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Intelligence and transgender

Started by Deanna_Renee, August 19, 2009, 12:05:41 AM

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How would you define your intelligence?

MtF - highly intelligent (Mensa range)
29 (33%)
MtF - above average
22 (25%)
MtF - average
5 (5.7%)
MtF - below average
0 (0%)
FtM - highly intelligent (Mensa range)
9 (10.2%)
FtM - above average
4 (4.5%)
FtM - average
5 (5.7%)
FtM - below average
1 (1.1%)
Androgyne - highly intelligent (Mensa range)
4 (4.5%)
Androgyne - above average
4 (4.5%)
Androgyne - average
0 (0%)
Androgyne - below average
1 (1.1%)
none of the above
4 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 50

tekla

Don't most medical types have a MD, not a PhD?  That guy on the beach, trying to catch the last perfect wave of the day, that's the PhD in Philosophy I would think.  That person who knows what is really important.  Money is easy, perfect waves, or the perfect morning in Tahoe, the fresh snow sparking like diamonds on the mountains - that stuff is much harder to come by, and hence, to be valued more.

If you think you are smart - and face it, there are people who have made millions of dollars who are not near as smart as you are - then money is something that is always there, perfect virgin runs down KT22, only a few a year.  Everyone has to choose.  Money is infinite, your life is not. 


FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Steph

Quote from: tekla on August 31, 2009, 09:15:58 PM
Don't most medical types have a MD, not a PhD?  That guy on the beach, trying to catch the last perfect wave of the day, that's the PhD in Philosophy I would think.  That person who knows what is really important.  Money is easy, perfect waves, or the perfect morning in Tahoe, the fresh snow sparking like diamonds on the mountains - that stuff is much harder to come by, and hence, to be valued more.

If you think you are smart - and face it, there are people who have made millions of dollars who are not near as smart as you are - then money is something that is always there, perfect virgin runs down KT22, only a few a year.  Everyone has to choose.  Money is infinite, your life is not.

Ya the guy who came up with the "Pet Rock" really ticks me off LOL.  However doesn't the MD expend much if not more (Time and money) than a PhD?

You are quite correct you certainly can't beat "perfect waves, or the perfect morning in Tahoe, the fresh snow sparking like diamonds on the mountains" but for many it's going to take the cost of a plane ticket to get there ha, ha.

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

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  •  

tekla

If you live so far away from that, that you need a plane to get there, well, tough.

However doesn't the MD expend much if not more (Time and money) than a PhD?

No.
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  •  

Steph

Quote from: tekla on August 31, 2009, 09:41:57 PM
If you live so far away from that, that you need a plane to get there, well, tough.

Ya I guess it sucks to be me huh!  Ah but then I have the love and affection of a wonderful and caring man to share my life with so I'll save the plane fare and enjoy my life as it is.  Yep we both need money to get by, but what the heck, that's life.

However doesn't the MD expend much if not more (Time and money) than a PhD?

QuoteNo.

Oh I see! I bow to your wisdom, knowledge!

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

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  •  

tekla

#64
I would think that living where you want to live, where your happy, is the first thing a smart person gets.  Doesn't matter where it is, but if your going to be happiest being a surfer, you're a moron if you continue to live in Kansas, just as much as if you want to be a cowboy, LA ain't exactly the town for you.  Nether is New York.

Along those lines, even idiots know you have to make choices in life.  Is what you want to do more important that what you want to be?  Is your lifestyle more important than your life?  Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond?  Want to be an actor?  Try NYC or LA, or be content to do dinner theater and off-off Broadway (but not on the actual off Broadway) in Des Moines and find peace in that.

And remember, life is change - that's how your different from a rock.  What is critical to us at 25 might well seem trivial at 36 or 58, and vice-versa.  But what is timeless, has ever been thus.  Beginnings and endings, life and death, happy or unhappy - some we have choice over, others not, accepting what is, and what can never be, that's smart to me.

