All right, I have a question about American politics...

[Jaimey]

I feel kind of stupid asking this because I am American, but anyway...

Right now on the Daily Show, Jon Stewart is making fun of the whole "President Obama isn't an American citizen thing" and here's my question.

Even if he weren't born on American soil (which I think he was, but this is hypothetical), because his mother is American, does it matter?  I thought that the requirement for the President's citizenship status was that they are a natural born citizen.  That just means American at birth and since his mother is American, doesn't that automatically make him a natural born citizen? 

(btw...he was born in Hawaii, but some of his opposition refuses to believe that, if you aren't up on the ridiculous crap that gets passed off as news over here...)

[lizbeth]

the argument the birthers try to make is that since she (obama's mother) was under 14 when she went overseas and "gave birth to obama" that it nullifies her US citizenship and thus causing barack to be a citizen of indonesia only. or something like that.

[Jaimey]

Does that work?  ...wouldn't she have to have given up her US citizenship?  I'm utterly confused by all this...and annoyed, but that's not unusual when it comes to politics...yeesh.

[lizbeth]

yea, I know. it's nonsense LOL

to be considered a citizen of some countries, you have to renounce your citizenship of your birth country. I guess indonesia requires this for anyone under the age of 14 or anyone that a <14 year old parents, but it's moot becuase obama's mother AND father were both american citizens. just becuase one parent may give up the status doesn't mean the other did.

nonsense, I say!
Post Merge: July 22, 2009, 11:10:24 PM
it's also moot becuase obama was born in the USA, LOL.


one of the funniest things that you have to believe to be a birther is that the people behind this were so smart, they even had the insight to put a birth announcement in the local hawaii paper.  

but, that is just another coverup, and it's actually the other daughter's birth annoucement or something (nevermind it says son) LOL

[Jaimey]

yea, I know. it's nonsense LOL

nonsense, I say!

I agree...heh.

[Janet_Girl]

The special term "Natural Born Citizen" is used in particular as a requirement for eligibility to serve as President or Vice President of the United States. Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution contains the clause:
"   No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.   "
Additionally, the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution states that: "[N]o person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." The grandfather provision of the Natural Born Citizen Clause thus covered the only exceptions to the natural born requirement for the first several presidents and vice-presidents, who were citizens at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, but had been born as British subjects before the American Revolution.
Although only dealing with the concept of citizenship and not necessarily natural born citizenship, the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides an additional source of constitutional doctrine stating that birth "in the United States" and subjection to U.S. jurisdiction at the time of birth, entitles one to citizenship:
"   All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.   "

Barack Obama (born 1961), 44th president of the United States, was born in Honolulu, Hawaii to a U.S. citizen mother and a British subject father from the Kenya Colony of the United Kingdom. Before and after the 2008 presidential election, the argument was made that he was not a natural born citizen. On June 12, 2008, the Obama presidential campaign launched a website to counter what it described as smears by his opponents,[49] including these challenges to his eligibility. The most prominent issue raised against Obama was the claim that he was not actually born in Hawaii. In two other lawsuits, the plaintiffs argued that it was irrelevant whether he was born in Hawaii,[50] but argued instead that he was nevertheless not a natural born citizen because his citizenship at birth was, in part, determined by the British Nationality Act.[51] The relevant courts have either denied all applications or declined to render a judgment due to lack of jurisdiction. Some of the cases have been dismissed because of the plaintiff's lack of standing.

Hope this might clear up any questions.

Janet

[tekla]

They be trippin.  If she was out of the country while under 18, then she was under the supervision of her parents, who were from Kansas or Nebraska, which is pretty American.  If after 18, then she was doing grad school work for a major US university, and had not renounced her citizenship, nor changed her address, and was still a citizen since she did not come back to grad school as a foreign student.  They are full of crap.

And very, very desperate.

I think the Dems are just stringing them along, letting them get as stupid in public as they can get (which, if you've been watching is pretty freaking crazy) and at the last minute (though they have already done it) put the BC out there again.

They need to read the law.

[NicholeW.]

Chris Matthews did that again on Hardball yesterday with some goober Rep. from Indiana. Trust me, these guys bring their own string, the Dems don't need to provide them with it.

[tekla]

What cracks me up is there is zero doubt that McCain was born in Panama, but they never raised this with him.  Oh, because no matter where in Panama he was born, its covered in the same way.

[NicholeW.]

What cracks me up is there is zero doubt that McCain was born in Panama, but they never raised this with him.  Oh, because no matter where in Panama he was born, its covered in the same way.

