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An intro of sorts...

Started by colormyworld, September 06, 2009, 02:53:45 AM

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colormyworld

Ok, so I'm not exactly new here, some of ya'll might have seen me around here as a supporter/pain in the rear, whatever you want to call me :P BUT, this time I'm back, not only as a supporter, but as another person dismissing the gender norm.

Short intro:
About 3ish years ago, I was at one of those difficult points in my life, had just graduated HS, was starting college and trying to figure out the rest of my life. One thing was for sure, I was ready to start a fresh new life surrounded by new people (for the most part). Well after some soul searching and internet surfing, I was pretty sure I was FTM, as at the time, I was having terrible body issues, and everything I had come across had fit me so well. Then I 'snapped out of it' and decided I was crazy to think that. I'm a girl, I'll never be anything else, I'm just a bit of a tomboy! The extremeness was just a phase! Well if the extremeness was just a phase, it was one that came back every so often.. After awhile of going through these 'phases' of varying extremities ("cute tomboy chick", "I'm just me think what you want.", and "OMGosh, I hate these freaking curves, why was I not born a boy!?!") and having a near breakdown, I spilled my guts and wrote my whole life story on another forum, realized I wasn't a freak, and found that I fit closest into the Androgyne/Bigender category.

So in short that's me, I've hid it from everyone (including trying to hide it from myself) for soo long, but I'm finally starting to get comfortable with it myself, and hopefully soon I'll gain the courage to be able to admit it to others around me. That will come with time though, I'm happy to be strong enough to tell *anyone* even if I'm starting out telling people who I've probably never seen in person before!


And if anyone wants to read the super long intro/ whole life's story/ spilling of my guts, grab something to drink and get comfortable! haha

Please forgive me if I jump around a lot and don't make total sense, but I don't know where to start or how to go about this so I'm just going to start spilling everything....

First off, I'm 20 years old, my birth certificate says I'm Female, and even though I try to stay away from labels I believe I fit into the bisexual or pansexual category or as of lately the "why does it matter who I'm attracted to, since nobody is attracted to this anyway" category, but alas..

To start from the beginning, growing up, the friends that I played with most were all boys, and I liked it that way. I loved playing outside, and I would always be riding my bike with the boys. One of our neighbors even commented how I was so cute, and I kept right up with the boys on my bike, despite being a girl and being shorter then all the boys, even the ones that were my age. And at the time I wore dresses quite a bit. I also did play with dolls and barbies and other girly toys too, but I also had to have hot wheels cars and tracks for them, I loved hot wheels cars!! I even had a big rug with roads and parking lots and buildings for my hot wheels cars. Also looking back I had "penis envy" (obviously didn't know what that was at the time) I was jealous of the boys that could pee standing up. I wanted to be able to do that like the boys.


(this is where I ramble on about clothing for way too long, you can skip this if you'd like)

I wore dresses a lot when I was little (and my mom likes to remind me all the time how I *used* to wear dresses, and why won't I now?) but I also liked wearing 'boys' clothes, too like race car shirts and pants so I could run around easily. I think my clothing was pretty typical of a little girl, I liked to wear casual dresses, but pants and shorts made it easier to play and run around and still be a proper girl and not go showing my undies to the world LOL After age 9 or so I wouldn't be caught dead in a dress unless it was for a special holiday like on christmas or easter. By age 12 ish I wouldn't wear a dress at all, they were stupid and pointless! Right now, I own exactly one dress, wore it exactly two times, that was a few years back in high school. I had to dress up for a recognition day, then I had to walk across the stage at the assembly wearing a dress and wedge heels in front of the whole school (luckily I didn't fall I don't know how I made it through the day let alone walking up the stage steps without falling). I was quite embarrassed wearing the dress in the first place (it made my mom really happy though, and she was proud I won an award and stuff) and going up on stage in front of all the senior class and their families was nerve wracking enough on it's own, but being seen by so many people while wearing a dress?? I felt like I should have been part of a freak show!! The only other time I wore that thing was at graduation, and it was under the graduation gown most of the time anyway, so I didn't feel so awkward this time. (I'm not exactly sure why it was mandatory for all the women to wear dresses under their gown, but it was dress or no walk, so I had no choice that time) I did feel okay enough wearing workout type shorts under the dress. made me 'feel' like I was wearing pants, but it doesn't change the fact that I still LOOK like I'm in a dress because I am.. Same for my uniform at work, I'm required to wear a skirt every day to work, so I wear cotton leggings (you know those things preppy girls wear under super short denim skirts, LOL don't know how else to describe them) so at least the FEELING isn't that of a skirt. Whenever I have my skirt on without the leggings, it just feels sooo weird! I don't like it! I feel too exposed and it's just.. odd. I hate that they won't let me wear pants to work, I would be much more productive if I had pants, it's so much easier to move in pants!! I would be happy to follow the male dress code (black slacks, white button down shirt with a collar and a tie, black shoes) and the accessories allowed is a bit different, so I'd have to get rid of my earrings, as they don't allow men to wear them.


