More aguement fodder.

[heatherrose]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?

Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?

Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?

Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?

Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?

What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?

Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?

[Tammy Hope]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?

Not particularly.No one ever doubted i was a guy but I don't hunt or fish or play ball or  any of the stuff that the typical redneck guy around here do

Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?

Not at all.

Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?

Just an ordinary obscure dude.

Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?

Nothing.

Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?

The only thing I did and do that seems "unladylike" to me is being a baseball fan and being overly analytical. I don't want to come off as sexist but for my own personal view of what I would like to be like, I'd prefer to be a LOT more "gentle" than i am and a lot less ....there's not a good word...calculating? I don't mean that in an evil way lol.

What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?

The only thing that falls in that catagory for me is the baseball thing and I seriously doubt that would have unfolded the same way

Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?

[/center]

oh HELL yeah

[tekla]

The only thing I did and do that seems "unladylike" to me is being a baseball fan

You ought to go to a professional baseball game, "Baseball Annie" is not a recent deal.  Lots of women, who like being women, love baseball.  And I know a few who can pitch so fast that you'll never hit it.  Underhand at that.

[Janet_Girl]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?

Married three times, had four children. 
Trained as an auto mechanic and worked in the field. 
Drove 18 wheeler for a year. 
I have managed a retail chain outlet, with30 employees.

Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?

Some of them were uber-masculine. 
Auto Mechanic, Truck driver.

Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?

Blend in mostly.
Never was one for sports, except hunting,
I loved to go bow hunting.

Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?

Auto Mechanic and Retail Manager in the
Auto Replacement Parts industry.

Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?

I would love to be back in the Auto Parts Industry as a Manager.
And there are women managers.

What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?

Had I been female body, I would have been a "Mother" most likely.
But had I went to college early, ether female bodies or early transition,
I would most likely when into the IT sector. 
I really like programing.

Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?

Simple.  In a Heartbeat.  Except of my kids.


Janet

[Tammy Hope]

The only thing I did and do that seems "unladylike" to me is being a baseball fan

You ought to go to a professional baseball game, "Baseball Annie" is not a recent deal.  Lots of women, who like being women, love baseball.  And I know a few who can pitch so fast that you'll never hit it.  Underhand at that.

Oh I know - it's really got more to do with how I approach my fandom than just being a fan.

Obsessing over stats and analyzing trades and potential trades and all that "team management stuff" that goes beyond just watching some guys play ball.

[K8]

I did pretty well as a pseudo-man.  Once I loosened up enough to act a bit effeminate I did even better.

I was drafted into the Army during Viet Nam.  That wouldn't have happened to me as a woman.  I really disliked the Army but did OK (well, so-so).  Most of my jobs (other than tank commander) I could have done as a woman.

I was stationed on a ship for five years.  That wouldn't have happened as a woman when I started, but women were on the ship before I got back to shore duty.  I enjoyed my sea duty (mostly ).  I probably wouldn't have ever gone into the service as a woman, but it really helped me develop as a person and am grateful for the experience.

Other than those things, I've worked mostly in offices, plus some surveying (all-male at the time) and some other tradiitonal male jobs, but I never felt I had to prove my masculinity.  I wasn't all that sure I had much of it, anyway, and wasn't about to try to prove something that didn't exist.

I really would have liked to transition earlier - like at about age 2 - but I wouldn't trade my life experiences for a chance to transition earlier.  They have made me what I am now, and I like who I am now (mostly ).

- Kate

[sd]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:
I'm still working on it, but I will answer anyway...

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?
I thought I did pretty well, I accomplished quite a bit, but there were certain times that I clearly failed.  More than few questioned me about my sexuality, and thought I was a bit strange or different. I assume they still felt I was male.

Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?
I have been a janitor, gardener, auto mechanic, aircraft mechanic (military), bicycle mechanic, and truck driver. I would say yes, they were overly masculine even if I didn't always treat them as such. The more masculine, the more my mind and body rebelled on me though.

I learned early on that being feminine wasn't going to go over well, so I did all I could to just blend and not stand out at all. This went so far as to barely ever change my appearance so as to not draw attention to myself even.

Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?
If anything, under performing. I was always mr. sensitive.

Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?
Were there things I should have been more proud of, yes. Did they mean much to me, no. Peoples perception of "ladylike" differ though.

Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?
Very little. Again, depends on your definition of ladylike. My mother has powertools and was/is into musclecars, so my idea may be skewed.

What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?
Quite high.
I avoided many things feminine entirely, not only to hide, but also because I knew I might enjoy them too much and thereby blowing my cover.

Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?
Yes, but it was unheard of at the time, and in some of the places I grew up in, dangerous as well.

[Shana]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?
Quite well to the outside world as far as it went.


Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?
Only security work. Everything else I could have done as either a man or a woman and been just as successful.


Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?
For the area and people I associated with I suppose I blended in fairly well.


Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?
I suppose my marksmanship, and learning woodworking and mechanics from my grandpa and my dad.
Experience has shown that they would have never taken me under their wings like that had I been a girl.

Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?
No. Things have changed. What at twenty to thirty years ago would have been very unusual pastimes for a woman are now only quirky, but not considered that unusual.

What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?
Quite hi. Had I been a girl, my mom would have loved to have taught me sewing, crocheting, and other little crafts. Neither of my sisters had or have any interest in these things and my mom has commented on what a waste it was that she didn't know I was interested..

The other obvious one as Janet wrote would have been to have children. When I was in my teens I knew I would never "father" children and couldn't have children of my own, so I resigned myself to being childless. The older I have gotten, especially after surgery, the more this weighs on my heart. But I do have three lovely nieces and a nephew to spoil..

Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?
If I had been born in the late 80's-90's I think I would.
Having been born in the 60's? No.. The experiences I have had and the learning I have had to accomplish to get where I am have been invaluable.  And what was available to us medically in the 80's as opposed to today is the difference between stone age and the space age. I like the space age..

[Kay]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?
=Not very well.  It led to more isolation than immersion.
.
Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?
=Teaching was my initial career, so not so much.
Most of my jobs since then have been more service related,
so again, not so much.
.
Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?
=I never really blended in very well, so I always tried to
steer clear of the spotlight.
.
Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?
=Nerdy?  Yes.  Unladylike?  No.  Most were pretty gender neutral.
.
Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?
=No.
.
What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?
=Most of my activities are pretty gender neutral.
.
Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?
=I would.

[K8]

Hey Laura, about you being a baseball fan...

I recently redid my garage.  I've always wanted it painted like a room in the house and neat, but dirty enough that I can still use it as a garage.  As I was finishing I put up some posters - motorcycles and a boat (five years sea duty) - and felt a bit uneasy because it seemed like such a guy thing.

I talked about my unease with two different cis-woman friends and both said something like: Oh, I know lots of women who do stuff like that!

I've always believed that there's a lot wider range of things we can do as women than as men.   So stats and trades are great - you'll impress the guys with your knowledge while they're trying to look down the front of your dress.

- Kate

[Bellaon7]

yes i would definately prefered to have been able to transition earlier. i was in my early 30's before i could bear to accept the truth to myself. i thought that accepting myself was hard, now i find myself at war just to exist, let alone complete transition. i've truely gone mad & no longer dare hope for a somewhat normal life. i'm just playing out my hand...

[heatherrose]

Playing out your hand is the fastest way to lose.
When you "think" you have nothing, if you are a
player better than the other players, sometimes
you bluff. How good of a player are you?

[tekla]

The winners don't 'play' they know the odds, balance the risks, and go from there.  Winners are aware that every hand is not a winning hand, but you can't win if you don't play, so, you calculate, assess, and choose what the best course of action is.

So every step is not a great leap forward, some are staggered, some are even a bit back - for balance - but you keep your eyes on the prize.

[Bellaon7]

Playing out your hand is the fastest way to lose.
When you "think" you have nothing, if you are a
player better than the other players, sometimes
you bluff. How good of a player are you?

i'm very bad at bluffing, hate gambling, & am way too far into my truth to cut & run. i'm not simply commited, i've no intrest in hiding & am way too far gone to pretend. 
Post Merge: September 13, 2009, 09:49:34 PM

The winners don't 'play' they know the odds, balance the risks, and go from there.  Winners are aware that every hand is not a winning hand, but you can't win if you don't play, so, you calculate, assess, and choose what the best course of action is.

So every step is not a great leap forward, some are staggered, some are even a bit back - for balance - but you keep your eyes on the prize.

well, there you go, i could not have said it any better, well done!

[noir]

I wish I could have transitioned earlier in my life, such as in my pre-teen years, or younger, but what can be done about that? It couldn't have been helped. I've seen a few online friends go completely insane. They transitioned later in life, so, I'm determined to have transitioned completely by 25.

[Bellaon7]

I wish I could have transitioned earlier in my life, such as in my pre-teen years, or younger, but what can be done about that? It couldn't have been helped. I've seen a few online friends go completely insane. They transitioned later in life, so, I'm determined to have transitioned completely by 25.

girlfriend, u go give em hell! & if that aint enough, than give em a little more, u can do it & u have friends behind u all the way, even if u dont learn their names.

[heatherrose]

i'm just playing out my hand...

i'm very bad at bluffing, hate gambling, & am way too far into my truth to cut & run. i'm not simply commited, i've no intrest in hiding & am way too far gone to pretend.

