Wholistic Feminism

[Natasha]

Wholistic Feminism

http://radicalbitch.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/wholistic-feminism/
by catkisser
9/6/09

The violence done on the self esteem of women by the patriarchy is almost so universal it is often hard to grasp it's full extent.  It spreads from economics to political organizational to religion and philosophy...and the underpinnings of all of those and more.

As long as feminist women use "oppression heiarchies" as the model to understanding all this, we lose.  As in total thermonuclear war, the answer is quite simple, the only way to win is not to play.  Personally I feel it is no accident that history is barely taught today in our schools and ancient history, when covered, rewritten completely to serve the political agendas of the patriarchy.

[tekla]

Isn't the world spelled Holistic when used in that sense? 

[Julie Marie]

I don't think not playing the game is going to make a difference unless you play in a different ball park.  But first you have to build the park.

Women enter a working world controlled almost completely by men.  How can not playing benefit them?

Almost all organized religions have male leaders who call the shots.  How can not playing the game help there?

Politics?  Mostly men.  Sports? Outside the players, most women's sports are owned, coached or dramatically affected by men.  No field comes to mind that is controlled mostly by women.  And if you aren't bringing home the bacon, someone else is paying for the food going into your mouth.

Unless you have your own bat, ball and baseball diamond, you'll be playing by the rules established by others.

Julie

[tekla]

A lot of what is said is either wrong, or unproven.  Statements such as socialized medicine, social security, Medicare, foodstamps and Welfare, worker's comp, green movement, ecology.....these are all reflections of a Goddess awareness, though, oddly enough, those laws for the most part were written by men, passed by men, and at least in the beginning administrated by men.  Rachel Carson, responsible for so much of the modern ecology movement would credit biological science for the holistic perspective, not the goddess.

And again, Female logic give us "socialized medicine", the concept of the commons for communal raising and sharing of food resources, the idea that many hands make lighter labour.  Though, its at the root of the earliest civilization in Assyria and Egypt, nether of which were particularly matriarchal.

This is mostly seeing what one wants to see and making up the rest.

[Julie Marie]

This is mostly seeing what one wants to see and making up the rest.

No, this is mostly living in the male world, being an integral part of it, seeing how it works from the inside, participating in it and then walking away from it, into the female world.  It gives you a whole new perspective.  You ought to try it! 

Julie

[tekla]

I think it has more to do with looking at history within the context of its own time, rather than viewing it through a lens of our own political and cultural outlook.  People did not create the ancient civilizations and societies to conform to some modern paradigm, but for reasons of their own, which when seen in that light, they become something very different in most ways.

I well understand the need to create a usable past, but for the most part, those arguments fail when put into the context of the time being studied.

[jennifer jane]

Quote "You can find male logic in a lot of women and female logic in a lot of men.  The difference is in style and gross numbers.". How true! I think it defines so many of us here; I think this must be part part of the anguish of trying to live as a male and having a woman's heart, regardless of what our physical bodies tell us. The rest? Well, it cold be open to debate ... but on the whole, maybe we can agree with:

The logic of men is domination, the logic of women is cooperation.  This basic principle is clear throughout human history.  In political terms male logic yields monarchies, theocracies, dog eat dog captialism.  Female logic give us "socialized medicine", the concept of the commons for communal raising and sharing of food resources, the idea that many hands make lighter labour.  In theological terms male logic give us gods sitting in judgement and handing out vengence and punishment while female logic gives us universal divinity, Gaia, understanding of the interdependence of all life, ecology.  Male logic gives us subdue the earth, rape it's resources for our own immediate gain while women's logic gives us the sense that we have an obligation to future generations and finite resources need to be preserved..

What follows, seems to be mostly "politics": take away power for from the men; power to women. Can we say, in all honesty, that when women come to power they will be less manipulative, more considerate and generous than men? That "power corrupts" has become a cliche from overuse, but it's so true: the sweet privileges with very little accountability; financial security for life and the endless opportunities for even more gain ... liberal or conservative, male or female, patriarchy or matriarchy, whatever -- it's so easy to forget ideals!

Here's a mischievous thought: we could have a system of government with three chambers. One made up entirely of men; the other, of women. These would have joint power of a presidency, the judiciary and representatives of the people ... of course, the rows would be bloody and constant. So, the third chamber would be composed entirely of  transgendered (men and women) of gays and transvestites. Able to understand both sides, without privileges and minimal pay this chamber would have the power of arbitration, of resolving disputes. 