(okay, I get back to the point about now..)

I was pretty content being a girl growing up, I was no different than the boys except I couldn't pee standing up, I could do anything they could, life is good, right? Well yes, until *dun dun dun* puberty started... even before puberty actually set in, just talking about puberty, I wanted to constantly hide! In 5th grade, they split the boys and girls up and we all had the "this is what's going to start happening to your body" assembly, and parents got to come and sit next to their growing children and all that jazz... I don't think I looked at my mom the whole time, I just didn't want to face reality, didn't want to have this happen to me, hoped it wouldn't. I just sat there with my hands in my pockets, listening to the lady at the front talk about periods and hair growing places that you had to remove it from, and breasts and uteruses and acne and all that icky stuff I just didn't want to hear! Oddly enough, I was more comfortable with the health teacher talking to the whole group and listening, than I was of hearing all the stuff my mom said to me afterwards. I didn't want to hear it from my mom at all, and I would do whatever I could think of to get away from her when she would talk about it. Then one day, I was laying on the floor watching TV or something and my mom says "I think you're developing a little figure!" and was all excited about it. I on the other hand wanted to cry, I'm sure I did cry later on. I hated that this was happening to me. A few weeks later, we were shopping at Walmart, picking up whatever we happened to need, and my mom decides that I need some new socks, because half of mine have holes in them, I was always rough on socks. Well socks are right down the isle from... bras... I didn't think anything of it, they were always close to those things, it wasn't a big deal.. until mom says "You know what, you're really starting to develop, I think you should start wearing a bra." Can I just die now?? This can't be true, I can't be developing ANYTHING, especially not... breasts. I didn't want to believe it, but I knew it was true. I couldn't hide it any longer no matter how much I tried. Once I noticed that those things were starting to grow, I tried my best to hide it by wearing loose fitting shirts and sweaters over them. Surely if I hide them nobody will notice them, but that wasn't the case.. my mom could tell I was growing boobs and there wasn't anything I could do about it. My mom made me pick out a bra I liked, err.. well I didn't like any of them, but I had to pick one that I didn't hate. Then when we got home, my mom wanted me to model it for her, and see if it fit okay. Model this thing for her? Surely she has got to be joking if she thinks I'm going to put it on at all and see myself it in, but she wants to see me in it? This is not going to happen! After about 20 minutes of staring at this thing laying on my bed, I reluctantly tried it on. It fit, I think. It was on me, so it must fit. I immediately took it off though and shoved it in the back of my drawer. Then I laid down in my bed and 'fell asleep' until my mom knocked on the door and asked me how it fit. "It's fine. I took it off though. I'm tired and I want to go to bed." I wasn't tired, but I did want to go to bed. When I fall asleep, I don't have boobs, I don't have to wear a bra I'm just me and I'm happy. I didn't want to face my mom and answer any more questions about that thing. When I woke up the next day for school, my mom suggested I wear my bra for the first day. NOOOOO how can I wear that thing to school?? Surely everyone is going to notice it under my shirt and know that I'm wearing it! I don't want that! I decided that if I wore overalls, maybe nobody will notice. I wore it one day and decided I didn't want to wear that thing again. So I didn't wear it anymore, I couldn't bring myself to wear it. Once in awhile I'd try it on by myself in my room, to see if I liked it any more, but I never liked it. Never. Unfortunately even though I refused to wear the bra, my breasts continued to grow, and my mom confronted me and told me that I really needed to wear the bra now. (according to my measurements and the help of a book I had, I was already at an AA cup and I was only 11, I hated them at the time, but I'd give anything to go back to that!) After a bit, I got used to wearing the bra, and actually liked wearing it opposed to not wearing it, because then I