Orchi limbo

[MaggieB]

For the last few months, I have been thinking about GID and treatments that alleviate it.  HRT does a lot for sure as does RLE  but the legal documentation has got to be one of the biggest.  Getting those documents was priority one to me.  I  didn't mention surgery because that my most confusing and troublesome issue   As many of you know, I had an orchi last January.  It is legal to have ones gender marker changed on all documents because the exact type of gender reassignment surgery is not specified legally.  A surgeon's letter is all that is required to verify that some form of gender reassignment has taken place.  My surgeon wrote a letter that satisfied everyone.  For a while, the rush of the new documentation was enough for me.
   The rub is that we all know that SRS (vaginoplasty) is the gold standard for gender reassignment surgery and even in our community there is a transsexual hierarchy with those who have had it at the top. The non op or pre op is often considered not to have the same level of accomplishment or validity as the SRS person but the  orchi leaves one in limbo.  I am not trying to stir up an argument here but rather to discuss the issue of just what I should think of myself in this status.  The pre op has hopes that she can have the surgery or she may even have it scheduled.  The non op can't or doesn't want to have SRS or an orchi.  But having an orchi gave me the legal standing of being a female yet I know I am less of a female than the SRS women.  I don't think of it too much in the trans community but when I think of society and relationships, I do think of it a lot.  I also think of this issue when I touch or see myself.
   The physical reality of having an orchi and being on estrogen is almost identical to the SRS woman.  The same hormone issues exist.  Of course, I don't have a vagina that secretes vaginal fluid but my scrotum has become so soft and tender that it is almost like a mucous membrane. It also secretes a pasty material that smells like a woman's genitals which is noticeable to me at the end of the day.  The skin on my penis has thinned and is similar to the scrotum. I have to be very careful not to snag the skin with a sharp fingernail or a cut will occur.  I don't have the bulge now and with the vastly reduced size of the penis and scrotum, in my panties, I look totally female.   Orgasms have totally changed in character.  I don't have a sex partner now so it is just me and the craving for someone to touch me is palpable.  I can't just get my rocks off as when I was male and I must be extremely careful not to tear the very tender skin down there.  My breast growth has accelerated after being relatively stable for a few years.   
   So what is the big deal?  It is because I can't hope to have SRS for financial and family reasons.  All I could get agreement to support was an orchi and I paid a heavy emotional price to have that.  Losing my spouse in bed, permanently,  is one of the casualties.  I know that any partner that I could have, male or female would have an issue with my equipment.  I desperately want SRS to be normal.  I can't even hope to have a relationship because of it.  I am not happy in this condition and while it is far better than nothing and it goes a long way to alleviate my GID, it causes new problems.   Knowing this, I feel like a second class member of the community, a pathetic wannabe who cannot ever be truly accepted but who is legally female.   That is limbo and it is very uncomfortable.   

Maggie

[Janet_Girl]

Maggie,

I can very much empathize with your discomfort.  I am still pre-op, and wanting a orchie myself.  SRS is very much in the future, but right now I just want the orchie.

I would not worry about a partner right now.  There is someone out there that wants a loving relationship, without the need of the sexual aspect.

You are yourself still  and maybe Jenn will have words of wisdom as she is at the same point.  But I wish you the best My Dear.


Janet

[Sandy]

Kay!

I don't know whether to spank you or hug you.  I may do both!

First off, you are a woman!  Where it counts.  Deep in your heart and head you know who and what you are.  That, frankly, is all I see as well.  Many women have to suffer with some very serious birth defects.  We're all in that boat, hon.  You have taken steps to alleviate it.  That is no small effort!  Very few of us complete this part of their journey.

Think of the hurdles you have had to overcome:

Come out to yourself.  This is the biggest and hardest step of all.  After a lifetime of denial, you finally awake to yourself.  So many refuse to ever see that terrified little girl within them, let alone recognize that she is actually the one you see in the mirror.

Seek support.  You've discussed this with your spouse and family then have seen a counselor.  This has cost you so very much in emotional devastation.  Yet, like so many others, you could no longer stay within the burning building of your birth gender.  You could change or die.  You chose life.  That was brave.  Many have not.

