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Why Do People Get So Wrapped Up In The Bible?

Started by Julie Marie, July 30, 2009, 02:37:15 PM

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Julie Marie

"Love thy neighbor as thyself."  It seems something so simple any human can understand it.  Is that how we shall define who is a Christian and who is not?

As I read and watch the pseudo christian leaders campaign against allowing me to marry the one I love, I wonder what is in their heart.  Would Jesus deny two people who love each other deeply the right to make their commitment one, with the blessing of God?  Not the Jesus I grew up learning about.

So how did these people, people who rally others in a call to action to deny loving couples the same rights they have, who demonize people who have done nothing to cause them harm, who lie to their followers, how can they call themselves followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ?  Are they so misguided they have lost sight of what Christ stood for?  Or are they the false gods Christ warned about?

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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tekla

Its a huge collection of books written over a rather long period of time by a bunch of different people, who like all people, had different agendas and world views.  Once you start picking and choosing, and everyone does, you can come up with just about anything, justification for or against everything.  The Bible is the religious equivalent of Legos, once you dump the box out on the floor, you can build just about anything you want from it, subject only to your dedication and vision.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Julie Marie

Since they keep talking about the "homosexual agenda" (and to them that includes TGs), should we call their agenda the Lego Bible Agenda?  It does have a certain ring to it.

Jules
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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tekla

The older term is 'cafeteria Christianity' where one walks down the line and takes some of this, not that, lots of this, none of that until the tray is full.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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cindianna_jones

Most people who use the Bible for political benefit have never read it. They don't even know what it is, where it came from, nor the historical events that put it together. That doesn't matter to them, for their beliefs are born in prejudice and not in faith.

When we talk of religious zealots, we are usually talking about people in positions of power who lead religious imbeciles around by the proverbial ring in their noses to gin up  hate. Those in power are using the most useful tool available........ fear combined with religious belief.  Not all who are religious are imbeciles.  Nor are they all led around by the nose.  Unfortunately, there are enough instilled with so much hate that those in power are endowed with more of the same.  It's not the Bible that is the culprit here. It is the part of the population who are afraid of us.  They are afraid that if we are given equal rights that their children will be infected somehow with some mysterious disease and join us.  And it has been this same pattern throughout history.  You don't think that we could put soldiers on the battlefield if we couldn't convince them to hate the enemy? If we taught them about the enemy's culture, their family life, their desire to just live like anyone else....... there would be no will to pull the trigger.

Fear and hate breads power. You don't think that these idiots drafting legislation or whining on the news that it's too expensive to provide health care for the unfortunate truly believe what they profess?  Of course not. They are simply abusing their power. "By their acts, ye shall know them." By definition, they are not Christian.

What we need to do is to continue to plod along. In just two decades since I transitioned, I have seen many significant advancements for LGBT rights.  I am very confident that there will be another voter initiative here in California in the next election where we will restore marriage benefits for all.  I think that we will deal with the fear. I think that more people than ever will support us and others who suffer all manner of society's indignations.

The key thing we need to realize is that this element in our society runs on fear and hatred. To return the same is unproductive.  We need  to understand that there are many good faithful people will support us if they see positive action from us. They will see us.  They will interact with us.  They will get to know us. They will then understand that we pose no threat.

Cindi
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lisagurl

Quotetheir beliefs are born in prejudice and not in faith

Their actions and thoughts are born of logic, facts and rational thinking.
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cindianna_jones

Quote from: lisagurl on August 03, 2009, 11:23:32 AM
Their actions and thoughts are born of logic, facts and rational thinking.

Care to elaborate?

Cindi
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lisagurl

QuoteCare to elaborate?


Beliefs and faith are not valid unless they are supported by facts.
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cindianna_jones

Quote from: lisagurl on August 03, 2009, 11:50:07 AM
Beliefs and faith are not valid unless they are supported by facts.

So, is this statement a belief or a fact?  ;)

I tell you Lisa, I get so frustrated by people who do ignore the facts.  I've had Fox News on while I've been browsing the forum this morning.  I can not believe the crap they present as "facts".  What a load of bull they dump on us.  I can't believe they have enough viewers to make money.  I tune in once in a while to make sure that the products advertised there don't make it to my shopping list.

I think that religion and science both are are traditional means to find the truth.  Religion lags science by decades or centuries in many  cases. In others, they don't lag at all..... for example, there seems to be no furor over in-vitro fertilization. You'd think that would be an absolute bombshell.  Nah....  But heaven forbid someone wants to cut off their you know what.

Still, I accept the fact that faith is an important part of many people's lives.  I know that it can be a great source of comfort for them.  I've seen it and I accept it. Who am I to deny them this "fact"?  The sheer numbers of believers is a fact by itself.  I'm not sure of the total implications of the number, but it is something interesting to ponder.

Cindi
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lisagurl

QuoteI can not believe the crap they present as "facts".

A fact is not what someone is told or believes. Science is not a fact unless you remove the scientist.  Read " Doubt is our Product" . It takes work to prove that things are facts. It is not a written word or TV or opinion. It takes much much more to get to facts. Many books do not expect you to accept their word. They provide many references to check out and those references provide many more. The world is full of manipulation, until you find the motivation behind any information, it is suspect. Even you own experience is only relative from your point of reference. You need other points of reference to check what you have experienced (think magic).

Post Merge: August 03, 2009, 01:36:51 PM

QuoteThe sheer numbers of believers is a fact by itself.

No it is just a number of people that say they believe. You can not believe what people say. There is a large number of non believers also this does not prove anything. As my mom once said " If everyone jumps off the bridge will you also?"
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finewine

QuoteI think that religion and science both are are traditional means to find the truth

Sorry Cindi, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one.  First of all, one needs to define what one means by "truth" in less slippery terms.   Is "truth" in this context "a reliable theory supported by observation", as per the scientific method, or something else?

As religion has a whopping great assumption underpinning any inquiry (i.e. the fundamental tenet of the religion itself), it is likely to run into conflict with scientific method sooner or later, as the latter requires observational evidence to support a hypothesis before that hypothesis can be promoted to viable theory status.
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lisagurl

Quoterequires observational evidence to support a hypothesis before that hypothesis can be promoted to viable theory status.

It also needs to be able to be duplicated by others that do not have the same motive as the first scientist.
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MaggieB

I began to write my position on faith and the Bible but it soon became too long to practically post here. I have said many critical things about the Christian church in this thread but I also still believe and the way I came to believe was because of revelation not study.   If you want to read my conversion experience it is posted in my blog.
http://www.bengco.com/KayBlog/?p=178

Maggie
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cindianna_jones

I too have written many articles on this subject in my blog.  One is titled something like  "Cindi's Creed" and then there is one about rational thought in there somewhere. 

Cindi
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Julie Marie

Quote from: Cindi Jones on August 07, 2009, 12:10:48 AM...and then there is one about rational thought in there somewhere. 

Cindi

When I'm in a discussion with someone who is "wrapped up" in the Bible, I think it's the lack of rational thought that bothers me the most.

Julie
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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