didn't feel any jiggle in my chest and I could almost forget the breasts were there! I got to the point where I could accept the breast thing. Everything was okay. By that point, all the other girls in my classes were wearing bras, so I didn't feel like such a freak. Still didn't like having to wear one, but at least I wasn't the only one that had to wear one. (although many other girls were actually excited about it) Then.. puberty got even worse... I got my first period.... I had always cringed when my mom would ask me if I had any signs of getting a period, but I could always answer "no" and that was it. What was I supposed to do?? This can't be happening to me!! No way can I just go up to my mom and tell her I got my period! No way, I can't do that!! But how was I supposed to take care of this?? I'm bleeding all over (okay so looking back it wasn't bad at all the first few times, but it was MASSIVE at the time) I decided that if I rolled up toilet paper and just kinda stuck it there, nobody would know. It seemed to work, and all I had to do was make sure I switch the toilet paper a lot. I told myself that next time this thing happened, I would tell my mom I had just gotten it... then next time came around and I still didn't want to tell her, same for the time after that.. and fast forward to age 17... I never told my mom. If she asked about it, I just continued to tell her that I had never gotten it. I'm not sure if she totally believed me, but she seemed to believe me, and I didn't have any 'products' as I was just using toilet paper, so she continued to believe what I told her. She finally made a doctor's appointment for me, thinking something was seriously wrong. Even after she told me that she had made the appointment, and she was really worried something was seriously wrong going on, I still couldn't muster up the courage to tell her I had gotten it years ago... I couldn't let those words slip past my lips, even though I knew she was very worried about me. I felt bad, but I just couldn't do it! The whole car ride to the doctor's office(which isn't very far, but seemed to take forever) I had that song from RENT in my head.. the part that goes "I should tell you..." it wouldn't leave, I was shaking and nervous, I knew I *had* to tell her, I was about to go to the doctor's and have all sorts of tests done to find out what was wrong with me! I can't go through all that, not to mention put my mother through that, and whoever had to do these tests to find out what was going on, 'cause I knew I would be putting them through a huge pain trying to find something wrong that didn't exist. It was killing any other thought, I knew I had to say something, but I just couldn't do it! Not until I was about to go into the doctor's room, like the second I was about to go in there, I told my mom "I got it before" I was frozen as soon as I said it. She was confused, "Got what?" "period" "When?? Why didn't you tell me??" "16, I dunno". I knew that was a total lie, but I didn't want her to think I'd been hiding it for as long as I did.Not only was I trying to convince her I had never gotten it, 'cause I didn't want to talk about it, I was really trying to convince myself I had never gotten it. I don't even remember what age I got it, 11? 12? 13? I blocked it out of my memory completely. I do remember a few months after I had gotten it, thinking, "I wish they could just put testosterone into my body instead, then I wouldn't have a period and I wouldn't have boobs anymore. I'll just be a girl that looks like a boy." At the time, I had no idea what transgender was, or what FTM was or that it was even possible to put testosterone into your body if you didn't produce it yourself. As soon as I found out that you CAN take testosterone, I was like "Wow.. I was half right, if I would have taken testosterone then I wouldn't have a period, It wouldn't have gotten rid of my boobs", but I was probably only a B cup by that point anyway, I could have handled that (I was a C cup by 8th grade, and now I'm a DD... B would be GREAT compared to what I have) So I could have stopped then and started to become more of a boy! I wouldn't have had to worry about getting rid of hair in odd places 'cause boys can keep that hair if they want and it's fine! I wouldn't have a penis like boys who were born boys, and I would still have to have surgery to have a flat chest, but I could have gotten rid of all those years of stress and anxiety!