Comes a time, when you realize that perhaps more sunsets have happened in your life then your going to have from here on out.  That you can't ski the double black diamonds forever, and these runs, this year, they might be the last time you can kick it like that.  That bank accounts and college degrees are cool, but showing up for work for a job you love, in a place you revere, and having people who are just as happy to see you there as you are to see them, might well be priceless.  I've found that if not priceless, its certainly rare enough to be treasured.  Being smart is realizing that before it makes a difference, rather than ex post facto.

And all that may not even be intelligent, but it is smart, and smart and intelligent are not the same thing, in the way that as Frank said: Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best...

We each have to determine what is the 'best' for us, and go with that - all the rest, is just the rest.  Its not the other thing, it may not even be a part of it, most of the really 'intelligent' people I've ever met are fools, because with all that stuff, they can't figure out how to be happy, something even a lot of idiots get.  And if you can't get there, what's it worth?

What makes smart people smart, is not intelligence tests, or grades in school, or degrees, or bank accounts, but the real tests that everyone faces everyday, and how they choose their outcome in those things.  The person with worry etched on their face who will die early from being a Type A person, are they really smarter than the surfer who is 60 and has spent over 45 years of their life on the beach? 

Somehow I doubt it.  I do know darn well who looks better, who feels better and who does, and does not, need a little blue pill to still get it up.

I live my life to amuse myself.  And I'm pretty damn amused by it.  That's good enough for me.  I was smart enough to figure that out and be happy in it, and that's as smart as I'll ever need to be.  Given all I have, all I have had, knowing the beginnings and endings to the circle of life and coming to understand the joy of Beethoven's 9th and the immense sorrow of Robert Johnson's Hellhounds on My Trail, has been pretty powerful stuff, both in terms of knowing myself, but also in knowing other people on a real and profound level, and not just as accessories and accouterments to a faux life. The people who have taught me the most, were not the one like me, or the ones who liked me, but those who were just real, despite how I felt about it.

And I was smart enough to listen, even when I didn't much like what they were saying.







"I don't care whether I'm remembered. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of people who would like to forget about me as soon as possible, and I'm on their side! You know? Just ... hurry up and get it over with. I do what I do because I like doing it, I do it for my amusement first, if it amuses you ... that's fine. I'm happy that you'll participate in it. But, uh, after I am dead and gone, there is no need to deal with any of this stuff, because it is not written for future generations, it is not performed for future generations. It is performed for now. Get it while it's hot, you know? That's it."
Frank Zappa from "There Is No Need"

Oh I see! I bow to your wisdom, knowledge!

Is playing the fool supposed to be a tribute to your personality or just your wardrobe?  Med School is 3 years, plus a one year residency, or in some a 2/2, with half being classroom and half clinical work - either way, about 4 years after the undergrad degree.  A PhD is a Masters Degree, plus 2 more years of graduate credits, and a dissertation, so about 7 years vs. 4 years, after the undergrad degree.  7 is more than 4.  OK?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

V M

Truly, becoming well educated and landing a high paying job are accomplishments.

Finding true happiness and contentment is probably the greatest accomplishment of all

Some friends of mine found fame and fortune. But happiness somehow eluded them. It ate them up till it killed them.

There is nothing wrong with being successful and/or wealthy. It's how you handle it that makes a difference.

Learning to be happy is probably the most intelligent thing a person could do
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

tekla

Learning to be happy is probably the most intelligent thing a person could do

I wonder if you actually 'learn' it.  If that's not at the root of the over-thinking the problem that keeps so many intelligent people from being happy.  I think its just a choice you make every day when you wake up.

Really, if you wake up and think 'today is going to suck' and its just the everyday stuff, I'd think it time to get rid of that stuff and try other stuff.  What have you got to lose?
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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V M

Hmmmm, Probably everyone has their own idea of happiness.