Actually I think it was brought up. And, yes, handled exactly the same way, especially since Daddy was an admiral or some such officer rather than a Kenyan national. That and those who brought it up weren't denizens of that Sane or insane thread you started. Kat!
Post Merge: July 23, 2009, 12:24:05 AM
Or perhaps they were. I think the Bushies brought it up back in 2000. Karl Rove, he might qualify.

[tekla]

Of course Bush and Cheney were residents of the same state at the time of election, which is against the Constitution.

[Tammy Hope]

Does that work?  ...wouldn't she have to have given up her US citizenship?  I'm utterly confused by all this...and annoyed, but that's not unusual when it comes to politics...yeesh.

the bit about her age was the law at the time. I don't believe it still is.

[Jamie-o]

That just means American at birth and since his mother is American, doesn't that automatically make him a natural born citizen? 

(btw...he was born in Hawaii, but some of his opposition refuses to believe that, if you aren't up on the ridiculous crap that gets passed off as news over here...)

Actually, the U.S. is one of very few countries in which having parents who are citizens doesn't automatically make you a citizen.  I've known U.S. military members who had their children while stationed overseas, and they had to apply for their children's citizenship.  Now, most of the time it is granted, but you have to be very careful about getting the paperwork in, and it still isn't guaranteed.  And yet, if an illegal alien crosses the border and has a child, that child is automatically a citizen.    Go figure.

And I believe the argument is that Hawaii was not a state yet at the time he was born. 

[Cindy]

I realise this is naive.

What is it about politics? The USA is in really bad shape (looking from Australia); has few friends, has strained forigen relationships to breaking point. Has crapped on forigen policy to make enemies out of friends, has a economic melt down, lousy health care (for the average jo). no wealth care, mental health policy of put them in prison. Captial punishment - to make more room for the previous. And people argue about someones right to run the mess. Gee there must be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Sorry, feeling very cynical

Cindy

[lisagurl]

The USA is in really bad shape (looking from Australia);

Then most places look bad in the media. That's entertainment. Australia has a host of problems including water, and those species it brought in that killed farming, they can not even feed themselves.

[ilikepotatoes]

The argument that Obama isn't a citizen come from racists who absolutely can't stand having a brown skinned dude running the country. Their isn't going to be logic in their argument.

[tekla]

The laws that bring new states in grant retroactive citizenship to all citizens of those states effective immediately upon statehood.  Remember, none of the Founding Fathers were born in the United States in that sense either. The first President born in the United States, after it became the United States was, I think Martin Van Buren (I seem to remember that about him, and since its about the only think I know about him, I'm thinking I'm right).

And Cindy, I agree, I've often thought that even wanting the job ought to be considered so insane as to preclude one from having it in the first place.

[NicholeW.]

The argument that Obama isn't a citizen come from racists who absolutely can't stand having a brown skinned dude running the country. Their isn't going to be logic in their argument.

I would tend to agree with this, certainly among the rank-&-file birthers. That first and then the fact he's a Dem who whooped their boy McCain and left the Pubs being shown for the bedraggled nonsensical rump-roasts that they are.

Any straw in the hurricane will do, evidently.

I'm not at all sure that the presentation of his birth certificate has done any good for most of this crew. It's been shown, been published, been signed-off on again by the State of Hawaii and they complain that there is no evidence he's a citizen and concoct these rather odd-assed scenarios they call "proof" that something is wrong, or maybe is.

Something is definitely wrong, but that resides in the few hundred thousand minds brains of the birthers. The congressmen who are playing this sludge appear to think they may find an "issue" to erode his support somewhere at the bottom of the bottomless pit of excrement.

American politics as usual. Play to the most absurd morons possible and try to build a fire. 

[Michelle.]

If I ever ask, "Just what do you bleeding heart liberal loony Obamamaniac nutcases mean when you say "wingnut?", PLEASE point me back to this thread.


Someone above mentioned memebers of the armed forces having trouble with citizenship being conferred upon there kids. You can add members of the diplomatic services and Americans living overseas in general to the list.

A bipartisian effort I would like to see, updating the Constitution so that this isn't an issue in the future.

Keep in mind this issue dogged both Obama and McCain in the 2008 election.

[NicholeW.]

Keep in mind this issue dogged both Obama and McCain in the 2008 election.

I suppose that depended on how often one was reading the Free Republic, Michelle.

I didn't notice either candidate with the Hound of the Baskervilles snapping at his ankles as he was running.

And the McCain bizness I think you'll find was made-of more in S. Carolina during the Pub Primary in 2000 than it was in 2008.

For about all but about 0.003125% of the people (that's a very generous 1 mil out of 320 mil) it's already been put to rest.