Take steps.  You came out to all and sundry.  You came out to your business!  This could have cost you your very livelihood.  Yet you could do nothing else.  The drive to change is so similar to a drowning person or a caterpillar going into chrysalis.

You changed.  You purged, sloughed off, shed, that which has held you prisoner since the very moment you were born!

You were reborn!  You did not drown, you emerged from chrysalis.  You have become yourself.  You may be familiar with the line from the Hindu scripture: "I am become death".  There is no opposite line though there should be: "I am become life!"  For the light that shines from you lights up the world with that wonderful smile of yours.

This journey of ours is not for the faint of heart.  Truly, no one who is not as strong as we are, can bear the terrible weight of this "blessing inside a curse".

It takes a terrible toll on us all.  Our lives are irrevocably changed.  It destroys relationships that are not built on very solid foundations.  Quite often we are left with nothing.  Except our lives.

No, hon, we can never have a loving relationship with another human being that is not without fear.  We MUST tell.  When do we tell?  Can we delay telling?  What will they do?  Will they leave if they find out?  Will they leave once I am no longer half and half?  Am I in danger?  This is true for all who journey down this path.  Regardless of the physical status.  Always.  Forever.

Maggie, you are a woman!  So much so.  I am truly sorry if you have the feeling that there is some sort of sorority of post-op women that excludes you.  If I have done anything to give you that impression, please accept my most humble apology.

As you may be aware, I too, had an orchi.  I wasn't sure that SRS was right for me but I could no longer stand having those things that so branded me as masculine.  The moment I awoke from anesthesia I felt as if a great weight had been lifted from my shoulders.  The "joys" and cares that come from being post-op orchi are as you said, *interesting*.  Anything but the most delicate touch could cause some serious damage.  Self stimulation was a completely new experience and a much greater effort than I had anticipated.  I was prepared to go the rest of my life as I was, because at that time I had pretty much tapped out the very last shekel I could put my hand on.  Only through a happy accident was I afforded the opportunity to make a complete disaster of my credit rating.      I did too.

You are not pathetic, and certainly no wannabe!  There are those who look up to you for all the accomplishments you have achieved!  I am proud to have you as my friend and sister!

Alright, enough of the spanking!

*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*HUGS!!*

BTW: How's the new book coming?

-Sandy

[Suzy]

I am not happy in this condition and while it is far better than nothing and it goes a long way to alleviate my GID, it causes new problems.   Knowing this, I feel like a second class member of the community, a pathetic wannabe who cannot ever be truly accepted but who is legally female.   That is limbo and it is very uncomfortable.   

Dear Maggie,  I feel and understand your pain.  I am still not sure by what you wrote if this pressure comes from within or without.  I will ask you what was asked of me recently:  Who are you trying to please?

HUGS!

Kristi

[Wendy1974]

Maggie don't you EVER let anyone tell you or make you feel that you are 'less than' as a woman! Yes there are a few people who think that those that are post op srs are somehow better than or more woman than the rest. I have a word for that type of woman it starts with 'ass' and ends in 'hole'. Most people here do not feel that you have to be post op to be a woman. Personally I think you are an inspiration. I don't know whether the problems stopping you from getting srs are financial or medical or both and it isn't my business but maybe one day the situation will change, maybe it won't, either way you are just as much a woman as anyone else as far as I am concerned and have been since the day you were born. Since srs is important to you (it is for me too) I hope you do get what you want.

Wendy

[MaggieB]

Sandy,
Your support has been vital to me over the years.  I followed your example in almost everything in my transition. Your reports of how easy it was and that the big bugaboos we worry about don't have to happen.  In fact, just like you, they didn't happen for me.  I never entertained an orchi seriously until you had one.   When I found a surgeon locally that has been doing orchi's on an outpatient basis for $1500 and wrote letters that were accepted by the authorities, I had to go for it. As soon as my letters were in my hands, I contacted him.  My wife threw a huge roadblock in my way at the time and it delayed me for six months.  Finally, she relented and I was allowed to go. She agreed to help me recover.  I didn't know though that it was the pivotal event in her mind that convinced her of my being a transwoman.  She doesn't think  I am a woman like her, just a different kind, one that can't relate to women's issues the same way.

