Susan's Place Logo

News:

Please be sure to review The Site terms of service, and rules to live by

Main Menu

Broad Shoulders and Narrow Hips!

Started by Myself, July 26, 2009, 12:53:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

finewine

Quote from: Leslie on August 02, 2009, 06:20:31 AM
[...]
I also find it interesting that many who post conflicting points of view seem to be resolved to hold to their opinion whether they are right or wrong.  Not just here but on many forums.  I really look at these places as a great way to learn more... So if someone says something that you don't think is right, why not Google or Yahoo, do some research, contact an expert and learn something new instead of holding onto an untruth or myth. Very often it's an opinion that is based on wrong or simply outdated information. What's the harm in saying "Wow I didn't know that!" Isn't that why we're all here? To learn?

The simple answer to this is psychology.  People are far more likely to dig their heels in on a position when challenged in a public (or pseudo-public) setting.  This is something diplomats, politicians, senior people managers etc. often get taught.

If you need to bring someone around, you need to discuss in a one-on-one setting ideally.  In a group meeting, a public committee or a forum, people just don't want to "lose face" by being wrong.  They'll argue strenuously for their point of view, even chasing down a point of secondary minutia just to establish some credible "correctness".

When the debate gets emotional, this amplifies the phenomenon because nobody likes to concede a point to someone who adopts a style of arrogant belligerence.

Also, as the default for most people is to assume that their perception of the world (or any particular issue) is fundamentally correct, that explains why this is so commonly observed.

The internet truly is flypaper for morons...and I'm not immune either (bzzz, bzzz) :)
  •  

Naturally Blonde

Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on July 31, 2009, 07:47:35 AM
The original body frame benefits them by having very little if no fat and along with it muscle.  So then the hormones work their magic on padding the edges and you get a nice feminine frame.

Sure beats out morbid obesity or some crappy body deal.

It might work for you hon but I've been on HRT for over 10 years and it hasn't worked yet for me. I'm pretty thin and try and keep fit and any fat goes on my belly even if I don't want it there!
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
  •  

Annwyn

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 02, 2009, 11:53:17 AM
It might work for you hon but I've been on HRT for over 10 years and it hasn't worked yet for me. I'm pretty thin and try and keep fit and any fat goes on my belly even if I don't want it there!

I'm in the same predicament as far as fat placement.  However, I was never tall nor thin, just short and muscular.  Obsessing over diet with trial and error and learning what gets your body looking best as far as activity or lack of activity has gotten me where I am; I've still got so far to go though.

Waking up and doing an ab routine right after brushing my teeth has helped enormously, as well as avoiding EVER "pigging out" and avoiding high sodium or prepackaged foods like the plague.  Genetic women put themselves through hell with cardio and dieting and laxatives, not to mention all the other cosmetic stuff, just to keep to standards.  It only makes sense that we should try just as hard if not harder.
  •  

Naturally Blonde

Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on August 02, 2009, 01:38:40 PM
I'm in the same predicament as far as fat placement.  However, I was never tall nor thin, just short and muscular.  Obsessing over diet with trial and error and learning what gets your body looking best as far as activity or lack of activity has gotten me where I am; I've still got so far to go though.

Waking up and doing an ab routine right after brushing my teeth has helped enormously, as well as avoiding EVER "pigging out" and avoiding high sodium or prepackaged foods like the plague.  Genetic women put themselves through hell with cardio and dieting and laxatives, not to mention all the other cosmetic stuff, just to keep to standards.  It only makes sense that we should try just as hard if not harder.

I try and do that but to be honest I looked better physically before I started on HRT. Yes, I was fairly thin before and now I have a pot belly. I've been on HRT for over a decade and the HRT is trying to make the fat but it seems to go for a male type fat distribution pattern. Before HRT I could easily control fat around the tummy but on HRT this is where the fat always only accumilates. I want to get the fat on my legs and butt but my legs are so thin you can see they are very boney. Also the ratio of the upper body is wrong compared to the lower ratio. So I am a bigger size upper body than lower body. Females are the opposite.

But I'm not about to give up just yet...
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
  •  

Nero

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 03, 2009, 05:37:49 AM
I try and do that but to be honest I looked better physically before I started on HRT. Yes, I was fairly thin before and now I have a pot belly. I've been on HRT for over a decade and the HRT is trying to make the fat but it seems to go for a male type fat distribution pattern. Before HRT I could easily control fat around the tummy but on HRT this is where the fat always only accumilates. I want to get the fat on my legs and butt but my legs are so thin you can see they are very boney. Also the ratio of the upper body is wrong compared to the lower ratio. So I am a bigger size upper body than lower body. Females are the opposite.