Good for you. Sounds like you have got it under control.

Tekla,

Well said. I was trying to say
"When you think you are out of options,
there is more than one way to skin a cat"

[Deanna_Renee]

For those of us who have transitioned "late"
meaning, thirty five years of age or older:

How well had you been able to immerse
yourself into your societal role as a male?

Well, still winding up for transition at 47. I have done a decent enough job at posing as a 'guy' all of these years. There has been no obvious (to my face at any rate) issues with me being believable as a 'guy'. I have fought hard for so long to convince myself that I was a 'guy' and try to avoid acting too female. (denial)

Do you consider the lifestyle you choose (vocation,
personality...) to have been uber-masculine?

Did you merely blend in or would you consider
your performance to have been "over the top"?

No, barely masculine, perhaps but nothing uber about me. All of the jobs I have held in my life have been jobs that are often held by women as much as men, so there is nothing that my job would require 'man skills' to do. Personal wise, that's a different story. As far as relationships have gone, there has been nothing male about it, then again nothing female either. I have never been able to grasp the concept of dating, sex, male/female relationships - I have always felt way out of synch in those areas. As a result I have been very much a loner all of my life. In fact I often claimed that the song "Lonesome Loser" written about me.

Are there things which you were able to accomplish
as a male which you are proud of, things which
society might consider unladylike, which you found
satisfaction in being able to accomplish?

No. I think everything I have ever done, could just as well been done if I was a girl/woman. Maybe not to the same degree, but there has been nothing particularly male accomplishment.

Do you feel less of a woman because of the things you
were able to accomplish and perhaps may still enjoy doing?

I only feel less of a woman from denying my femininity for so many years not because of the things I've done. There are things I could have done better if I was, and acted like a woman. There are things I did/accomplished because I presented/posed as a 'guy'.

What do you feel the chances are that you may have become
involved with an activity which you now may enjoy if you had
been born female bodied or been allowed to transition early?

Hmm... that is a hard one. If I had born correctly or had been able to transition (with today's technology) early, I honestly can't say whether I would have made the same choices as I did. Though many of my career choices had been influenced by women, so I may likely have still done them. I think if I had been born female or transitioned early, that I may have gone further than I had in my different roles, due to the (presumed) fact that I would have been better adjusted and happier in my body/mind than I have been. Instead of feeling trapped and out of sync, suffering from exceptionally low self esteem and hating myself and my life, I would assume I would be a lot happier and more proud of my accomplishments and may have pushed myself further.

Given a choice would you trade your life experience to
have been able to transition in your teens or twenties?

My gut answer is HELL YEAH! I think life could have been so much better had I started life earlier as a woman. But, I don't know if I would have had the same appreciation as I do today. Like Kate, the experiences I have accumulated over the years have made me who I am today. I am very certain that I would not have the friends and acquaintances that I have today, if I had done this 30 years ago. I also don't know if I would be happier or not. Also, like Shana pointed out, back in them dark ages (60s - 70s) the results were far short of what they are today. I think my answer would have to be now or sometime in the past several years. But, if I'm going to be given a choice to go back and transition 30 years ago, then I should also have the choice to back and have been born a GG in the first place.

Neither of which can be done, so I am content with finally being on the road to womanhood - body, mind and spirit.

Deanna

[tekla]

I may have gone further than I had in my different roles, due to the (presumed) fact that I would have been better adjusted and happier in my body/mind than I have been. Instead of feeling trapped and out of sync, suffering from exceptionally low self esteem and hating myself and my life, I would assume I would be a lot happier and more proud of my accomplishments and may have pushed myself further.

My impression, understanding (both personal as well as professional), and life experiences tell me that the people who accomplish the most are never better adjusted, but perhaps worse.  Nor are they happier - in fact, its discontent that keeps them pushing for more.

[Deanna_Renee]

I may have gone further than I had in my different roles, due to the (presumed) fact that I would have been better adjusted and happier in my body/mind than I have been. Instead of feeling trapped and out of sync, suffering from exceptionally low self esteem and hating myself and my life, I would assume I would be a lot happier and more proud of my accomplishments and may have pushed myself further.

My impression, understanding (both personal as well as professional), and life experiences tell me that the people who accomplish the most are never better adjusted, but perhaps worse.  Nor are they happier - in fact, its discontent that keeps them pushing for more.

That's a good and very valid point Tekla and it is all moot anyway. There is no way to go back and change things to test whether I would be better or worse off if I had changed anything along the way. The past is in the past and the future will always be in the future. The only we have the power to change is right now. We can make decisions now to affect what decisions we are faced with in the future, but that is still only changing the now.

I will (try) to stop dwelling, dreaming, wishing and hoping to change the past and be happy right now - because I am. 

Deanna