Perhaps it's more about learning to find and make good use of that which brings you (and others) happiness
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

tekla

Well in that sense, people who know how to make themselves happy, tend to be pretty good at helping other people get there.  Unhappy people tend to breed the same in others.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

V M

The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

tekla

Well it's been said that everyone can make people happy, some do it by arriving, others by leaving.  Just make sure you're in the first group.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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V M

Now I'm wondering how long we can happily get away with high jacking the intelligence thread with philosophy before someone with a stinky butt jumps in  :laugh:
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

Steph

Quote from: tekla on September 01, 2009, 12:52:07 AM
I would think that living where you want to live, where your happy, is the first thing a smart person gets.  Doesn't matter where it is, but if your going to be happiest being a surfer, you're a moron if you continue to live in Kansas, just as much as if you want to be a cowboy, LA ain't exactly the town for you.  Nether is New York.

True but I imagine that there are some morons in Kansas not in a financial position to pursue their dreams.  Too bad we can't pick where we are born.

QuoteAlong those lines, even idiots know you have to make choices in life.  Is what you want to do more important that what you want to be?  Is your lifestyle more important than your life?  Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond, or a small fish in a big pond?  Want to be an actor?  Try NYC or LA, or be content to do dinner theater and off-off Broadway (but not on the actual off Broadway) in Des Moines and find peace in that.

Yes indeed, even the idiots, but those stuck between rocks and hard places can be somewhat restricted in choices causing things that would make them happy to become merely dreams.

QuoteAnd remember, life is change - that's how your different from a rock.  What is critical to us at 25 might well seem trivial at 36 or 58, and vice-versa.  But what is timeless, has ever been thus.  Beginnings and endings, life and death, happy or unhappy - some we have choice over, others not, accepting what is, and what can never be, that's smart to me.

And so do I.

QuoteComes a time, when you realize that perhaps more sunsets have happened in your life then your going to have from here on out.  That you can't ski the double black diamonds forever, and these runs, this year, they might be the last time you can kick it like that.  That bank accounts and college degrees are cool, but showing up for work for a job you love, in a place you revere, and having people who are just as happy to see you there as you are to see them, might well be priceless.  I've found that if not priceless, its certainly rare enough to be treasured.  Being smart is realizing that before it makes a difference, rather than ex post facto.

Again I agree.

QuoteAnd all that may not even be intelligent, but it is smart, and smart and intelligent are not the same thing, in the way that as Frank said: Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best...

We each have to determine what is the 'best' for us, and go with that - all the rest, is just the rest.  Its not the other thing, it may not even be a part of it, most of the really 'intelligent' people I've ever met are fools, because with all that stuff, they can't figure out how to be happy, something even a lot of idiots get.  And if you can't get there, what's it worth?

What makes smart people smart, is not intelligence tests, or grades in school, or degrees, or bank accounts, but the real tests that everyone faces everyday, and how they choose their outcome in those things.  The person with worry etched on their face who will die early from being a Type A person, are they really smarter than the surfer who is 60 and has spent over 45 years of their life on the beach? 

Somehow I doubt it.  I do know darn well who looks better, who feels better and who does, and does not, need a little blue pill to still get it up.

I live my life to amuse myself.  And I'm pretty damn amused by it.  That's good enough for me.  I was smart enough to figure that out and be happy in it, and that's as smart as I'll ever need to be.  Given all I have, all I have had, knowing the beginnings and endings to the circle of life and coming to understand the joy of Beethoven's 9th and the immense sorrow of Robert Johnson's Hellhounds on My Trail, has been pretty powerful stuff, both in terms of knowing myself, but also in knowing other people on a real and profound level, and not just as accessories and accouterments to a faux life. The people who have taught me the most, were not the one like me, or the ones who liked me, but those who were just real, despite how I felt about it.

And I was smart enough to listen, even when I didn't much like what they were saying.

What a boring life it would be if everyone agreed :)






Quote
"I don't care whether I'm remembered. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of people who would like to forget about me as soon as possible, and I'm on their side! You know? Just ... hurry up and get it over with. I do what I do because I like doing it, I do it for my amusement first, if it amuses you ... that's fine. I'm happy that you'll participate in it. But, uh, after I am dead and gone, there is no need to deal with any of this stuff, because it is not written for future generations, it is not performed for future generations. It is performed for now. Get it while it's hot, you know? That's it."
Frank Zappa from "There Is No Need"

Oh I see! I bow to your wisdom, knowledge!

