At what point are you legally a gender in the US?

[Nero]

hey guys and dolls,

I'm just starting to dig through all the legalities on this. But it's starting to make me dizzy. So, could someone simplify - at what point am I legally male in the US? after the gender on my driver's license has been changed? or what else is there?

[Syne]

The moment you have a letter, from a surgeon, stating that you have had irreversible surgery. With that you can change the DL and Social Security and other documents (birth certificate). but remember you will only be recognised as you identify for as long as it is convenient for them (by them I mean the .gov). do something outlandish like wanting to marry someone of the opposite (opposing, if you will) gender in the wrong area and suddenly they want to say you are not who and what you are but something else entirely. YMMV, get the letter and change everything you can and as quickly as possible.

[DawnL]

You require gender surgery to effect a legal gender change in the eyes of the government--specifically the Social Security Administration.  You need to show a letter from a surgeon that you have undergone gender changing or gender corrective surgery.  I am more certain of this for MTFs than I am for FTMs but I am reasonably certain the law is equal in both directions (unfortunately, the cost of surgery is not).   Some states will then issue a birth certificate in your new gender but others (notably Ohio) will not.  I had to go to Social Security twice, once for the name change and then again after GRS to change my gender marker.  The original gender remains in the file.

State laws vary but in most states, even if you've had a gender change on your drivers license, you will be treated as your birth gender by the police and medical facilities.   

Rules regarding which bathrooms you can use vary widely. 

This really is a tricky question depending on where you are and who you're dealing with.

[Natasha]

Re: At what point are you legally a gender in the US?

The moment you have a letter, from a surgeon, stating that you have had irreversible surgery.

some states will let you change your gender marker without grs but if something happens, say you get arrested, have an accident, you will be treated as your birth gender as dawn said.  in the end, it all comes down to holes & poles.

[Syne]

I know some MTF who got their letter after their BA and used it to change all of their documentation. Usually just stating irreversible surgery and not just GRS is enough. YMMV depending on the idiots you end up dealing with at the various state and federal agencies.

[Mister]

You are legally male in the US after you change your sex w/ social security. 
Post Merge: August 29, 2009, 12:41:05 PM

The moment you have a letter, from a surgeon, stating that you have had irreversible surgery.

Um, what?  No, you have to present that letter to social security.  It doesn't matter if you've had the letter for ten years.  You're not legally male until you change your status with the federal government.
Post Merge: August 29, 2009, 11:42:23 AM

State laws vary but in most states, even if you've had a gender change on your drivers license, you will be treated as your birth gender by the police and medical facilities.   

Also not true.

[aisha]

bureaucracy, what can be more pointless?

when you realize you are whatever, when they look at see whatever, that should be it.

[Debra]

I read that some states allow that a doctor's note during transition but w/o GRS will at least get it on your driver's license. Is that true?

[LordKAT]

some states don't even require a doctors note

[MaggieB]

The SSA is a key element in the gender change and they have changed their computer forms to require that a letter from a surgeon is presented.  They didn't copy my letter nor did they ask exactly what kind of irreversible gender assignment surgery I had.  I have heard that some hot dog clerks have been known to demand specifics and then to decide if they believe the surgery is proper for gender change or not. 

The PA birth certificate was easy to change for me.  The same letter and court documents with a form from the web site and a small fee got me a new gender and name on a new certificate. 

The DMV in California has a form that I used to change my name and gender on my DL.  It only required a signature of a physician stating that I had completed my transition.  They have changed it this year to make it a bit more stringent only giving a temporary license. I got a standard license.  Check the Transgender Law Center website for details.  They have good documentation on the other procedures too and they are not only for California.


The hardest document to change is the passport.  They required my SS and DL and legal name change and birth certificate all to be consistent so I could get a new passport with my legal name and gender.  My application was refused at first when I sent it in using the SSA web site forms.  They claimed I used the wrong form but the web page always produced the same form based on the questions it asked.  So I decided that it was best to go to the Post Office and do it in person.  That was potentially embarrassing but the clerk was amazing.  It cost more too but it worked. 

My results were unusual and relatively easy.  I was lucky, some have a really hard time of it.

Maggie

[FairyGirl]

The hardest document to change is the passport.  They required my SS and DL and legal name change and birth certificate all to be consistent so I could get a new passport with my legal name and gender.  My application was refused at first when I sent it in using the SSA web site forms.  They claimed I used the wrong form but the web page always produced the same form based on the questions it asked.  So I decided that it was best to go to the Post Office and do it in person.  That was potentially embarrassing but the clerk was amazing.  It cost more too but it worked. 

My results were unusual and relatively easy.  I was lucky, some have a really hard time of it.

Maggie

eek I hate to hear that- I travel out of the country frequently (I'm overseas right now in fact) and a valid passport is imperative. I'm filing for my legal name change next week when I return which is easy where I live, but as I was born in TX I understand it requires an act of God to even get them to consider changing the birth certificate and even then it's a crap shoot. I do already have an up to date passport- perhaps when I have a surgeon's letter along with my current passport that will be enough?

[Julie Marie]

Yes, the SSA requires the surgeon's affidavit before granting a gender change.  For MTFs that means vaginoplasty.  I'm pretty sure for FTMs it means a mastectomy.

In Illinois you can get your gender changed on your DL without the affidavit when you get your name change done.  I did it and so did several friends I know.  But if you want your birth certificate changed you have to have the surgeon's affidavit.

And if you want the gender changed on your passport, you will need the affidavit for that too.  Passport services have the same requirements as the SSA for both name and gender change.

When you get your name change done make sure it isn't listed as an AKA (also known as).  If anything, it should be FKA, formerly known as. 

Julie

[MaggieB]

eek I hate to hear that- I travel out of the country frequently (I'm overseas right now in fact) and a valid passport is imperative. I'm filing for my legal name change next week when I return which is easy where I live, but as I was born in TX I understand it requires an act of God to even get them to consider changing the birth certificate and even then it's a crap shoot. I do already have an up to date passport- perhaps when I have a surgeon's letter along with my current passport that will be enough?

I too had a valid passport but they required that a new one be filed for but the old one must be sent in with the application.  They do send all materials back. 

As for exactly what surgeries are counted as gender changing, they don't ask that but the surgeon must state that he or she has performed irreversible surgery to alter gender characteristics.   The letter need not state the exact medical description.

The clerk at the SSA glanced at my letter and in a few clicks it was done then handed it back to me.  I had gone there before when I changed my name and tried to change my gender too but they refused to change the gender marker without seeing a letter.  A dialog box comes up asking for the surgeon's info.  I am pretty sure that the clerk didn't even add his name.   He just had to see the letter.  That was it.   I did this procedure in February of this year.

The passport did require all the forms so without a new birth certificate, that could be an issue but I don't know if they will change gender with just a letter or not.  Again, they do not specify the exact medical procedure be listed on the surgeon's letter.   

This document outlines the current state of the Federal agencies policies.  You can see that they don't have a cut and dried policy or strict guidelines.
http://transgenderlawcenter.org/pdf/Federal%20Policies%20or%20Practices.pdf

Maggie

[FairyGirl]

Thanks Maggie, I appreciate the info