I have been very pleased with the orchi and I love it that I live my life completely free as a female.  I am not trying to please anyone about my gender but I do know that what remains between my legs is not supposed to be there.  It separates me from other women, post op SRS women too.  You did not cause my current feelings nor did anyone here specifically do that.  Rather, my feelings came from reading the general tone of the post op gals vs the others.

I also admit that I would be tempted to feel superior if I had managed to climb the SRS mountain.  The accomplishment to overcome the financial barriers are huge. Even more so, the sheer courage to go through the pain and discomfort are mind boggling to me.  I was terrified to go under the knife yet I knew that it had to be done.  It was the hardest thing I ever had to do.  I knew I was doing it essentially alone and I was not at all sure I could tolerate the pain as I was under a local anesthesia.  That part was not that bad and I shouldn't have worried so much about it.  My wife did help me afterwards to recover but she took her engagement ring off when we got home.  She had removed her wedding ring months earlier.  That act hurt far more than the surgeon's knife.  When I imagine what it would take for me to have SRS, I know, I would lose my only support and of course, no money would be allocated.  I feel that it would be easier for me to win a Pulitzer prize than to get SRS.   So I do put those who have achieved it on a pedestal and I can't help but pine for SRS.

What I want is to be complete.  I want to be able to stand naked before another human being and not have them see what I am like now.  I can't imagine ever even flirting with another lesbian because of my condition. Actually,  I have been considering males now too and there is some arousal for me there.  Yet, what gay male wants a femme transwoman?

Oh, on the second book, I have over 50000 words in it and most chapters written in first draft form.  I still have lots of fleshing out and rewriting to do before I could even call the material a first draft.  Still the story line is set and I think I have the ending I want.

Wendy,
You are so sweet.  I am so touched by your post.  That I could be an inspiration to anyone is humbling to me.  Thank you.

Kristi,

When I think of ending my total isolation other than this keyboard, I want to be able to touch another human and have that person touch me.  I crave to have the loving relationship I once had with a soul mate.  I know now that being trans ended the romance of a lifetime. It is very hard to accept being alone until I die.  That is why I am even more driven to have SRS in spite of all my fears and all the obstacles.  I am a romantic and believe in love. Someone that loved me would support me getting SRS.  I need it for me just as much as to be accepted fully as a woman.

Warm HUGS to all, thank you all for being so nice!

[aurora17]

Maggie, you should not focus on not having had your SRS yet.

As far as I'm concerned, the most important surgery is not SRS but FFS, as it unlocks the transition process and facilitates social acceptance and blend-in... I decided for the FFS first for that reason. People are not going to see my genitals everyday, but my face is on public display...

The SRS can wait 1 or 2 more years, it's not so important. What does it allows, apart from bikini shots, anyway ?

[Suzy]

When I think of ending my total isolation other than this keyboard, I want to be able to touch another human and have that person touch me.  I crave to have the loving relationship I once had with a soul mate.  I know now that being trans ended the romance of a lifetime. It is very hard to accept being alone until I die.  That is why I am even more driven to have SRS in spite of all my fears and all the obstacles.  I am a romantic and believe in love. Someone that loved me would support me getting SRS.  I need it for me just as much as to be accepted fully as a woman.

Thank you, Maggie.  I hope you know that I was not trying to be hard on you.  I just hated the thought of someone having surgery because some idiot was making you feel inferior.  You are a beautiful woman.  Stick to your guns, sweetie.

Kristi

[Sandy]

Sandy,
...
I didn't know though that it was the pivotal event in her mind that convinced her of my being a transwoman.  She doesn't think  I am a woman like her, just a different kind, one that can't relate to women's issues the same way.

**sigh***

...
I have been very pleased with the orchi and I love it that I live my life completely free as a female.  I am not trying to please anyone about my gender but I do know that what remains between my legs is not supposed to be there.  It separates me from other women, post op SRS women too.  You did not cause my current feelings nor did anyone here specifically do that.  Rather, my feelings came from reading the general tone of the post op gals vs the others.