But I'm not about to give up just yet...

Hi Natural Blonde,
What body types do the other women in your family have? Some women can't gain weight on their hips. I was one. All my fat went to my stomach and breasts. If the rest the women in your family aren't hippy, this may be the reason.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
  •  

Annwyn

If you devoted yourself to cardio 2 hours a day minimum and held a mostly starch/veggie/lean meat diet then you'd see results.

Fat distribution is more determined by birth than by body chemistry, a fact all these wikipedia parrots with no formal medical education fail to admit in their spamming up the boards of the, "laws" of HRT and transition.
Your body is born with a certain fat distribution and the fat in your body naturally goes to those fat cells.  You can't kill those fat cells, you simply have more in your torso than anywhere else and thus will continue to have more there until they die.

Liposuction is an amazing way to kill fat cells, seeing as it removes them from the body entirely instead of merely shrinking the mass of them through diet and exercise.  The cost is 3,000-6,500USD.  I'd suggest getting a thorough one, and  maybe even another one a year later.  Most people I've seen who have had even one have a difficult time putting weight back onto their stomachs unless they're simply friggin outrageous with their eating habits.

It's something to think about.

--Ann
  •  

Myself

fat cells also multiply if they have to, if you can too much weight.
if too many cells are removed, more will grow elsewhere.

This can soemtimes lead to weird fat pattern
  •  

finewine

QuoteFat distribution is more determined by birth than by body chemistry, a fact all these wikipedia parrots with no formal medical education fail to admit in their spamming up the boards of the, "laws" of HRT and transition.
Your body is born with a certain fat distribution and the fat in your body naturally goes to those fat cells

To expand on this, the distribution of fat cells and the distribution of fat are subtly different things.

Imagine you have 20 buckets and 100 tennis balls.  The buckets represent fat cells, each capable of holding, say, 20 "tennis balls" of fat.

Now imagine you have a female "room" and a male "room", each with the same distribution of buckets.

The distribution of balls into those buckets doesn't have to be the same, of course, and that's the hormonal influence.  The balls are distributed in different quantities into different buckets between the two rooms.

Hence, hormones do make a difference to the distribution of fat, just not the distribution of fat cells,
  •  

Annwyn

  •  

Naturally Blonde

Quote from: Annwyn D'Fenwyr on August 03, 2009, 06:59:44 AM
If you devoted yourself to cardio 2 hours a day minimum and held a mostly starch/veggie/lean meat diet then you'd see results.

--Ann

That's my diet exactely and I see no results?
Living in the real world, not a fantasy
  •  

Annwyn

Then lower the starches.  Or tummy tuck.  Or talk to your doc bout adderall.
  •  

finewine

The abdominal midsection is a primary fat store and is one of the last to be reduced. You cannot "target" fat burning, say by doing abdominal crunches to slim the waist or leg-raises to slim the legs.

The metabolism works holistically across the entire body.  The only way to reduce fat is to ensure your calorific consumption exceeds your calorific intake.  Diet & exercise like Annwyn said.

However, as it's my day for analogies (hehe!), let me put it this way.  If the fat stores on your hips, buttocks and arms are small saucepans, your abdomen is a wok!  If you fill them full of fat and do exercise, you'll deplete them all at a similar rate but it'll take longer to empty the wok - that's why your pot belly is almost always the last thing to go.

Now, why is this?  Well, storing fat is a survival mechanism - our bodies are basically the same as they have been for a LONG time (long before Subway opened up on the street corner).  In days of yore, pre-civilisation and like with all wild animals, storing fat was an essential way to maintain an energy reserve when food wasn't guaranteed to be in plentiful supply.

There's no point storing fat in large quantities on arms and legs, as that is just extra mass to move, which burns more valuable calories...it also would affect your agility. The abdomen is the most energy-effective location to carry fat where it will get burnt the least  (yeah, sucks doesn't it) - and that's why the largest fat cell deposits are there.

Liposuction gets rid of the fat cells where it is applied, which means less fat can be deposited in that location.  Unfortunately it won't help unless you change your diet because the *same* amount of fat will still be laid down...just in different areas where you do still have fat cells.  So, if you lipo your gut and still trough the cookies, you'll end up with flabby elbows and knees.