Is playing the fool supposed to be a tribute to your personality or just your wardrobe?  Med School is 3 years, plus a one year residency, or in some a 2/2, with half being classroom and half clinical work - either way, about 4 years after the undergrad degree.  A PhD is a Masters Degree, plus 2 more years of graduate credits, and a dissertation, so about 7 years vs. 4 years, after the undergrad degree.  7 is more than 4.  OK?

My personality of course, I can't see how my wardrobe, if one could call it that is of any consequence?  I've never mentioned it.  Strange.

-=[LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

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  •  

tekla

I got a thing for harlequin I guess, that and hats with bells on them.

And I think that people often tend to underestimate the importance of geographical placement in terms of being happy. Some things you can only do in some places, and not every paradise is heaven on earth for everyone.  I have a very close and dear friend who turned down a great job in Hawaii and choose to live in Bemidji Minn. habitually one of the coldest places in the US.  For her, it was the right decision, though I'll never understand it, but I'm a breed beach babe/sun goddess and I like sun, surf and sand - snow, not so much.  She seems to love -40 below zero, and I want temps that never dip below 45 unless I have skis on.

I think a lot of people who are miserable where they are, would find a very different life in a more liberal atmosphere.  Or perhaps in a more metropolitan/cosmopolitan area where they would stand out less, and have far more changes to meet other people like themselves and hence, feel less alone.  But big cities are big scary places and I know well they are not for everyone.  The pace kills some, the sheer scope of temptation does away with others, and there are people who really want to be that big fish in a small pond, and that ain't swimming in LA or Manhattan then.

What I think, and remember I started this by saying I was not smart, not even close, and pretty happy to be dumb at that - ignorance is bliss and all - is that intelligent people tend to think things to death, and often are still thinking when the rest of us have done got on our little way.  They carry burdens for years because they can't stop thinking about them, they carry such things long after everyone else has put them down.  Long past the point of anyone even caring anymore.

See, why does everyone want to think they are 'above average' (when, I'm sure, most of the evidence in their life would suggest otherwise)?  Because it makes them important.  If they have above average intelligence, then their values/notions/thoughts/feeling, well, all of those things (produced by their above average intellect) must be above average also.  In some very fundamental way, being above average makes them better.

The truly happy part about being stupid is that you never figure out who those people you're supposed to be better than are, and soon, you forget to care. 

And not caring is sheer bliss.  Because it means you never have to carry the weight of the world on your shoulders.  Because it means that you know you can hop the J car out to Ocean Beach and watch the sunset, because the world is going to keep on turning just fine without you.  And whenever the sunset is done, that big old world is still going to be there, its not going to sneak away from you while you're watching the waves.

It means that transitioning is a choice that effects you, and not a whole lot more, one to three other people at the most.  There is no society to worry about, no culture to destroy, just a matter of how you want to live your life, not much different than moving to Long Beach to surf or Tahoe to ski. 

And the sheer brilliance of being dumb, is that you can always use the three best words in the English language.  Either, "I was wrong" or "I don't know" depending on the moment.

I often wonder why most of the very intelligent people I've meet wind up often being far too stupid to quit (either when they are ahead or behind).  Then I figured it out.  They can't admit that they were wrong.  They are too smart to be wrong.  Being wrong is for those under average people, who, to date on this post, I'm the only one to self identify as.   But if you start out wrong, its easy to admit, easy to change, and because you're too stupid to care, admitting your wrong and going off in another direction does not matter.

I've often thought - because I'm an idiot and get everything wrong - that the real meaning of the story of Jesus is that God came down and became man, and then we killed him in a most horrible fashion - I mean just think of that, of course God is dead, we killed him, WE KILLED GOD.  Yet.