JJ

[tekla]

Very Westerncentric at the very least.

[jennifer jane]

Very Westerncentric at the very least.

It is, indeed. We are so silly about these things. It's just as bad as homophobia, transphobia, or any of the other dumb assumptions we make based on our Western, often (but not always) particular version of religion -- and clean forget about other cultures present and past that have completely different points of view. I think even "anthropocentric" is foolish, but each to their own.

jj

[transheretic]

Frankly I'm surprised this essay was even picked up here since it has zero trans focus.
As for western centric viewpoints, I spent part of my childhood in India and most of my adult life studying ancient civilizations and theologies from a non western, non Abrahamic viewpoint.  I'm surprised it got even a single comment here.  My viewpoints are anything but ethnocentric (that's the specific word from within anthropology)

This is an entry level essay on an entirely different way of viewing the world....and I personally live what I write about.  As for the variant spelling of wholistic as opposed to holistic, it was done deliberately as part of reinforcing the entire point of the essay.

[Shana A]

Frankly I'm surprised this essay was even picked up here since it has zero trans focus.

Discussions of feminism are appropriate here.

Z

[tekla]

Hey, we're discussing Tiger Woods in another thread, and doomsday in yet another, perhaps we could combine them and have a Tiger Woods Doomsday - but 'round here, we're nuttin' if not diverse.

[transheretic]

I wouldn't know that Tekla since I only come here basically when something I wrote has been linked and I follow back the link.  I don't read this board beyond that.  Some of my positions have been out and out banned from discussion here so it seems pointless to delve more deeply.  I don't push into places I feel unwelcome.

Many years ago I wrote an entire series of articles tracing the transsexual priestesses within the Goddess religious traditions of the ancient world.  It was done for several reasons, one being no one else seemed to even research it before me and to  counter the idea that transsexuality was a modern medically caused phenomena.  Like Merlin Stone and others before me I found immediately when going past the prior writings on ancient history, much was openly ignored and tossed off to the side that radically changes the way one sees ancient civilizations.  I could give an introductory reading list if anyone was interested but my essays on the subject then and now are mostly ignored by the various trans communities.

My future writing will be much more focused on the position of women throughout the ancient world as my research has never stopped and won't until I draw my last breathe.

[Shana A]

I wouldn't know that Tekla since I only come here basically when something I wrote has been linked and I follow back the link.  I don't read this board beyond that.  Some of my positions have been out and out banned from discussion here so it seems pointless to delve more deeply.  I don't push into places I feel unwelcome.

As of a few weeks ago, I'm the new News Admin at Susan's. Discussion of differing opinions is welcome here, as long as we can remain civil. It is not our policy to censor anyone. Topics were banned in the past because of violation of TOS, not because of anyone's ideas. Your voice is welcome here!

Many years ago I wrote an entire series of articles tracing the transsexual priestesses within the Goddess religious traditions of the ancient world.  It was done for several reasons, one being no one else seemed to even research it before me and to  counter the idea that transsexuality was a modern medically caused phenomena.  Like Merlin Stone and others before me I found immediately when going past the prior writings on ancient history, much was openly ignored and tossed off to the side that radically changes the way one sees ancient civilizations.  I could give an introductory reading list if anyone was interested but my essays on the subject then and now are mostly ignored by the various trans communities.

I've read your articles and greatly appreciate your research into ancient roles of trans people and spirituality. Personally speaking, my gender journey has been/is a spiritual transformation.

My future writing will be much more focused on the position of women throughout the ancient world as my research has never stopped and won't until I draw my last breathe.

I look forward to reading your future writings!

Z

[transheretic]

Zythyra,

I understand and appreciate you welcome my voice here but past actions by other moderators and members and even the enforced definitions of the place tell me otherwise.  A whole body of my essays/blogs were deleted from this section reducing my own membership level from comments/replies to them to the non-functional level.

I had to ask my prior account be deleted because I was being email harassed by a member.  At this point in my life, after a fairly long lifetime of delving deeply into it and processing the discovery of what was done to me as an infant I feel I have a pretty good grasp of trans issues and they hold almost no interest for me beyond immediate effects on my own life by the antics of others.  Typically, I am being called TG by some who adopted my writings now because I called them out on their blatant homophobia, specifically against lesbians.  It's most tiresome.  You'll notice I've never ventured out of this section in my comments this time around and won't in the future.

