yet...
And I don't plan on (95% sure)  on having SRS....

I transitioned because I was actually tired of people mistaken me for a girl...or looking at me funny because I was man with b-c cups....Funny thing when I was like 21 years old me my girlfriend at the time where about to have sex for the first time when I took off my shirt and she looked at me and said "Did you used to be a woman!" I was mortified and snapped back "hell no..." she then began making comments on my height, feet and hands...needless to say we never had intercourse because she was conveinced I was a sex change!......

But the real reason I transitioned
I was bored when they took Seinfield off the air! After that it was just "Will & Grace" so I had no choice Transition & reruns it was

Chynna
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Sarah Louise

I agree with the answer several of the other girls gave, I transitioned purely to be who I am.

I transitioned because the "so called" life I was leading before was a lie, it was not who I really was or am.

I am a woman, transition was strickly to show outwardly who I was in my heart and mind.

Surgery is a goal for most of us, to make us feel complete.

Sarah L.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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Melissa

Surgery is not a goal, it is a checkpoint on the road of life.

Melissa
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Melissa

Anatomy is not destiny, right Tink?

Melissa
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tinkerbell

Quote from: Melissa on September 13, 2006, 12:05:03 AM
Anatomy is not destiny, right Tink?

Melissa

You got it! :)

tinkerbell :icon_chick:
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Elizabeth

Hi everyone,

I must have missed this thread the first time around. Very thought provoking questions.  I have perhaps a different perspective.  I don't see myself as changed or needing to change.  What needed to change was how I was living my life.  I have always been female, but being in a male body made me beleive I had to live my life as a male.

The most important thing I have learned is that I am just me and I now live my life as a woman and have for about 2 years.  While I admit at it is very frustrating and difficult having to live in this male body, it does not make me a man, and having my testicles removed and my penis turned inside out will not make me a woman.

What it will do is make my body so I don't dislike it so much, which will make living in it easier. I have given up on the idea of pleasing society, so even if I don't pass 100% it still does not mean I am not a woman.  There are plenty of butch women that look less female than me.

Because of being physically disabled and unable to generate income, it is going to be a while before I can realistically consider surgery.   I can choose to accept this and live my life as happy as I can, or I can stress over it and find no joy in anything.

While living in the female role does not cure the dysphoria 100%, it is such a dramatic improvement over the first 42 years I am happier than I have ever been.  Would having a more female body make me happier?  Sure, but I don't see it as a magic bullet.  The magic bullet was accepting that I really am female despite my male body.  It was hard to beleive and even harder to accept, but having done that, I have resolved most of the conflicts in my life.

I hope that answers the question.

Love always,
Elizabeth
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