I knew you would be pleased with the orchi.  Also it lets you tuck very tightly now doesn't it?  Just remember, it's just a birth defect, hon, nothing more.  You are very much a woman.


...
My wife did help me afterwards to recover but she took her engagement ring off when we got home.  She had removed her wedding ring months earlier.  That act hurt far more than the surgeon's knife. 

**more sigh**
Hon, I do so pray that she will relent and give you the support that you deserve.  You have been there for her for so many years.  Isn't your turn now?


...
What I want is to be complete.  I want to be able to stand naked before another human being and not have them see what I am like now.  I can't imagine ever even flirting with another lesbian because of my condition. Actually,  I have been considering males now too and there is some arousal for me there.  Yet, what gay male wants a femme transwoman?


There will come a time where this phase of your life will be a memory.  As far as your attraction goes, just go with the flow.  I thought I would be a lifelong lesbian, but I have to admit that the male form does hold some more than passing attraction for me.  And as far as finding a male, don't necessarily restrict yourself to the gay community.  Actually many men, gay and straight, are attracted to women like us.  Though do be careful, ok? 

-Sandy

[MaggieB]

While there is no doubt that sex is important to me, what I miss more is just being able to snuggle up with someone, to be touched, caressed.  I used to give my wife a hand massage so she could get to sleep. I did that every night for twenty years but now we sleep in separate bedrooms.  I look forward to getting my hair cut by the hair dresser partly because I get human contact. I am a very sensual, tactile person and this lack of touching is like being in a dark cell in solitary confinement.   

As for men, well, I can imagine sex with that but it has to be as gentle as a woman and well, that is not going to be a combo to find. Plus he would have to be not hairy, not athletic, not crude, not aggressive, not pompous, not selfish, not childish, not... male.

As for the FFS idea,  I will just say this.  I pass.  I do get attention from strangers.  A lesbian once said that my legs are those of a thirty year old.  She thought I would be eaten up by a butch.  Sadly, I am attracted to a femme. 

Actually, if I did find someone, I would probably become homeless overnight.  My SO asked me not to date as a condition of staying together and I am dependent on her financially right now as my business has taken a hit in the recession. 

Sandy, once again, you are so dear.  Thank you...

Maggie

[Steffi]

While there is no doubt that sex is important to me, what I miss more is just being able to snuggle up with someone, to be touched, caressed.

Me too! The implant has killed my sex drive and I don't miss it at all ....... even my memories of it seemed blurred and distant and that after only a couple of years.
- but I miss a cuddle and a caress so much I could weep   

[fae_reborn]

Maggie, sorry I am posting this late, I have been busy with my new job and it is very tiring working the night shift.  My bed has pretty much become my best friend! 

maybe Jenn will have words of wisdom as she is at the same point.

I am still working on it one day at a time, and as I said in another thread, for me the self acceptance is the hardest, but the most important part.

I have to second what Sandy and the others have said, that you are not less of a woman, you ARE a woman, Maggie.  Period.  Nothing will ever change that.  Yes, right now you have the wrong parts (as do I), and for various reasons SRS is years away (for me, possibly never, getting the Orchi was scary enough for me, and I am too afraid and too poor for srs).  But that doesn't make you less of a woman.  Never let anyone tell you otherwise.

We may be decades apart in age, but we are very much in the same boat, you and I.  I really wish I had some better advice.

As for the whole "hierarchy" of post-op, orchi, pre-op, non-op, I think that's a bunch of bull.  I don't believe in hierarchies, and where they exist, they should be torn down.  We are all Mother's children, and each of us is worthy in their own way.

In regard to the intimacy/romance...I can't really say much.  I'm still a virgin and have been single since I broke up with my one and only girlfriend (pre-transition) many years ago, with more or less failed love interests in-between.  Like you Maggie, I'm a romantic at heart, and at present I am seriously longing to be held by someone.  I am very lonely, and wish I could be with another woman, but I don't know when that will occur.  I'm afraid of facing the reality of being alone, but I am hoping that will not happen, that I will find someone or they me eventually.  But since I am very shy and reserved, I have my doubts.  I can only offer my condolences.

I sort of wish this post were more eloquent, but I'm tired and it's getting late, so again my apologies.

Jenn
"Fae"