The conclusion is simple - burn more calories than you ingest and instead of starving, use physical exercise to help raise the burn rate (starving actually promotes fat storage).

Eat more slowly too.  There is a surprisingly long latency with signals from an expanding stomach reaching the brain.  Take your time to savour each mouthful and you may well find yourself feeling a little fuller earlier.  Or, as Jo Brand said, "we get fat because this hole" (pointing at mouth) "is bigger than this hole" (pointing at backside).
  •  

Annwyn

About spot reduction:

I am a firm disbeliever of most of it.  However, decades of pro athletes, bodybuilders, and even my personal experience contradict it.  The people in the gym actually working out seem to have a slight disagreement with the lab nerds who're about as muscular as an 80 year old grandma.  I wonder who knows more of what they're talking about...

If you're fat, situps won't do the trick, or even do any good at all.  If you're incredibly slim and have a very thin layer of adipose tissue between you and your sixpack, doing some pilates will do the trick better than starving yourself.
  •  

finewine

hehehe...and of course pro-athletes etc. should have a high calorific burn rate to complement any spot reduction.  Find me long term lipo success on a couch potato! :)

Ooh that reminds me - ever seen the results of those stomach banding ops?  That's a drastic way to reduce calorific intake by simply shrinking the stomach to a teeny size.  I remember seeing a docco on one enormous fat bastard who had to eat defrosted "ice cubes" of pureed food (babyfood basically) after a stomach banding because anything more than that would rupture what was left.  It took months for it to swell to anything like a normal size and, by then, he had gotten into the habit of eating less.

Prior to the op, he was consuming up to 20,000 calories a day!  (40 pints of beer, 8 - yes, 8! - full entree sized curries, etc.).  You'd need a canary in a cage in *his* bedroom!  (And I don't even want to imagine how he wiped his nethers...he could barely reach around his own corpulent buttocks)
  •  

Myself

also eliminate carbs from your diet.
eat high fat diet mid protein very low carb.

if you eat high carbs, you burn the carbs and keep the old fat.
if you eat high fat, you store the new fat and burn the old one
  •  

finewine

That sounds like a perversion of The Atkins Diet.

With all due respect to Myself, I'd recommend against such a diet unless recommended and supervised by a qualified and accredited dietitian.  You're competing with the body's natural metabolic processes which can cause real problems.

I've seen this first hand with excessive fatige due to carb starvation, resulting in near collapse on stairs etc..  Fat is slow burn and can't keep up with rapid changes in energy demands.
  •  

shanetastic

Annwyn -

I love how everything turns into exercise / eating regimens haha. 

From what it looks like though, you've had amazing success with it and you've done training all your life so I don't see how I wouldn't believe you :]
trying to live life one day at a time
  •  

mmelny

Wow, the thread for short, young women with fascination for ideals!  I'll never be a swimsuit model, but the right clothing does wonders for concealing the less then traditional pattern of 'idealized femininity' that seems to predominate this thread.  And, the majority of 'genetic women' that are in my friend circle, and heck, see everyday in the street and at work don't follow those patterns, lol.  I guess that I'm just of a mind that one can't get obsessed about being shaped according to some ideal stick and paper, /barbie doll.   Doesn't hurt to try, nor be in good shape, go pilates and low carb!, *smiles*, but at some point you just have to live life and be you!  It's easier when one is very tall and has already made acceptance with the things that she cannot change.

Blah, *huggs*,
Melan
  •  

Annwyn

  •  

SarahFaceDoom

Quote from: Melan on August 03, 2009, 04:47:17 PM
Wow, the thread for short, young women with fascination for ideals!  I'll never be a swimsuit model, but the right clothing does wonders for concealing the less then traditional pattern of 'idealized femininity' that seems to predominate this thread.  And, the majority of 'genetic women' that are in my friend circle, and heck, see everyday in the street and at work don't follow those patterns, lol.  I guess that I'm just of a mind that one can't get obsessed about being shaped according to some ideal stick and paper, /barbie doll.   Doesn't hurt to try, nor be in good shape, go pilates and low carb!, *smiles*, but at some point you just have to live life and be you!  It's easier when one is very tall and has already made acceptance with the things that she cannot change.

Blah, *huggs*,
Melan

I said this too!!!
  •