(Now we get to the point of the post)

Here's where I get really confused though... despite the above, (I bet a few of you were about to say, "DUH, you're FTM! Congratulations!") I don't think I'm really FTM... I *hate* my boobs, one day I will be having a breast reduction, but until then, I'm okay with them being there, as long as I can't feel them move too much. I wear a minimizer bra, and then a tight sports bra or one of those tank tops with the "built in shelf bra" thingo, and I have the jiggle down to a minimum. I still hate that I can *see* them there all the time, and no clothes fit like they should around the chest, but I would be perfectly fine if I had up to a C cup. They wouldn't be as in the way and the jiggle would be even less. I think I could like myself with C cup breasts. I still cringe when my period comes (but I've gotten the diva cup, and it's a life saver, only need to empty it in the morning when I wake up and at night before I go to bed.) Otherwise I forget that I have it. I have it under control. I can deal with it. I wish it was gone, but I make the best of it and it is fine. (Okay crazy chick, you're a GIRL, a girl with a lot of problems, but a GIRL none the less)

It's not as easy as that either... (are your heads spinning yet??) While sometimes I'm happy being a girl, there are certain conditions of 'girl' I would like to change, such as my breasts, but I'm fine being seen as a GIRL, it doesn't bother me, SOMETIMES I just really wish someone would see me as a guy. Sometimes I really just wish I was a guy. When I think of my perfect self, I think of a stereotypical gay guy. That's what I would really love to be seen as. I feel that is REALLY who I am. I want the body and bone structure of a male. I want the little things I just can't have. I want them more than anything and it kills me!
I wear men's jeans, unisex flip flops (they came with both men's and women's sizing, and I've seen them on both genders) and t-shirts or polo shirts. I'll also wear capri style pants or men's shorts. (NOOOO short shorts, they have to at least come to my knee, I don't show my legs) I also do wear women's jeans as long as they don't fit super tight, and I'll wear women's t shirts as long as they aren't tight fitting, but I prefer men's t-shirts overall for the way they fit me.
Many times, I'm quite happy being a girl in men's clothes or a girl in mixed gender clothes, or a girl in tomboy clothes, whatever, but other times I just REALLY want to look like a GUY in men's clothes, a GUY in mixed gender clothes, a GUY in girls clothes. I'm happy with the clothes I wear, I wear whatever I like no matter what section of the store I buy it from as long as it fits! I just hate that sometimes I want to be seen as a guy and that will never happen with my body, I have a girl's body, I have the bones of a girl, I have the fat of a girl, I have the skin of a girl, I have the EVERYTHING of a girl except for the brain... or maybe my brain is of a girl, 'cause sometimes I'm perfectly happy being seen as a girl. I just don't know anymore! I know that I would be *happier* being seen as a feminine GUY, then as the tomboyish girl that I'm seen as now (and sometimes I'm fine with it, sometimes I'm not). I know there's a fine line between the two of them, because I know if I was born in a boy's body I would probably wear pretty much the same clothes! I don't wear makeup, but I do like having my nails painted. I like having nail polish no matter what I'm wearing, if I'm in the mood to wear all men's clothes, I still wear nail polish. Crazy thing is, I want to be the guy with nail polish!

I've thought about transitioning, because I know I'd be happier seen as a guy.. but I know I'll *NEVER* pass as a guy. Well maybe if I dressed extremely masculine, but I don't want to be seen as a super masculine guy, I want to be seen as a feminine guy! I know that will never happen because I'd still want to dress the same as I do now, and even without the breasts, I still have female bones, female hips, smallish hands (but they are the same size as my dad's, but I always thought they were small, maybe not though), TINY feet (I wear a 4 mens, or 6 women's, If I like any shoes I see in the men's department, you can't find a 4, I can wear boy's shoes though, but sometimes they really look like they should be on a little boy!) Also, I know this is going to sound shallow, but it's how *I* feel about myself.. I know if I tried to transition, I wouldn't see myself as a male. I can't change the bones I have, if I had chest surgery, I would have horrible scars and it wouldn't look like a genetic man's chest, I wouldn't have a penis, or a 'normal' one anyway. I will forever see myself as a girl unless a miracle happens. Nothing is going to change THAT, and I know I'll never be seen as the guy I would like to see myself as!

Funnily enough though, on OTHERS, I see their target gender completely. If I see an FTM on youtube or something, I don't think "He has girl bones, he had his breasts removed, etc." I see "MALE", same for MTF, only the other way around. Why can I see it on others and it's completely fine, they look great, etc., yet on myself it's just not going to cut it. I keep thinking, maybe I don't want it enough, it's just maybe a phase, but I don't know. And, it's not like I always want to be a boy, sometimes I'm perfectly happy being a girl, but when I'm not, I really badly want to be a boy. There's very little in between. I just don't know. I think if I had been born a boy I would be happy being a boy all the time, I never have any feeling like "I really want to be seen as a girl" but maybe because I was born a girl, sometimes I just suck it up and go with it. I'm so lost..