Yet the next day.  The very next day after we killed god, the sun rose in the East and set in the West.  People fell in love, and people fell out of love.  Babies were born, old people died, rivers still flowed to the sea, and life went on.  Just like nothing had ever happened.

And so, if we can kill god without any real ramifications, think how much less your life matters.

So do what you want to do, its not going to make any real difference.  And if you think it is, you're way overthinking it.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
  •  

Steph

Quote from: tekla on September 01, 2009, 10:56:22 AM
I got a thing for harlequin I guess, that and hats with bells on them.
Somehow I don't see you dressed as harlequin although I will admit the picture would be amusing.

QuoteAnd I think that people often tend to underestimate the importance of geographical placement in terms of being happy. Some things you can only do in some places, and not every paradise is heaven on earth for everyone.  I have a very close and dear friend who turned down a great job in Hawaii and choose to live in Bemidji Minn. habitually one of the coldest places in the US.  For her, it was the right decision, though I'll never understand it, but I'm a breed beach babe/sun goddess and I like sun, surf and sand - snow, not so much.  She seems to love -40 below zero, and I want temps that never dip below 45 unless I have skis on.

I think a lot of people who are miserable where they are, would find a very different life in a more liberal atmosphere.  Or perhaps in a more metropolitan/cosmopolitan area where they would stand out less, and have far more changes to meet other people like themselves and hence, feel less alone.  But big cities are big scary places and I know well they are not for everyone.  The pace kills some, the sheer scope of temptation does away with others, and there are people who really want to be that big fish in a small pond, and that ain't swimming in LA or Manhattan then.

I think that this can be seen with TS as well.  I would imagine that post-ops frequently find themselves in a flux.  They have endured and achieved much yet the place they called home is no longer that place. Of these there no doubt would be valiant souls willing to take the risk of a move to achieve happiness.  Yet there would be those who are at their limit and are willing suffer their lot in life.

QuoteWhat I think, and remember I started this by saying I was not smart, not even close, and pretty happy to be dumb at that - ignorance is bliss and all - is that intelligent people tend to think things to death, and often are still thinking when the rest of us have done got on our little way.  They carry burdens for years because they can't stop thinking about them, they carry such things long after everyone else has put them down.  Long past the point of anyone even caring anymore. .......

Somehow I don't buy the notion that TG's are more intelligent, well no more intelligent than any other cross section of society.  1% way at the bottom, 4% below average, 4% above average, 1% way at the top, and the rest of us just average Joe's or Josephine's as the case may be.

For me common sense trumps.

-={LR}=-
Enjoy life and be happy.  You won't be back.

WARNING: This body contains nudity, sexuality, and coarse language. Viewer discretion is advised. And I tend to rub folks the wrong way cause I say it as I see it...

http://www.facebook.com/switzerstephanie
  •  

omega1251

What does this have to do with anything? I think these kinds of polls for causality are ridiculous.

So say you found that transexualism and intelligence are positively correlated. So what, you could also say that transexualism and the number of eyelashes someone has is also positively correlated... these kinds of statistical analysis are good for recreation only...
  •  

Miniar




"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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omega1251

That's what I'm saying... therefore this poll doesn't really have any meaning other than for entertainment purposes.
  •  

Miniar

That's already been established. And the first post doesn't suggest causation either.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
  •  

KYLYKaHYT

Quote from: Deanna_Renee on August 19, 2009, 12:05:41 AM
I am trying to determine if there is some correlation between transgendered people and intelligence. In reading studies about the possible genetic explanations for transgender people, there is some indication that there is a developmental difference in the formation of the brain in the transgendered. There seem to be certain regions in the brain that connect the two hemispheres providing a kind of duality that non-trans people lack.

I have noticed that among the people I have interacted with here, there seems to be a distinct tendency for above average intelligence. I don't know if there is a scientific correlation (or even any studies) bearing out this hypothesis, but I am just curious - it could explain a lot to me. Personally, I am somewhere between 1 & 2 (just short of Mensa).

Comments?

Deanna

LOL WUT?
ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ
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