Susan's place, Susan's rules...I get that but those rules leave me unwilling to do more than occasionally comment on what is said here about what I write about.

Tekla, I get it, you disagree with everything I write, point made.  You should offer more than "I say you are wrong" however, that  borders on the obnoxious.

[Constance]

The logic of men is domination, the logic of women is cooperation.

If this is true, than I am a woman and not a man.

Also, as a polytheist, I've run into many stories of vengeful goddesses. My matron, Pele, is one such vengeful female deity.

Furthermore, there are many Christians (including Christian clergy) who openly reject the concept of Original Sin. I know; I'm married to one such clergy person who works with many others.

[transheretic]

Jennifer.....

This is most assuredly not about taking power from men and giving it to women.  The so called Matriarchies of the past were actually egalitarian, the primary difference from a social organizational view springing from all the attendant differences between a matrilinear descent model and a patrilinear one.....figuring relationships from the mother's line or the father's.  Egalitarian societies can appear downright matriarchal given the extent patriarchal thinking dominates the modern world.

That one simple difference makes all the difference in the world how you view the world.  Goddess awareness spread throughout the ancient world along with the tools of the work of women....it is a direct, traceable relationship that can be followed by spinning and weaving techniques, the origins of horticulture to agriculture, the common ownership of the means of production as by the priestesses of Sumeria, the origins of the Minoan culture, in which some major breakthroughs in discovery have been made recently.  The understanding of the socialital organizations of Egypt are currently undergoing wholesale revision based on re-examination of writings long ignored and the trade relationships between the Minoans and the Egyptians.   I go back to the advanced cultures of  neo-lithic ancient Anatolia as a starting point that took me to the Nile and Indus valleys, to the north in Germany and the British Isles to Crete and Thera and beyond tracing the spread of Goddess consciousness.  I lecture on the subject.

Goddess awareness/consciousness is not a sex dependent way of seeing the world and if you limit your understanding that it is a globally different way of understanding the world to gynocentric, you will totally miss the point.  The vast bulk of human history was one of Goddess consciousness.

[FairyGirl]

Many years ago I wrote an entire series of articles tracing the transsexual priestesses within the Goddess religious traditions of the ancient world.  It was done for several reasons, one being no one else seemed to even research it before me and to  counter the idea that transsexuality was a modern medically caused phenomena.  Like Merlin Stone and others before me I found immediately when going past the prior writings on ancient history, much was openly ignored and tossed off to the side that radically changes the way one sees ancient civilizations.  I could give an introductory reading list if anyone was interested but my essays on the subject then and now are mostly ignored by the various trans communities.

My future writing will be much more focused on the position of women throughout the ancient world as my research has never stopped and won't until I draw my last breathe.

I would love to read that series, is it available online somewhere?

[transheretic]

Dave......first I'd argue that christians are polytheists and that Goddess worshipers were always the monotheists.  This comes from a lifetime of observations about christianity from the outside.  Original sin?  The entire Adam and Eve story is an allegory about a jealous mountain god opposing the Mother Goddess, who always is accompanied by wild animals, predators, lions, hawks, etc. Who never gave physical birth but at the roots was always, in the beginnings, a female identified hermaphrodite.  All the symbols in that story are Goddess ones and the major flaws were that Yahweh wished humanity to remain ignorant and lied while the serpent, another Goddess image, told the absolute truth and wanted humanity to gain immortality and wisdom (Sophia in other early christian traditions)   I shake my head in wonder that no one seems to understand what is so clearly stated in that story.

Do not mistake me for some Dianic white lighter.  I view the Goddess as the sum of all things, that the fundamental rule of the universe is life must eat life, that thus the Goddess stands in a place of balance between light and dark and so do I as Her daughter.
Post Merge: September 08, 2009, 12:01:44 PM
Fairy Girl, if you follow the link back to my blog, from the home page is a link in the sidebar to my historical essays.  I am not allowed to put direct links here, sorry.  I cannot access my profile to change and add a sig line either, not sure why.

[FairyGirl]

thanks! I think you have to have 15 posts before you can add a signature.