Also, for the most part, my family is happy with their strange daughter. My dad was very sad when I cut off my long, almost down to my hips curly hair at my chin a few years back and never grew it long again. It'll get shoulder length and I just can't stand to deal with it any more so I cut to about my chin, maybe a little shorter, in long layers. I think my hair is overall in a female style, but my brother's hair is almost as long as mine and a very similar style. Only difference is, my brother's hair is long, my hair is short. It's all about the gender stereotype.. grrrr... Also, I have this one pair of jeans (I love them, they're really comfy) that are men's jeans, and when my mom found them in the was she didn't know who they belonged to. She hates those pants with a passion, and says "Why do you like to wear those, they're boy's jeans, they weren't made to fit a woman's curves" Well they fit fine thank you very much, pants don't have to hug your body, they sit fine on my hips, they don't fall off of me, I don't see the problem. Once when a lady complimented my jeans, and said they looked cute, my mom yelled out "They're *boys* jeans, I can't stand when she wears them!!" Well boy's jeans don't always have to look boyish, I like pairing them with girlyish cute flip flops (okay, they're not that girly, they're plain flip flops with decorative stitching) and a cute "tomboy fit" t-shirt. I certainly look like a girl still!! I'm sure if I told my parents "I want to be a boy" they would be like "No, you can't be, that's silly, you were always such a cute girl, bla bla bla. You're a girl, you've always been a girl, and you will always be a girl. You're not a boy, maybe it's a phase, maybe you're just a lesbian" I don't think they would really like the idea, maybe accept it, doubt it though, but I don't think they would ever believe it. My family knows I do like men. My mom has blatantly asked me "Are you a lesbian" though, because I wasn't dating anyone for a very long time, so she thought maybe I was hiding being a lesbian. I've never told them "I like men and women, I'm bisexual/pansexual" or any of that, because I don't think it's an issue. It doesn't define who I am at all, I'm me that's all there is to it. I don't need any sort of therapy to get over it or accept it or anything. I'm fine with it. It is what it is. I don't fall in love with a certain gender body, or the body at all, I fall in love with the soul, the real person deep down inside. Afterwards I "love the body" because it is their body, seeing an individual's body reminds me of who they are inside, so when I think "Wow, so and so has really nice eyes" it's not necessarily because "OMG I love their eyes" it's because those are the eyes that belong to that soul. I know, I started rambling, and it prolly didn't make much sense, haha.. Kinda like.. "I don't like you because of your eyes, I like your eyes because of you." maybe that makes it a bit more clear??

ANYWAY, I've rambled on enough and probably made you all think I'm insane, maybe I am... Who knows! I just feel SO confused and lost and so on and so forth, maybe this was the right place to come, maybe I don't really fit in here at all, but maybe there are others out there that feel the same that I do.. maybe.. small chance but maybe.. LOL

If you've made it this far, I give you a pat on the back and an aspirin, as you probably have a headache by now!


~Amy
  •  

Cadence Jean

Hey, Amy!  I just wanted to make a comment.  The following passage stood out to me:

QuoteAnd, it's not like I always want to be a boy, sometimes I'm perfectly happy being a girl, but when I'm not, I really badly want to be a boy. There's very little in between. I just don't know. I think if I had been born a boy I would be happy being a boy all the time, I never have any feeling like "I really want to be seen as a girl" but maybe because I was born a girl, sometimes I just suck it up and go with it. I'm so lost..

I think I can relate to what you're saying.  Only I was born with a male body and a feminine soul.  Some days I wake up and the feminine is so strong in me - I want to throw on a dress, do up my makeup and nails, go shopping with a girlfriend, and strut my stuff!  At this stage in my journey, I'm not ready to actuallize that, but I wonder if some transgirls feel that way every single day.  And that maybe they're the ones who absolutely hate their bodies and want to go all the way with GRS.  For me, I'm not happy with my body, I feel disconnected from it, and I can manage the disgust by shaving and not building muscle mass.  I could put up with it if I had to, but I feel like it doesn't really express me.  Some days I wonder if I'm deluding myself - that maybe it's some bizarre fantasy or "the grass is greener" sort of thing.  But I know that now that I've begun to explore the feminine aspect of my personality, that's really who I am and that's really how my persona needs to be expressed for me to experience life as it was intended for me.  I do know that I never wake up and feel like, "I'm gunna down a case of beer, and play hockey, and walk around showing off my hairy chest and legs!"  Many days I'm indifferent to my body.  But I'm starting to feel that femininity more and more as I progress and expose more and more of it to myself and those close to me.

Just wanted you to know that you're not the only one confused by their dilemma!:)
to make more better goodness

I have returned to recording on TransByDef!  Watch us at: https://www.youtube.com/TransByDef
  •  

gennee

Hi and welcome. In time you'll sort things out. Some things will fall into place.

Gennee

:)
Be who you are.
Make a difference by being a difference.   :)

Blog: www.difecta.blogspot.com
  •  

colormyworld

I do sometimes wonder if maybe it's just the "grass is greener" thing, but I just don't know.. I'm quite happy in the way that I express myself, and I don't feel like I have to really hide that part, I'm not overly feminine or overly masculine and I like it that way! My 'boy side' and my 'girl side' are not that outwardly different (at least I don't think so.. who knows what others think! haha) The problem is, sooo much of the time, I just want to be male bodied, and instead of being seen as GIRL doing all the things I do now, I want to be seen as a BOY doing all the things I do now! I know it's uber confusing, but it's hard to try to explain the way you *feel* inside, KWIM?

I never have feelings like "I want to be super girly and I love my girly body" but more like "I'm feeling kinda girly, but I really wish a was a girly guy!" 

I think I was destine to be a gender bender either way, I'd just really rather be a male bodied gender bender! haha

Ut oh! The man with the big huggy jacket is coming again.. gotta run! LOL  :laugh:
  •  

Cadence Jean

Quote from: colormyworld on September 06, 2009, 11:09:05 PM
I never have feelings like "I want to be super girly and I love my girly body" but more like "I'm feeling kinda girly, but I really wish a was a girly guy!" 

Since I AM a girly guy, maybe we should just trade bodies and then we'd both be set.:P  I definitely feel limited as to how I can express myself with this masculine body.  I think it's easier for FtM to express their masculinity because a woman expressing masculine traits is more readily accepted by society.  That might be why there are less FtM's reported than MtF's.

I can certainly relate to your predicament - you nailed it with the "want to do what you do now, but do it as a male(female, in my case).  Maybe others further into transition can weigh in on this one.  But I'm coming to an understanding with myself that that's what I want too.  I want to be ME.  I don't want to be specifically female or male, I want to be ME.  Society is what labels us male or female depending on our personality/physical traits.  That's where it gets confusing for me - what do I want, versus what I think society expects from me!  I've always been conscientious about other people and authority before myself anyway though.
to make more better goodness

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  •  

colormyworld

When someone makes it possible to switch brains between two bodies, I'll be one of the first people in line! haha

I do agree that it's more acceptable for women to dress as men, and I'm grateful that I can sort of slip under the radar while wearing men's clothes (aside from the occasional comment from my mother telling me I need to stop wearing 'boy clothes' and dress like a girl.. grr) It's overall acceptable for me to wear whatever I want, but at the same time, I'm not seen how I want to be seen, I'd rather be seen as an in between GUY, than an in between GIRL, and that's the hardest part for me.

I know in my head what I want, and how I want to look, etc. but my problem is I don't know if I can truly achieve what I really WANT through transition. I see so many people on here that are sooo much happier after they've started transition, but I'm not sure if that's what will make ME happy. I feel like what I want, I will never be able to achieve.

I feel I'll never be seen as the man I want to be seen as, so I might as well suck it up and be seen as a woman anyway. Sometimes that's fine, sometimes I *can* suck it up and accept that I look like a girl, but when I can't, I just feel horrible and disgusted by my appearance!
  •  

Cadence Jean

QuoteI feel I'll never be seen as the man I want to be seen as, so I might as well suck it up and be seen as a woman anyway. Sometimes that's fine, sometimes I *can* suck it up and accept that I look like a girl, but when I can't, I just feel horrible and disgusted by my appearance!

They're doing miracles with plastic surgery now-a-days.:)  If you're not seeing a therapist, I would highly recommend it.  They can address some of these concerns.  I doubt I will ever be the woman I want to be seen as - I think it's particularly tough for MtF because not only do they need to cross the gender boundary, they also need to cross that female ideal boundary.  Or learn to live without achieving it, like most genetic women do.  I don't think men have as much pressure to conform to the "masculine ideal".  Is there a particular ideal that you're striving for?
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  •  

colormyworld

Quote from: calliope on September 08, 2009, 08:31:07 PM
Is there a particular ideal that you're striving for?

I really don't even know right now.. right now I feel completely fine being a girl. I don't feel girly and I don't think I look girly, but I feel fine how I am, and that happens to be a girl. Meh.. Right now I can't even think of how I would ideally like to be perceived as a boy.

I would have a much easier time if I actually knew what I wanted and I had something to strive for instead of going from extremely depressed about myself and wanting to be seen as just a normal boy, to being fine with being a girl and not giving anything a second thought. If I could only get myself all on the same page.. LOL Right now I just feel like a normal girl and couldn't care less if I was male, female, or an elephant for that matter. I'm just ME, nothing more, nothing less..

I do realize that I have to find a therapist, I see someone about my generalized anxiety already and she's always telling me I need to find a therapist, what can I say, I'm a problem child! haha I'm not sure if it would be the same kind of therapist or whatever, but I do know that I have to look into therapists in general! Oy! Maybe I should just bring this up with the psychologist next time, who knows maybe this is contributing to my anxiety? I unno.. but maybe she can recommend someone that I should see.



Ugh, now I've just read this all through again and I've realized that I ramble on like crazy, not sure if this even makes sense or not!
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Cadence Jean

Quote from: colormyworld on September 09, 2009, 11:09:19 AM
Ugh, now I've just read this all through again and I've realized that I ramble on like crazy, not sure if this even makes sense or not!

Ha - isn't that part of the point of these boards, though?  Get it out in typing so you can make sense of it?  I find things start to make more sense if I can get them out of my head and into words - spoken or written.  There's something about structuring them that makes things start to line up for me.

I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of what you're saying.  Sounds like your pendulum swings between two extremes.  Maybe it has to do with your hormones ebbing and flowing, who knows?  I've wondered that about myself - if maybe my testosterone dips and I feel femme or what.  Seems unlikely, but it is sure strange how strong I can feel it one day and then the next day, it's like, "Whatever.  I don't want to tack this on top of the ->-bleeped-<-ty day I'm already having."  Now it's my turn to question if I'm making any sense!:P  I'm so burnt out - I had such a crap afternoon/evening.  Some times I wonder if it's depression sapping everything out of me.  Maybe if I didn't have the depression, maybe if I felt connected with this body and reality, I might be more inclined to feel SOMETHING - femininity, or desperation at my situation, or whatever.  Things seems so god-damn muted most of the time.

Have you tried journaling?  I've started journaling, just to keep track of all these thoughts.  My hope is that, after a while, I can look back and start to see some pattern to it all.  I don't know - the human psyche is so complex, it can be so difficult to see the trends in it.  I don't know how psychologists do it!

BTW, even if you don't think you're making any sense, I still like chatting with you, Amy.:)
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Nero

Quote from: colormyworld on September 06, 2009, 11:09:05 PM

I never have feelings like "I want to be super girly and I love my girly body" but more like "I'm feeling kinda girly, but I really wish a was a girly guy!" 

I think I was destine to be a gender bender either way, I'd just really rather be a male bodied gender bender! haha


Hi Amy,

This part stuck out at me. If you don't feel male, why would you rather be a gender bending guy than girl? I've heard other androgynes say similar things. Is it because a girly guy is seen as more subversive or trangressive, or modern, etc than a guyish girl?

anyhow, welcome to the androgyne camp!
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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colormyworld

Quote from: Nero on September 09, 2009, 09:40:42 PM
Hi Amy,

This part stuck out at me. If you don't feel male, why would you rather be a gender bending guy than girl? I've heard other androgynes say similar things. Is it because a girly guy is seen as more subversive or trangressive, or modern, etc than a guyish girl?

anyhow, welcome to the androgyne camp!

I'm not really sure how to explain it, I don't really understand it myself to be honest... It's just that sometimes it really bothers me to be seen as a female, I don't feel comfortable with the way my clothes are fitting my body (even if they are female clothes and supposedly "made to fit my body type") Those are the times when I just really wish I was a guy.

BUT, on the other hand, sometimes it doesn't even phase me and it's just like "Yeah whatever, I am what I am, I'm a girl, that's just the way it is" and it's not like I absolutely love being a girl, it's just that I'm okay with it. Like I never actually have the desire to want to be absolutely girly and show off these stupid curves, but I do get the desire to be able to wear whatever I feel like and be seen as a male.

It's not about wanting to be modern or trendy or anything, it's about me being comfortable being myself, it's about looking in a mirror and not being disgusted by yourself half of the time.


Who knows, maybe if I was born male bodied, I'd have the same problem, only in reverse, but I don't have experience with that, so I'm going by what I do know. Even when I was younger, I didn't want to grow up to look like a woman, I wanted to grow up to look like a guy. I was raised being able to wear whatever I wanted, as long as it wasn't indecent (like obviously I always had to wear a shirt because of social norms) but I was fine with that. If I wanted to wear a dress, I could, if I wanted to wear a nascar outfit I could, so clothes were never an issue for me. I don't know if it would be any different if I was a boy, as it's more socially acceptable for girls to wear boy's clothes, there's probably a good chance that my family wouldn't have been as accepting of their son wanting to wear dresses, but who knows! My little brother DID have a barbie of his own, and there was a time when his favorite color was pink, and nobody ever had a problem with letting him have pink whatever. The pink phase didn't last long and he moved on to RED everything, haha and he is definitely ALL BOY, so I don't think it did any harm or influence! haha

heh, sorry about my rambling on..
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Cadence Jean

Quote from: colormyworld on September 11, 2009, 10:03:16 PM
BUT, on the other hand, sometimes it doesn't even phase me and it's just like "Yeah whatever, I am what I am, I'm a girl, that's just the way it is" and it's not like I absolutely love being a girl, it's just that I'm okay with it. Like I never actually have the desire to want to be absolutely girly and show off these stupid curves, but I do get the desire to be able to wear whatever I feel like and be seen as a male.

It's not about wanting to be modern or trendy or anything, it's about me being comfortable being myself, it's about looking in a mirror and not being disgusted by yourself half of the time.

I think many of the people here can relate to this.  Maybe you fall in the androgyny camp.  I often think that's where I belong too - but I don't want to be an androgynous guy, I want to be an androgynous GIRL.  I am a fairly androgynous guy, and I don't feel a connection with this body - it isn't really me.  Kind of like what you said, I've wondered if I was born in the a body that matched my soul(a feminine body), then would I ever have a desire to express myself as a male - would I still have the same issues, only reversed?  I highly doubt it.  I don't think it's a "I just don't like me, and want to try whatever I can to get away from me" sort of thing.  I honestly believe, and have recognized for several years now, that I have a feminine soul.  And for me, changing the physical representation of myself to match that soul is about expression of my being.  I am limited to the masculine with this body.  I cannot experience the feminine as my soul craves to - I want people to recognize me as female, I want to be in a lesbian relationship and feel that feminine love like only two women can share, I want to walk down the street with my dress swaying and my heels clapping, I want to be divided into the female group rather than the male group when people talk about sex and gender, I want people to react to me as a female and not expect me to be gruff or competitive or dominating or a chauvinist, ad nauseum.

So, I can type these things, but at the same time, there's a part of me that says, "Calli, you can imagine these things, but you don't know what they're like until you actual do them.  Maybe what you want is how you imagine them to be and not what they really are."  I am a little afraid of buyer's remorse.  Maybe I'll post a separate topic on that one and get some of the other girls' feedback, because it seems like a valid concern for me.

So, anyway, I think what I was stabbing at was - how do you feel in your soul, Amy?  OR, if you don't believe in the soul, how do you think your psyche is structured?  How do you want that soul/psyche presented to the world?  How do you want the world to interact with you?
to make more better goodness

I have returned to recording on TransByDef!  Watch us at: https://www.youtube.com/TransByDef
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